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Riot, thank you for 5 bans.

Mira Arya Enthe··150 votes·3,742 views

Per team. Because that is what matters, your team having 5 bans. The enemy bans shouldn't matter to you if they banned it as well they weren't planning on playing anyway so the ban was wasted anyway. There is no cooperative effort between you and the enemies to ban all of a certain group, or else you wouldn't be banning them in the expectation of them being played...

What matters is now everyone gets to say what they didn't want to fight as a team or individual matchup this game. No bans were lost, 2 were gained per team.

This system is also great because to be honest, I don't want the enemy seeing my bans. Heck I almost wish we could do the same with champion selection so League of Counterpick to Win would go away. But that is another topic.

I saw the change and knew for a fact I could check the boards and see 3-4 posts screaming like banshees on the main page strictly because they don't want to use bans for the benefit of their team comp or matchup. They want to vengefully ban out specific champions. And are afraid doing so will waste it.

Good. I personally look forward to seeing people stupidly double banning trash. Meanwhile I will be enjoying my gauranteed opportunity to strategically take out extremely bad matchups.

The purpose of 10 bans is not to ban out all the best picks That would just create a second tier of best picks lol. The purpose is so everyone has a say in banning, if two people want Lulu ban, they still both get their wish.

92 Comments

Protoform X54 votes

Uh oh, a rational reaction. The boards are not ready...

XIII Vanitas16 votes

Not really. She's strawmanning those who don't agree with her, assuming that their motivation is to "vengefully ban out specific champions".

That's a logical fallacy.

Mira Arya Enthe14 votes

Literally what many have said for months. Their intention with 10 bans is just to ban one specific champion because Riot won't gut it for them. So it is an accurate statement.

XIII Vanitas10 votes

You keep assuming that's the motivation behind those who disagree with you. That's not the case.

https://boards.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/gameplay-balance/ETxUEjz2-current-10-ban-system-is-designed-to-prevent-permabans-on-some-champs

https://boards.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/gameplay-balance/1KsTEAv5-this-new-ban-system-will-be-problematic

And these are just 2 of the most visible posts on the boards.

Mira Arya Enthe10 votes

That first link is LITERALLY my point.

Their intention with 10 bans is just to ban one specific champion because Riot won't gut it for them.

You literally linked a thread saying the problem is the system doesn't favor permabanning champions the community dislikes.

Melledoneus21 votes

Well, at least one of these posts isn't pointless and thoughtless QQ.

Mira Arya Enthe18 votes

Complaints are fine, I just find when something is just announced and people haven't even thought it through they should avoid such https://i.makeagif.com/media/9-12-2015/Q_GLi_.gif reactions

TheSingularity3 votes

While I somewhat agree with riot fulfilling the most important part imo "everyone gets a say".

I'd personally prefer to see what has been banned but not necessarily who banned it. So if yasuo got banned he'd be greyd out and unbannable for everyone else Every 10 seconds 1 player per team is forced to lock in their ban and they're greyd out so theres no hostage situation.

There's often at least 4 champs that are must bans. So if 8 people ban 4 champions. They don't really have a choice, they're forced to ensure that champion doesn't make it to the enemy team.

SociopathFriend2 votes

There's often at least 4 champs that are must bans.

I somewhat disagree with this. While there are usually 4+ champions who are "strong" there are rarely 4+ champions that are straight-up OP and MUST be banned. Lucian for example is "strong" atm or previously was. He wasn't OP, just strong.

OP would mean you start warping the entire game around your very presence, such as 5.0 AS Kog'Maw or back-in-the-day Kassadin.

Hemoparty19 votes

I was honestly surprised at how people are freaking out. Like, the five of you each get to remove at least one unfavorable matchup. Honestly, looking at it as "ten bans" instead of "five bans" was probably the fundamental flaw.

NiceTryVi6 votes

I mean, when we were promised 10 bans, does it seem that ridiculous to actually expect to get 10 bans??

Arcus Diabolus9 votes

People are freaking out because we'll likely won't be able to get the full ten bans, but as far as im concerned, the 5 for your team is what matters most.

Mira Arya Enthe10 votes

Aka they won't be able to see if the enemy banned Yasuo so they will ban Yasuo, wasting their ban then complain when they have to lane vs Caitlyn as Sivir because they wasted their ban on Yasuo.

Glîtchy1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Mira Arya Enthe,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=tKUsdibw,comment-id=00000000,timestamp=2017-05-20T03:15:28.253+0000)

Aka they won't be able to see if the enemy banned Yasuo so they will ban Yasuo, wasting their ban then complain when they have to lane vs Caitlyn as Sivir because they wasted their ban on Yasuo.

I mainly ban oddball champs, like Fiora, Tryndafuck, Hoe Fortune, Darius, Katarin-ass, Kassadick, Lebitch, etc.

awaits screeching

Mira Arya Enthe6 votes

I ban Yi when I jungle, Cait when I sup or ADC, Ahri when I mid and Gangplank when I top. Aside from Cait most of these have pretty low ban rates so I am not concerned with overlapping bans. I ban what I cannot fight, not what the boards has deemed evil.

Linna Excel2 votes

I think this makes things more interesting though. Statistically speaking, things shouldn't be double banned that often. So if it happens, it's an unlucky fluke at worst.

Hexs Fortune4 votes

[{quoted}](name=Linna Excel,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=tKUsdibw,comment-id=000000000001,timestamp=2017-05-20T04:32:26.703+0000)

I think this makes things more interesting though. Statistically speaking, things shouldn't be double banned that often. So if it happens, it's an unlucky fluke at worst.

Statistically there is a high probability at least one of the top banned champs will be banned twice

Linna Excel4 votes

Eh, unless I'm using the wrong formula, I don't think that'll happen until someone's ban rate goes over 50%.

My reasoning:

  1. Most people won't ban a champ they plan on playing
  2. Most people won't ban a champ in their lane if the one they plan on picking does well against it
  3. Most people don't ban a champ in another lane unless it is really annoying for them to deal with, either in ganking from the jungle or in the teamfighting phase.
  4. People autofilled to a role they don't play much are less likely to make a good ban decision if they ban for their lane.
hhaavviikk3 votes

[{quoted}](name=Mira Arya Enthe,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=tKUsdibw,comment-id=00000000,timestamp=2017-05-20T03:15:28.253+0000)

Aka they won't be able to see if the enemy banned Yasuo so they will ban Yasuo, wasting their ban then complain when they have to lane vs Caitlyn as Sivir because they wasted their ban on Yasuo.

laning agaisnt caitlyn as sivir isn't actually that bad, 1 of the only ADC's who can just stand in her traps and gain something from it, not to mention the pushing power also helps a great deal

TyrekGoldenspear7 votes

Well finally someone understands the underlying purpose of the five armies bans.

Bisaknosp7 votes

bye Yasuo i will make sure to never see you again

XIII Vanitas7 votes

I disagree. Knowing the enemy team bans often allowed to predict and ban their intended picks. The fact that certain players wasted that opportunity doesn't mean it wasn't useful.

Doozku1 votes

No one does this in a solo queue game. Its only a strategy in coordinated teams or LCS.

PB4UAME2 votes

Not true, depends how well you know your match ups, lanes, and your general game knowledge. Certain champions are very dominant but have a few niche counterpicks. When I see one of those counters get banned despite them having a very low pick/ban rate or not being meta, you bet your ass I'm immediately think about why they banned those champions and who they might want to pick.

Was a huge think 4-5 years back, and I saw it constantly in seasons 2 and 3. Sure, its fallen off the past two years, and almost two thirds of current players haven't been playing since before season 6. Doesn't mean it doesn't happen, didn't happen or won't continue to happen just because newer and lower ranked players tend not to utilize it.

Clementine7 votes

You're one of the few people with any sense, god bless for being here

Mira Arya Enthe4 votes

I don't really want to be here. Far too much stress. Got enough to deal with irl and rarely get to play the game. But I feel obligated to argue these heavily upvoted posts until Riot impliments a system where vote tyranny cannot silence those who aren't in line with a couple top boards members while keeping those top boards members permanently in charge. It is why, for better or worse, I argue many of popular opinion among the noisy but small group of players that is the Boards community. I know many players who feel unwelcome here just because they don't prescribe to certain prerequisite opinions the boards try to shove down your throat.

ITz Revan2 votes

[{quoted}](name=Mira Arya Enthe,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=tKUsdibw,comment-id=001a0000,timestamp=2017-05-20T16:17:55.990+0000)

I don't really want to be here. Far too much stress. Got enough to deal with irl and rarely get to play the game. But I feel obligated to argue these heavily upvoted posts until Riot impliments a system where vote tyranny cannot silence those who aren't in line with a couple top boards members while keeping those top boards members permanently in charge. It is why, for better or worse, I argue many of popular opinion among the noisy but small group of players that is the Boards community. I know many players who feel unwelcome here just because they don't prescribe to certain prerequisite opinions the boards try to shove down your throat.

Well your one of few people MIra who are actually make the forums more tolerable unlike trolls like LesVitesses. Keep it up there's fewer people with intelligence still around.

coreychichi1 votes

"But I feel obligated to argue these heavily upvoted posts until Riot impliments a system where vote tyranny cannot silence those who aren't in line with a couple top boards members "

I mostly disagree with you on everything else but yeah this is a problem.

Gixia6 votes

[{quoted}](name=Mira Arya Enthe,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=tKUsdibw,comment-id=,timestamp=2017-05-20T03:05:36.326+0000)

Per team. Because that is what matters, your team having 5 bans.** The enemy bans shouldn't matter to you if they banned it as well they weren't planning on playing anyway so the ban was wasted anyway. There is no cooperative effort between you and the enemies to ban all of a certain group,** or else you wouldn't be banning them in the expectation of them being played...

Yes, thank you! Finally somebody else points it out. People bitching about their ban being 'wasted' if the enemy team bans the same thing. Well, you don't typically ban the champs that your teammates want to play, so that means the enemy team was never going to play that champ and your ban was already 'wasted' to begin with, but nobody understands. The enemy team is not your friend. Their bans are not helping you, they are attempting to hurt you, and if their bans are benefitting you in some way it just means they're wasting a ban as much as you are.

The Lexer6 votes

Finally, somebody with a brain posting on boards. 'Tis a nice change

Linna Excel5 votes

I think this system has 3 benefits to the current one.

  1. Ten potential bans.
  2. All of them should probably be finished relatively quickly.
  3. People will have to decide if they want to risk double banning a popular ban target or hope the other team does and risks it getting through.

As for the last one, it slightly favors the side that picks first, but since the most banned champ in non-pro elos is fizz at 10% 63% (according to LOLalytics) ~~ it's not that huge of a risk~~ it could happen.

Mira Arya Enthe6 votes

The thing is, you aren't working with the enemy team to ban out all the specific bans, the enemy bans are irrelevant. Nothing was lost, your team just gained 2 bans for 5 total vs 3 total. You gained 66.6666...% bans. Now everyone has agency to say they don't want to fight the champion they don't want to fight, if the enemy also didn't want to fight them both still got what they wanted.

watch the bush5 votes

I didn't think I'd find a thread where someone actually has a brain. Thank god.

Anags5 votes

Just so you know the Second tier of best picks isn't that much better than the lower tiers in the field making it much less of an advantage. Not sure how that is a negative.

It really sounds like you just want blind pick. And typically there are more than 1 or 2 champs you would like to ban if not more.

Mira Arya Enthe10 votes

Ban Fiora get Darius or Jayce or Yasuo or Kled or Pantheon

Yeh... not seeing it as much better. Unless you convince both teams to ban entirely for your lane preferences. Much better to do bans based on matchups as the list of champions who are conditionally annoying is essentially all of them.

Nah, blind pick is cancer because of role calling. If it had role selection then sure. I have no interest in arguing over who's chat was in the correct order.

Automated Riven2 votes

Nah, blind pick is cancer because of role calling. If it had role selection then sure. I have no interest in arguing over who's chat was in the correct order.

literally the reason I never play blind pick.

WinTheWarOnPants1 votes

I play blind because i don't wanna play "champ select simulator". Also, because draft is far more toxic this season(from my experience) due to auto-fill.

TEA Nietzsche 4 votes

It's actually a beautiful change. Everyone gets a say AND it takes less time. Especially with how often people dodge nowadays due to autofill this is huge.

Gelmous3 votes

hey man no problem, glad you like the new update

Tangy Citrus2 votes

[{quoted}](name=Mira Arya Enthe,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=tKUsdibw,comment-id=,timestamp=2017-05-20T03:05:36.326+0000)

Per team. Because that is what matters, your team having 5 bans. The enemy bans shouldn't matter to you if they banned it as well they weren't planning on playing anyway so the ban was wasted anyway. There is no cooperative effort between you and the enemies to ban all of a certain group, or else you wouldn't be banning them in the expectation of them being played...

What matters is now everyone gets to say what they didn't want to fight as a team or individual matchup this game. No bans were lost, 2 were gained per team.

This system is also great because to be honest, I don't want the enemy seeing my bans. Heck I almost wish we could do the same with champion selection so League of Counterpick to Win would go away. But that is another topic.

I saw the change and knew for a fact I could check the boards and see 3-4 posts screaming like banshees on the main page strictly because they don't want to use bans for the benefit of their team comp or matchup. They want to vengefully ban out specific champions. And are afraid doing so will waste it.

Good. I personally look forward to seeing people stupidly double banning trash. Meanwhile I will be enjoying my gauranteed opportunity to strategically take out extremely bad matchups.

The purpose of 10 bans is not to ban out all the best picks That would just create a second tier of best picks lol. The purpose is so everyone has a say in banning, if two people want Lulu ban, they still both get their wish.

While I agree that the ban would be wasted regardless and people shouldnt be upset. And I do really love that it hides the bans (ending the mind games some people do to waste time). If they hid the champs from one another one tricks would be dominant and would change the entirety of league.

CyberBalt2 votes

My complaint about is that it forces me to gamble on whether or not the enemy team is going to ban a certain champion or not, and I really don't like that.

Shuyin1786 votes

It's to prevent perma-banning and to prevent draft from taking a year to get into game.

CyberBalt1 votes

Alright, correct me if I'm wrong: Current draft phase is 30 seconds each for 6 people, for a total of 3 minutes max. The updated version is 35 seconds for ALL bans. So don't they have more than enough room to add in time?

Shuyin1781 votes

30 seconds for 4 more bans would be +2 more minutes for a total of 5. 5 minutes, in the ban phase, after the "I want to play this champion" phase, and directly before the pick phase that also takes 3+ minutes to complete. As-is we are already taking over 6 minutes per draft before the game even starts, with the chance of dodgers at any point. This shaves off time in draft so we can get into games faster, so I'm fine with everyone banning at the same time.

CyberBalt1 votes

Oh yes, but I was thinking more of just: 35 seconds for one team to ban. 35 seconds for the other. Boom, it's still shorter than current champ select, and you can't duplicate bans.

I guess you could argue that it gives the second team banning more of an advantage, but quite honestly, I don't think it's remotely a big deal in solo queue.

And even if it is an advantage, give the second ban phase to the side that on average has a lower win rate (I think currently, that's red side?) and use it to even out the score or something.

ntbcool2 votes

I think thats an ok things especially if it saves me like 2 minutes per champ select and lets me play champs that would other wise be perma banned.

Truly Prideful2 votes

It's giving me exactly what I want so I won't complain. I never have to see Lee Sin again, maybe I can lane in peace.

Daddy Ants1 votes

Either way, Yasuo and Lee Sin are goners.

Lauchmelder3 votes

Good.

Riot might need to consider reworking their kits for once then.

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