Whats the last time an adc had 40% banrate?

MunchCrunchLunch·Dec 15, 2016·34 votes·2,154 views

Vayne sitting at over 40% banrate currently. she isn't a healthy champion. either too overwhealming or too weak in lane to be relevant.

62 Comments

Nathaniell1Dec 15, 20164 votes

People will ban her even if she is balanced, cause she is strong ADC who is also excelent tank shreder.. and you dont want that in CotC meta :D

MunchCrunchLunchDec 15, 201613 votes

nobody banned her before becauseh er playrate was low as hell.

vayne is unhealthy by design because if circumstances permits she outplays you and there is nothing you could have done to prevented that outplay. basically you can't outplay her back.

RalanrDec 15, 20165 votes

Sounds like a lot of "high outplay potential" champions to be honest.

Troll for TrumpDec 16, 20161 votes

Pretty much.

Yes, they do have counterplay in their kits, but, because of reasons(overloaded kits, too much mobility, safety nets, etc.) they can just circumvent their weaknesses and counterplay. And, because most champs' kits are a tier below the lvl of those champs, they can't react to that champs' counter to counterplay.

YaskamasandwichDec 15, 20162 votes

{quoted}

nobody banned her before becauseh er playrate was low as hell.

vayne is unhealthy by design because if circumstances permits she outplays you and there is nothing you could have done to prevented that outplay. basically you can't outplay her back.

This, 100% This, she's always on my watch list because of her unhealthy kit. Even during Cinderhulk era when she was considered "weak" I've always banned her. She wasn't weak she was hidden broken op, just nobody knew due to Kalista standing beside before Kalista was righteously nerfed to the ground. It was just that Vayne couldn't 1v5 but if she had a Janna or any good support beside her, then she could 2v5 anything including the 3 tanks diving her.

SkorchDec 16, 20162 votes

Outplay = Unhealthy . . . Skill = Unhealthy

I love you gameplay boards.

5000000000000000Dec 16, 20161 votes

If she can outplay you and you can't outplay her back, then yeah, it's unhealthy.

81121764_DELDec 16, 20161 votes

TBH, it just depends what champ you are playing. You aren't going to kill vayne as an ashe post 11. Vayne excels in dueling, im not sure about her teamfighting, though. Even master yi can't kill a vayne. R>Q alpha strike cannot target stealth.

SkorchDec 16, 20161 votes

But that works in the opposite, caitlyn and draven typically counter vayne and she has a really hard time fighting them

PermabannedGarenDec 16, 20161 votes

[{quoted}](name=toxic resistant,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=tP3yAtOY,comment-id=0002000000020001,timestamp=2016-12-16T03:20:11.265+0000)

TBH, it just depends what champ you are playing. You aren't going to kill vayne as an ashe post 11. Vayne excels in dueling, im not sure about her teamfighting, though. Even master yi can't kill a vayne. R>Q alpha strike cannot target stealth.

A well played Yi easily kills Vayne.

He only needs to Q to dodge the condemn. If he does that and pops his sweeper to know where she will be when she pops out of stealth (she can't attack you while stealthed, you know that, right?), he dominates her. He is tankier (both innately and often in terms of build) and has higher DPS.

A crit Yi does it even more easily. A Q>AA probably 100-0's Vayne.

SmileInABoxDec 16, 20161 votes

Bruh, she can two or three shot at two items at the moment. That's not much of an outplay, that q crit removes any real chance to counter.

SkorchDec 16, 20161 votes

Im not saying she isnt strong at the moment "however im fairly certain she is somewhat fixed"

But what im talking about is the asinine notion of "vayne is unhealthy by design because if circumstances permits she outplays you and there is nothing you could have done to prevented that outplay. basically you can't outplay her back." and how that is a moronic accepted beleif the gameplay boards have. Strong =/= Broken

RexSaurDec 15, 20163 votes

Vayne is not op.

Tel SaroDec 15, 20162 votes

Sure, and yasuo isn't cancer.

She is a tank shredding, squishy popping nightmare with an dash that auto resets on a 2sec cd, an ad steroid, %hp true damage, a displacement/stun, and spamable invisibility that can't be reveal by control wards.

In what warpped universe do you get off saying she doesn't have a massively overloaded kit?

5000000000000000Dec 16, 20161 votes

to be fair, RexSaur only said that she's not OP, not that she's not overloaded.

81121764_DELDec 16, 20161 votes

I do agree on the part. With her new Q being able to crit (bonus dmg of Q and AA dmg), she's pumping quite a lot of damage compared to before. (People say it has been able to crit before, but that is not true. She has never been this bursty ever.) She might have too much power right now, but that doesn't make her op.

Her true damage isn't really that great to be honest. Sure it might be true damage, but it only procs on every 3rd attack on the same enemy. Not only that, champions such as Ashe have steroids that simply outdamage her silverbolts. In addition, most of vayne's damage comes from her pure AA's and Q's, not silverbolts, especially against squishies.

GayFluffyUnicornDec 16, 20161 votes

Funny thing is that it was just a QOL "buff". Usually only one part critted, AA or the Q bonus dmg. They changed it so that if it crits, both instances crits and here you go vayne with 1k crit in a tumble.

Bots Whilst HighDec 16, 20161 votes

If she's invisible she can't auto, if she can auto she's not invisible. Tumble resets to 2 seconds only if you have AAd someone with your tumble, otherwise it doesn't reset. If your team was good she would be dead or out of the fight before she popped her second silver bolts proc (that' 4-6 seconds with 1.5 AS if your letting vayne stand and shoot you you're doing something wrong) , her condemn is on a long cool down so if she uses it to peel she can rarely use it to stun unless you're out of position. Lastly her condemn severely punishes poor positioning, which is why most have a problem with it, they cant just go in willy nilly and get a kill with malphite Zac or nautilus.

RalanrDec 15, 20162 votes

Vayne is now officially the Zed/Yasuo of botlane. Where even when she's super weak (not that she is) people will ban her just because of how annoying she is.

RebonackDec 15, 20163 votes

{quoted}

Vayne is now officially the Zed/Yasuo of botlane. Where even when she's super weak (not that she is) people will ban her just because of how annoying she is.

To be fair, Vayne has always had a pretty solid pick rate even when she's fairly bad.

People enjoy her playstyle for the same reason people enjoy Luc and Ez. They're all fairly self sufficient Marksmen.

That's also why people hate Kog =<

RalanrDec 15, 20165 votes

I guess I kinda dislike self sufficient marksmen since the role isn't meant to be self sufficient.

RebonackDec 15, 20164 votes

{quoted}

I guess I kinda dislike self sufficient marksmen since the role isn't meant to be self sufficient.

It isn't, but most of the Marksmen Riot has made down the years have been. There are only a few who can't peel for themselves and/or disengage from someone pouncing on them. Most players don't like feeling helpless when things go south.

RalanrDec 15, 20163 votes

Yeah. Most players also don't like getting harassed from a far by a marksman who can peel them off when they get close.

RebonackDec 15, 20163 votes

{quoted}

Yeah. Most players also don't like getting harassed from a far by a marksman who can peel them off when they get close.

Caitlyn intensifies

I'm one of those weird people who like Kog. If people get to me, they deserve to murder my face.

And then get exploded on.

Champions like Cait and Ez are just frustrating. You manage to reach them and they just poof away and now they're poking you again.

AptestDec 15, 20162 votes

translation:

most players don't like being on the dying side. they like being on the killing side. That is why they play tank / mage / assassin /bruiser. They like being on the killing side and for someone on the other team to definitely be on the dying side.

they don't like vayne because with vayne their situation is reversed.

RalanrDec 15, 20163 votes

I'd like to actually hit my opponent and think that I'm actually capable at fighting back. Fighting a ranged champion makes me feel helpless.

AptestDec 15, 20161 votes

said any ADC main when facing a rengar / zed / leblanc / riven / yasuo / olaf / hecarim / syndra.....

RalanrDec 15, 20161 votes

Yeah, I know it sucks for both sides.

I know ADCs are squishy and need peel. Do you think that's going to make me not complain about them? No.

AptestDec 16, 20161 votes

complain away...

...but the point you're making is "this one specifically is bad because it can beat me 1v1"

RalanrDec 16, 20161 votes

I never said salt was justified.

Daddy AntsDec 15, 20162 votes

Vayne's only banned now because the CoTC abusing tanks and bruisers can't handle her.

Meanwhile Ezreal and Caitlyn have similar pick rates and people aren't crying about them.

RalanrDec 15, 20165 votes

Caitlyn complaints are actually pretty popular here.

We've given up on complaining about Ezreal. Like Lee, he seems immune to nerfs.

HazyCloud7Dec 16, 20161 votes

Ezreal doesn't need direct nerfs and people don't ask for them. I only see people asking for riot to make IBG non-viable for him.

AckelopeDec 16, 20161 votes

Though Ezreal is popular and can be annoying to play against, his winrate has never been very egregious, unlike Caitlyn, Vayne, and some of the other ADCs that receive a lot of complaints. I think he's alright for the most part, though I wouldn't mind if he was a little less popular...

On a related subject, it is a little odd to me that the boards seem to have identified a certain few champions they dislike, and a certain few they like. While there are constantly complaints about some, whether their winrate or playrate is out of line, others receive little to complaints about power regardless to winrate and playrate as well.

My assumption is that it's just more of a kit/design sort of thing. While Twitch's winrate may be absurd, it usually feels like you could've done more against him, he's pretty vulnerable and dies when caught out, whereas an Ezreal not only attacks and often slows from long range, but also has reliable means of escape.

Speaking as someone who is usually the one playing Ezreal, is that reliable escape the main thing that annoys you about him? What/how much do you think would need to change for him to be less frustrating?

And if I may ask one more question, what do you think about AP Ezreal, in terms of melee-range balance? I feel he's alright, has very good burst, but this is unremarkable among mages, and they can do that as well as things like waveclear, which he doesn't do very well at all.

PermabannedGarenDec 16, 20161 votes

{quoted}

Caitlyn complaints are actually pretty popular here.

We've given up on complaining about Ezreal. Like Lee, he seems immune to nerfs.

http://champion.gg/champion/Ezreal

Yeah, dude needs serious nerfs. Real OP champ right now, that Ezreal.

Tik115Dec 16, 20161 votes

Cait complaints are very common

Ezreal isnt complained much because he is just really annoying to chase, not an actual issue

That and the fact his build path keeps his power down longer then other carries.... That and a majority of his power is locked to his skillshots where as Cait and Vaynes are right clicks

DengedenDec 16, 20162 votes

People have nothing else to hate on. It's never "ban XX, they're good against our intended comp". It's always "ban XX I hate them".

Mysticman89Dec 16, 20161 votes

I'd be surprised if 5AS kog didn't reach that at some point.

The DeckownerDec 16, 20161 votes

machine gun KogMaw is 10 times harder to play than Vayne without scripts.

PermabannedGarenDec 16, 20161 votes

[{quoted}](name=The Deckowner,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=tP3yAtOY,comment-id=00090000,timestamp=2016-12-16T04:05:14.358+0000)

machine gun KogMaw is 10 times harder to play than Vayne without scripts.

It's only "harder" in the sense that kiting or orb-walking without losing DPS is pretty much impossible with 5.0 attack speed.

In practice machine gun Kog'maw won fights by pressing W and standing his ground.

The DeckownerDec 16, 20161 votes

in practice if you just stand still tanks will cc you and you will get runned over because u have no escapes.