The sheer amount of mobility isnt the problem in this game and riot gets it what is the problem it that riot does not know how to actualy tax those champions for the power they have because mobility is something hard to actualy count
my personal opinion is that riot will slowly fix it as they gain experience on handling the mobility
5G8Nri0B5418 votesMy optimistic side says they eventually will...but my realistic side reminded me that we've been telling them about this for years and just recently they released 
Teridax686 votesI think Rek'Sai's mobility is pretty well-gated, though. Sure, on one hand she can go from one end of the map to the other in the space of three seconds, then dash another eight times in a row, but her gapcloser is fairly slow, and requires advance placement if she wants to dash more than once. The closer she places her tunnels to the action, the higher the risk of them getting destroyed, and even with those she can still be kited pretty well. Her gaplosers aren't just free mobility on top of a strong kit: she needs to use her mobility in order to function in most fights, and she needs to use it more intelligently than your average champion.
killd0zer1 votesRek'Sai is gated from having ungodly mobility to only having strong mobility. She honestly doesn't really pay for it that much.
5G8Nri0B541 votesSo what exactly does she pay for that kind of mobility? The lack of an impactful teamfight ultimate?
Teridax682 votesSort of, since 60% bonus attack speed doesn't quite cut it compared to most other ults, but her most important weakness is that she needs to be at point-blank range to deal the bulk of her damage (i.e. everything except her burrowed Q, which doesn't really scale with the rest of her abilities). Whereas most fighters have tools to hold their targets in place, quickly reach them or burst them down with spells, Rek'Sai's knockup requires her to already be within attacking range, and doesn't let her hold her victims down for the most part as she kills them. Her damage is primarily autoattack-based, and her nuke reaches maximum potential only after she autoattacks for a bit.
Unlike other mobile bruisers like 
, 
or 
, who can all quickly reach their target, lock them down and unleash their full combo within a short window of time, Rek'Sai's gapcloser+knockup combo still gives her target the opportunity to run away, particularly as she isn't very mobile while unburrowed. Her mobility, crowd control, poke and sustain are all separate from her primary fighting power, so she never has all of her tools at her disposal at the same time.
acepil0t4 votesMy optimistic side says yes......
Real life says 
FU balance.
Knight SoIaire 4 votesrito says we will rework him but we have more important reworks in making (i wont find the post right now cause im lazty but they said it)
Ariel the Cruel4 votesWe're well aware that he's on the list.
They have to get through the other 180 reworks on their list first.
Knight SoIaire 2 votesbecause they fked up loads of times in the past and they fix it
what did hurt them the most till now was forcibly making champions just for the sake of releasing them often so now they have to rework most of their champion pool to make it even unique and stop spinning the fotm wheel
for the ppl who dont know what i mean by fotm wheel - if we have very similar champions and one gets buffed he usualy rocks the rest out since they dont compete anything that the buffed one wouldnt
Ariel the Cruel2 votesI get the sense My joke didn't quite land. :/
manbearswine2 votesI think you meant 
and
VDc0zCqe0w1 votesRek(t)' Sai mobility is ok since she sacrifies her ult to have it
too bad she oneshots people with a single offensive item and full tank
paShadoWn3 votesYep. Like they handled the dodge. And Locket. And recently Impaler.
Knight SoIaire 2 votesimpaler had no place in this game since crit is tampered to be an adc only stat
i dunno what was wrong with locket ?
but mobility can be tackled with in many ways like distance covered, speed of dash, capability to go through obstacles, cooldowns, whether its targeted onto ppl or onto ground
this stuff allows riot to contain it (but they cant just do everything perfectly from the start not to mention that they are kinda pioniers in this way of ballancing games, so it wrecks em even harder)
proper statement of problems and compiling the ways to resolve them is indeed a good way to help riot but what this community does is just shouting that they want riot to fix it (which discourages them from talking with us and then we get cassiopea)
the Anarchit3cht4 votesRiot ignore the average player because all they care about is Esports. if you're looking for a company that cares about their players you're about 3 seasons too late.
Knight SoIaire 5 votesthey cant do everything at once cassio rework got failed so hard because riot wanted to release it with the shurima patch so they hastenned their ppl
if you start compiling the stuff that they have to do like -reworking taric due to being insanely old and not fitting the game -reworking urgor for the same reason -reworking fiora due to riot knowing what they expect from her and how they can archieve it to make her healthier -reworking gp for the same reason -checking if the game is at least medicorely ballanced -fixing kalista -makign all assasins healthyy again
sorry man but i can make this list couple of pages long and all that community does is crying that its not finished yet or they dont like the results
you are as angry as i am because this game has potential but imagine the amount of work it needs to actualy archieve it
the Anarchit3cht3 votesYou have literally 0 basis for all these statements that you're making. The only champion in your list that I can actually agree with that needs a rework is Urgot. And it has nothing to do with him "not fitting the game" but rather because his kit is very strong when the numbers are high and very weak when they aren't. Believe it or not, Urgot used to destroy everything in his path and not look back once.
I can make a list a couple pages long too, but that doesn't mean my list is correct or actually has any meaning. That is also entirely irrelevant. It's their JOB at Riot to balance champions/rework them etc. If you're telling me that they don't have enough time to their job.... then you're insane. If they gave me access I could literally fix all the champs in less than a week.
Actin3 votesRiot Games (or Tencent if you will) generated over a billion in revenue this year, and over 60 million last year.
They can afford to hire more than 4 people for each of their actual game development divisions.
Penguin Eclipse1 votes[{quoted}](name=Hagane No Arashi,realm=EUNE,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=tRLLIcwQ,comment-id=0000000000000000,timestamp=2014-12-27T20:03:54.309+0000)
they cant do everything at once cassio rework got failed so hard because riot wanted to release it with the shurima patch so they hastenned their ppl
if you start compiling the stuff that they have to do like -reworking taric due to being insanely old and not fitting the game -reworking urgor for the same reason -reworking fiora due to riot knowing what they expect from her and how they can archieve it to make her healthier -reworking gp for the same reason -checking if the game is at least medicorely ballanced -fixing kalista -makign all assasins healthyy again
sorry man but i can make this list couple of pages long and all that community does is crying that its not finished yet or they dont like the results
you are as angry as i am because this game has potential but imagine the amount of work it needs to actualy archieve it
That's really not why the Cass rework failed. Cass failed because the person in charge of reworking her marches to the tune of his own drum.
Knight SoIaire 1 votesi wouldnt say so riot some time ago sai that they dont lack numerical passives because they dont bring anything interesting to the game
yet cassio arrived with such a passive
i consider this a proof that she was simply rushed because shurima patch came so riot went full easy mode on her and wel prolly get a second rework soon (since their buffs and nerfs to her suck ballz imo)
LupusNox1 votescrit wasn't an adc only stat
I can't tell you how many teamfights or 1v1s I should have lost as a bruiser like Irelia, Nasus or Xin, but because I was running 2% crit chance and built triforce, I won the fight when I had no business killing them at all
Frikgeek1 votes[{quoted}](name=Hagane No Arashi,realm=EUNE,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=tRLLIcwQ,comment-id=00000000,timestamp=2014-12-27T19:38:26.080+0000) i dunno what was wrong with locket ?
Innervating locket, Not Locket of the Iron Solari. It got removed 4 years ago.
ImpendingDeath2 votesIt's been a problem for a while. Riot acknowledged the problem a year ago, yet still continues to release hyper-mobile champions with few drawbacks. I have yet to see any sincere effort to balance champions properly for their mobility.
Martyrofsand4 votesIt's been a problem for a while. Riot acknowledged the problem a year ago, yet still continues to release hyper-mobile champions with few drawbacks. I have yet to see any sincere effort to balance champions properly for their mobility.
That is because there is no balancing a champion with the mobility of Yasuo/Kalista/Lee/Kha/etc. They will always be toxic due to their inability to be balanced resulting in them being either to strong or flat out weak. There is no in between when you have the amount of mobility these champs have.
HandheldBrandon1 votesThat is because there is no balancing a champion with the mobility of Yasuo/Kalista/Lee/Kha/etc. They will always be toxic due to their inability to be balanced resulting in them being either to strong or flat out weak. There is no in between when you have the amount of mobility these champs have.
I have to Disagree slightly.
Kalista's Mobility to me is fine because her early game and attack animations suffer for that mobility until she gets decent items to counteract them which is perfectly fine in my book.
Yasuo however is not. He is quite possibly the biggest contradiction to every Riot design they have ever mention.
Tons of free stats Hyper Mobility Low cooldown abilities Zero resource management. Hyper power spike with 1 item. Hyper carry late game. Defense Mitigation
His only true weakness is that his early game kinda sucks but as soon as he gets Statikk Shiv he does a complete 180 and has a massive power spike no matter how bad he was doing.
Lee is a different story.
Hes a problem because his kit does everything albeit not as strongly as Yasuo.
Mobility. CC. Sustain.
Lee has it all but he can at least be dealt with.
I dont even see a Khazix as a problem.
IMO Yasuo is a the biggest offender of Riots Design Philosophy in that everything Yasuo does he is light years ahead of all his peers in every category of Melee ADCs.
If you built Xin and Yasuo with the same build for example. Yasuo would win everysingle time.
Knight SoIaire 1 voteslack of those drawbacks is exactly the problem and i wonder how will they fix it
Spacesuit Spiff2 votesI feel like Kali was a step in the right direction, since she doesn't do as much damage as she could. With the previous rise of Tris, hopefully Riot won't let mobility get so out of control again.
kijik1 votesSomething something rend. Something Infinity Edge.
manbearswine1 votesI feel like Kali was a step in the right direction, since she doesn't do as much damage as she could. With the previous rise of Tris, hopefully Riot won't let mobility get so out of control again.
you don't get it,Kalista will most certainly exacerbate the problem,because send her against say sona/nami+corki/lucian/graves and they will just destroy her in lane,that's why she has buffs underway,the moment she is able to stand up to these bullies(and that moment will come,certaintlyT loves his cancer and she won't be competitivly viable until she can stand up to them),is also the moment where her tradeoffs will be gone,and I can guarantee you,the moment that cancerous piece of shit starts seeing notable competitive pickrate->100% banrate in solo q.
Kalista only seems to be a step in the right direction because she is considered garbage.
Knight SoIaire 1 votesdepends on the buffs
if lets sa her q will get the buffs to cd and dmg she still wont take a face to face fight with them but will have a tool to actualy be relevant while mobile guys will dodge her spears with ease (actualy immobile ones do it too) if they buff her hp then its its just like you said
there are loads of ways to fix this (i hope that riot wont go full retard)
manbearswine1 votes[{quoted}](name=Hagane No Arashi,realm=EUNE,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=tRLLIcwQ,comment-id=000200010000,timestamp=2014-12-28T12:49:03.148+0000)
depends on the buffs
if lets sa her q will get the buffs to cd and dmg she still wont take a face to face fight with them but will have a tool to actualy be relevant while mobile guys will dodge her spears with ease (actualy immobile ones do it too) if they buff her hp then its its just like you said
there are loads of ways to fix this (i hope that riot wont go full retard)
there actually aren't,she shares her cancerous nature with yasuo. just play kalista,most of the time you'll do poorly due to her being supposedly underpowered,but once you get good with her,and manage to do well in a(specific) game,just go ahead and ask your opponents what they think of her kit.
she is crazy obnoxious,kites like hell,chases even harder,either she dies herself or she kills everyone,very hard to catch and very hard to get away from,all the while being extremely mobile,there is no right way to buff her(maybe if you nerf her first,her q really shouldnt proc her passive),her mobility is too cancerous alone that it doesn't matter through what mechanics she becomes viable,she will always be horrible for this game.
Knight SoIaire 1 votesand manage to do well in a(specific) game,just go ahead and ask your opponents what they think of her kit.
i had loads of games with kalista when i went like 10/0 and such
then a random yi or trynda zed whatever came to me and oneshoted me like i dont exist (these bastards werent even fed)
also your post is totaly unobjective i suppose all that ou say is that kalista is op and everything abouut her is bad
and im preety sure i know why you are so mad on mobile champions
as ballance actualy stands mobile characters turn out to have similar stats to the unmobile ones meanign that immobile champions get straight out rekt
from that perspective any form or good mobility is 100% cancer
but it can all be tinkered with by riot easily to the point where there are merits of picking both mobile champs and immobile champs
manbearswine1 votes[{quoted}](name=Hagane No Arashi,realm=EUNE,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=tRLLIcwQ,comment-id=00020001000000000000,timestamp=2014-12-28T18:15:03.854+0000)
i had loads of games with kalista when i went like 10/0 and such
then a random yi or trynda zed whatever came to me and oneshoted me like i dont exist (these bastards werent even fed)
so you got killed by other hyper mobile or cancerous champs? that's kind of the point of the mobility meta,fight mobility with mobility.
also your post is totaly unobjective i suppose
it sorta is,my only incentive to hate mobile abominations is because they are stupid,nobody is bribing me to do so.
all that ou say is that kalista is op and everything abouut her is bad
no,I say that her design is horrible due to her cacerous passive,the rest is fine,I also by no means said she was op,and if anything said the opposite.
and im preety sure i know why you are so mad on mobile champions
as ballance actualy stands mobile characters turn out to have similar stats to the unmobile ones meanign that immobile champions get straight out rekt
well yes,and no.
from that perspective any form or good mobility is 100% cancer
it's not that simple. for example,as far as adcs go(aside from kalista and vayne,both of which I consider cancerous(NOT op)) their mobility is mostly fine.
but it can all be tinkered with by riot easily to the point where there are merits of picking both mobile champs and immobile champs
It's not that simple,take for example syndra and xerath,the only immobile mages who work now,their kits are kind of BS(for syndra even morrelo I think addmitted to it).
Think about it this way,how can i possibly make lux able to lane vs yasuo? It's not just about mobility,the more you are reliant on skillshots the champion is the more screwed he is by mobility,in contrast annie,another immobile mage can be balanced to deal with yasuo,for her it really is just him being more mobile,for lux it's the potential to easily ignore her entire kit.
Knight SoIaire 1 votesThink about it this way,how can i possibly make lux able to lane vs yasuo? It's not just about mobility,the more you are reliant on skillshots the champion is the more screwed he is by mobility,in contrast annie,another immobile mage can be balanced to deal with yasuo,for her it really is just him being more mobile,for lux it's the potential to easily ignore her entire kit.
so how can we ballance the fight beetwen yasuo and lux ?
probably by making her q wider
but as you said before its not so simple hence we leave it to riot
manbearswine1 votes[{quoted}](name=Hagane No Arashi,realm=EUNE,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=tRLLIcwQ,comment-id=0002000100000000000000000000,timestamp=2014-12-28T20:38:30.589+0000)
so how can we ballance the fight beetwen yasuo and lux ?
probably by making her q wider
but as you said before its not so simple hence we leave it to riot
the only way is to turn lux into xerath,with more reliable and longer range poke and waveclear,killing her identity.
lux current identity lies in landing rather unreliable skillshots,there is simply no way to balance her around yasuo without making her stomp everything without his mobility,he is just too faceroll of a hard counter-that's the problem with mobility creep,there is no easy fix,and abominations like yasuo and kalista take it to the next level,lux-zed was very hard to balance,lux-yasuo is impossible.
Knight SoIaire 1 votesyeah butat the same time we have mobile champions who straight out do more than her
hurts but its bearable
Kowe The Ewok2 votesJust look at Zed. He has been around for ages, yet he is allowed to 100-0 enemies while being able to instantly port back a whole screen length afterwards.
A champion with so much burst, DPS and raw power should not be able to get out like that. Not to mention that his kit features invincibility. I mean - even Akali at least has to select a target to jump away. Hell, he doesn't even mana to limit his power.
MetalGearTeemu6 votes[{quoted}](name=Kowe The Ewok,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=tRLLIcwQ,comment-id=0007,timestamp=2014-12-28T02:37:35.605+0000)
Just look at Zed. He has been around for ages, yet he is allowed to 100-0 enemies while being able to instantly port back a whole screen length afterwards.
A champion with so much burst, DPS and raw power should not be able to get out like that. Not to mention that his kit features invincibility. I mean - even Akali at least has to select a target to jump away. Hell, he doesn't even mana to limit his power.
the real problem with Zed is the fact that he lanes extremely safely, and pushes extremely fast and relentlessly thanks to his aoe damage and energy resource.
You simply do not have a good enough window to shut him down in the early game.
nednugget2 votesUmmm what is mobility creep?
LupusNox1 votesIMO, it doesn't matter how much they tax a ranged champs mobility, if they have decent range and their mobility is super safe, then they can always just build 
and dominate because their power comes through items and their range, as opposed to power that Riot actually put in their kit
Knight SoIaire 1 votesthen they can give them yasuo treatment (reduced crit dmg)
there are ways (but they dont know them yet)
kijik1 votesBecause that was clearly effective in keeping yasuo from being OP ever. Right?
manbearswine1 votes[{quoted}](name=Hagane No Arashi,realm=EUNE,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=tRLLIcwQ,comment-id=,timestamp=2014-12-27T18:52:59.719+0000)
The sheer amount of mobility isnt the problem in this game and riot gets it what is the problem it that riot does not know how to actualy tax those champions for the power they have because mobility is something hard to actualy count
my personal opinion is that riot will slowly fix it as they gain experience on handling the mobility
that's not it,the problem is that for the most part,mobility isn't as strong in lane as it is out of it,whereas for junglers it is too crucial to have it in order to gank successfully.(well,unless you can somehow do a ranged gank,like skraner and tf sorta do,so it's actually not THAT important on them)
It's not only that,some champions are affected much more by mobility than others,for annie mobility is simply mobility,for lux it's the potential to easily avoid her entire kit.
What eventually happens,is aside from just straight up avoiding champions like lux,who just do nothing if they can't hit their skillshots,you get things which are equal in power in lane(more or less),but are at a massive advantage the moment laning phase ends/they roam/either jungler comes(as they are easier to gank for and harder to gank)
Learnding1 votesLearn as they go on, ha, hah, hahahha, hahahahahahahhhahahaahahahahahahahahahahahaahaahahahhha!!!
Riot hasn't changed since Season 2 at all. All they do is slap on some cool graphics, ignore the player-base and make a new champion with bugs to cover up for their other fuck ups. "Hey guys we're really trying to give back to the community".
-Takes Riot 3 years to make 1 game mode about Bots
-Takes Riot a week to make a champion
Xengre1 votes[{quoted}](name=Hagane No Arashi,realm=EUNE,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=tRLLIcwQ,comment-id=,timestamp=2014-12-27T18:52:59.719+0000)
The sheer amount of mobility isnt the problem in this game and riot gets it what is the problem it that riot does not know how to actualy tax those champions for the power they have because mobility is something hard to actualy count
my personal opinion is that riot will slowly fix it as they gain experience on handling the mobility
No, mobility certainly is the problem.
Issues due to mobility creep:
A large roster of champions who suffer severely against certain champs or prominent champs because they are simply too mobile and thus either lack luster or simply not realistically competitive.
A large chunk of the melee crowd is forced out of any form of serious viability due to their difficulty dealing with mobility creep and in the most extreme cases are completely shut down (can't catch Lucian, Tristana's dominance, Ahri in the past, Ezreal in the past, Nidalee/Gragas/Riven in the past) and Riot simply tries to balance for it then truly dealing with the problem (see Gragas/Nidalee).
Some champions like Galio/Mordekaiser just aren't seen as realistically viable due to the sheer amount of mobility when combined with other concerns, nail in the coffin.
Then you have mobile ranged ADCs becoming and ultra safe ADCs (be it dashes and other forms of mobility, heal/barrier, etc.).
There is also the issue of flash being, in effect mandatory for all but maybe 2-3 champions in the entire game and the only summoner spell to hold this status in League (bar a brief period cleanse held this position for a number of champions with its CC immunity period). In fact, flash has held this spot since its introduction and this is after it lost its across screen range years ago. This locks out summoner diversity and summoners like ghost almost entirely. It also creates some ugly game design, champion design, and many other problems.
Lastly, there are hyper problematic champs that already are strong in other areas but also have fairly extreme mobility that just makes them top tier and other similar champs, in effect, largely obsolete be it in past situations and since nerfed/changed or present and eventually future: Ezreal (particularly blue), Nidalee, Gragas, Riven, Lucian, Tristana, Lee Sin, Leblanc, Kassadin, Fizz, Ahri, and Evelynn just to name some of the most problematic with regards to mobility creep.
I'm barely scratching the surface of the problem, too.
Knight SoIaire 1 votesmy personal opinion is that most of those can be fixed by taxing the mobility better
in most cases you speak about champions being both powerfull offensively and mobile for me it sounds like you hate the fact that champions with simply more overall power are better than the ones with less
as annoying as it is i think its fixable
Xengre1 votes[{quoted}](name=Hagane No Arashi,realm=EUNE,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=tRLLIcwQ,comment-id=000a0000,timestamp=2014-12-28T12:52:28.979+0000)
my personal opinion is that most of those can be fixed by taxing the mobility better
in most cases you speak about champions being both powerfull offensively and mobile for me it sounds like you hate the fact that champions with simply more overall power are better than the ones with less
as annoying as it is i think its fixable
No, I don't hate it but its a problem because its simply crowding out what would otherwise be alright champions with champions who do the same thing but simply much better making any other pick a handicap. You can tax it better to band-aid fix it and this is the approach Riot has been trying to take, but it is no cure-all as it still puts melees and some other champions in a hot spot and also still leaves the issue of Flash which will probably never be taxable to a reasonable degree for what it offers. The ability to traverse through walls when a large chunk of the champion roster can not also do this, and the ability to do so multiple times in a short period, are also pretty significant. In order to really handle mobility creep Riot has had to repeatedly release stronger mobility in champions or make other aspects of champions overwhelming or both. Unfortunately, they have dug the hole so deep that actually doing a real fix would require such an immense design work over that I doubt it will ever happen. At the very least, band-aid fixes/taxing can bring champs like Nidalee and Lucian into a more manageable point even if the core issue still very much exists and is left unsolved. They have also slowed the rate of champion releases so its not spiraling out of control as fast at this point.
CharQueen1 votesI too think that Riot will slowly fix this. I appreciate their effort.
I say this in the comments and wanted to comment on it:
Riot Games (or Tencent if you will) generated over a billion in revenue this year, and over 60 million last year.
They can afford to hire more than 4 people for each of their actual game development divisions.
Less is often so much more in the gaming industry. Especially for a nurtured product such as League of Legends. All I can say about hiring more cooks for the kitchen is... Tomb Raider 6, Final Fantasy 13, Sly Cooper 4.
It may sound great to have new content made faster, but you're going to end up with the same products that EA published and Ubisoft develops. Content made faster is not content made better.
And if Riot decides to become some ungodly corporation...I'll be ready to 
before another beloved is tainted.
Epicusmaximo1 votesHonestly just hope Blizzard releases Heroes of the STorm soon. Let's be honest
Blizzards quality of life changes are vastly superior, for instance look at no red side mirror in league. Blizzards networking is vastly superior, kind of speaks for itself, their shit works. Blizzards community relations are vastly superior, they just keep you in the loop on EVERYTHING. Blizzard has decades of balancing RTS and PvP games, and has finally understood themselves the the mobility AND ranged tax needs to exist.
All in all, I love League of Legends, and Riot seems like a cool company and all, but I'm sick of the lack of quality of life like no mirrored red side, no match replays, the lag, the horrible loading system, I can go on and on, but I really hope Riot steps up their game, because a storm is coming. No pun intended.
Lt Cuddles1 votes
All of these have been helping to some extent, and riot is making more items and changes to mitigate this issue.