Can we get some harder bots please?

KotetsuTatsumaki··165 votes·6,161 views

I know this has been brought up before but I seriously wish there there was a bot difficulty somewhere between intermediate and doombots game mode. Granted, I understand that the primary purpose is for players to get acquainted with basic game mechanics. That's great, I'm in favor of that. But then once you learn the game, they aren't much of a challenge anymore, but i still find myself in positions of wanting to learn new things (roles, champions, specific builds) without possibly jeopardizing a normal or ranked game.

The funny thing here is that me steamrolling the match isn't the issue. Whenever I load in i seem to see that I get 3 other fellow bronze players, and then there's a gold or higher Riven main or something (or any high ranked player who happens to be playing whatever is op at the time) that just wins lane in 5 mins, pushes down 2 towers and then just goes and gets kills all over the map. Meanwhile I'm somewhere else and maybe 2/0/2 or something and wondering if I'll even get to build my second item + boots before the game is even over.

Whenever I ask said steamroller about why they are even in the game, their claim is that they just want 1st win of day bonus, which is great for them (and me too I guess), but if every game is like this then how am I really ever gonna get this practice I want in. I can't destroy bots as fast as these guys, that's why I really wish we had something that would at least keep a gold player on their toes. Not sure what Riot is capable of programming but it really would be awesome if they could in my opinion. Just a hard difficulty mode, and maybe something beyond that, call it extreme or legendary difficulty or something.

121 Comments

phirestarter67 votes

what's wrong with ones in solo queue?

Transgressor37 votes

Savage as fuck.

Boosterino2 votes

Jesus, you're a monster!

Jofeyy10 votes

The ones on my team are deffective

Oshlet8 votes

Well, you did ask for difficult ones.

AninLegions7774 votes

Dayuuuuuuum son! That burn left a patch the size of a stadium. Amumu

Nearance2 votes

{quoted}

what's wrong with ones in solo queue?

Oh sh*t, the Force is strong in this one. summoner 31

Syvenon11 votes

I don't really understand all the fear about playing a normal game with a new champion. Like if someone is flaming you for not doing too well that's their own problem. If you want to you can even tell your team before the match starts "first time ___" and if that upsets someone so much that they don't want to play then they can just dodge. It's a pvp game, the point is that you should be learning new stuff and getting more experience through pvp.

james1212349 votes

its called stop playing bots

KotetsuTatsumaki41 votes

Ah okay, try a new champ in normals and get yelled at by my team for feeding before I understand how to play a higher skill cap champ, gotchya. ;)

I don't see anything that can go wrong with that nor did I address that in my original post.

Deep Terror Nami39 votes

Don't argue with him, he'll just flame you.

KotetsuTatsumaki13 votes

Yeah, I forgot this was still the internet for a second.... thank's for the reminder yo.

Trolls just gonna be Trundles sometimes...

Pierce The Veal9 votes

{quoted}

Ah okay, try a new champ in normals and get yelled at by my team for feeding before I understand how to play a higher skill cap champ, gotchya. ;)

I don't see anything that can go wrong with that nor did I address that in my original post.

You're too casual.

I try all my new champs straight out in ranked.

Zulgaines5 votes

I play with bots because I still like the game after many years of play, just not enough to want to deal with the players.

Hell the people going after high scores that rage at you for stealing kills in bot matches are the real reason we need a higher difficulty, I can still enjoy my relaxing bot matches and they can stress out trying to survive it, win win.

Gamemaster Anth5 votes

Personally...I wouldn't mind playing against bots that actually knew how to jungle. That could make things just harder enough for my purposes since seeing bots go double top in intermediate every time gets predictable.

Pierce The Veal4 votes

{quoted}

I know this has been brought up before but I seriously wish there there was a bot difficulty somewhere between intermediate and doombots game mode. Granted, I understand that the primary purpose is for players to get acquainted with basic game mechanics. That's great, I'm in favor of that. But then once you learn the game, they aren't much of a challenge anymore, but i still find myself in positions of wanting to learn new things (roles, champions, specific builds) without possibly jeopardizing a normal or ranked game.

The funny thing here is that me steamrolling the match isn't the issue. Whenever I load in i seem to see that I get 3 other fellow bronze players, and then there's a gold or higher Riven main or something (or any high ranked player who happens to be playing whatever is op at the time) that just wins lane in 5 mins, pushes down 2 towers and then just goes and gets kills all over the map. Meanwhile I'm somewhere else and maybe 2/0/2 or something and wondering if I'll even get to build my second item + boots before the game is even over.

Whenever I ask said steamroller about why they are even in the game, their claim is that they just want 1st win of day bonus, which is great for them (and me too I guess), but if every game is like this then how am I really ever gonna get this practice I want in. I can't destroy bots as fast as these guys, that's why I really wish we had something that would at least keep a gold player on their toes. Not sure what Riot is capable of programming but it really would be awesome if they could in my opinion. Just a hard difficulty mode, and maybe something beyond that, call it extreme or legendary difficulty or something.

So I would like to drop by and mention just how hard it is to code hard bots for the little to no profit it would give them.

For one, they have nothing to earn from it. People aren't suddenly going to start dropping more $$$ because of hard bots.

For another, I would like to mention that in code, it gets exponentially harder to make bots more difficult. You can think about it like this, to make easy bots you might need a a thousand or so lines of code. To make intermediate bots you might need 10 thousand. And hard bots can range 50k and up. You can always make them harder and harder.

Paroe3 votes

{quoted}

So I would like to drop by and mention just how hard it is to code hard bots for the little to no profit it would give them.

For one, they have nothing to earn from it. People aren't suddenly going to start dropping more $$$ because of hard bots.

For another, I would like to mention that in code, it gets exponentially harder to make bots more difficult. You can think about it like this, to make easy bots you might need a a thousand or so lines of code. To make intermediate bots you might need 10 thousand. And hard bots can range 50k and up. You can always make them harder and harder.

But you have doom bots, which are the old bots with custom kits. It wouldnt be that hard to use the doombot AI without the doom kits. Well, if riot wasnt made of spaghetti it wouldnt be.

Pierce The Veal9 votes

{quoted}

But you have doom bots, which are the old bots with custom kits. It wouldnt be that hard to use the doombot AI without the doom kits. Well, if riot wasnt made of spaghetti it wouldnt be.

The doom bots don't have intelligent AI. They have cheating AI. Making cheating AI is a shortcut and isn't the way to make good ai.

Paroe1 votes

{quoted}

The doom bots don't have intelligent AI. They have cheating AI. Making cheating AI is a shortcut and isn't the way to make good ai.

You cant really MAKE the AI much better than it is. And old bots were perfect to train against because by the time you could successfully land skillshots most of the time, you were good enough to hit live players 99% of the time.

Pierce The Veal4 votes

{quoted}

You cant really MAKE the AI much better than it is. And old bots were perfect to train against because by the time you could successfully land skillshots most of the time, you were good enough to hit live players 99% of the time.

You can make the AI MUCH better. The time investment into it is ridiculous though, and you'd have to start going into individual champion specifics.

You could even technically make an AI team that can consistently beat the pros without cheating. The coding to do so would be ridiculous though.

st0rmfur2 votes

Do you really need to code all the things a bot should do by yourself? I would think that this is a great use-case for machine learning, not only to improve player experience in botgames but also for the know-how that comes from it and the science in it itself.

If the bots could learn from the extremely vast data-base of pvp games they would become ideal sparring-partners, maybe even individually matching for each divison!

SomeLink2 votes

{quoted}

But you have doom bots, which are the old bots with custom kits. It wouldnt be that hard to use the doombot AI without the doom kits. Well, if riot wasnt made of spaghetti it wouldnt be.

Really? Doombots seemed like intermediate bots, just with better kits. I doubt they did more than code them to understand their new kit, and just used the intermediate AI.

The difficulty of doombots were the moves. The bots weren't hard in the slightest. The moves were what made it somewhat difficult. Artificial difficulty really, it was hard because you had to fight something that just outclassed you in terms of range, size, etc.

Robertsmash2 votes

Doombots were intermediate AI with the upgraded abilities.

BluePolarizer1 votes

Just would like to mention that DOTA has hard mode bots that will destroy the average DOTA player.

Pierce The Veal2 votes

{quoted}

Just would like to mention that DOTA has hard mode bots that will destroy the average DOTA player.

I would like to mention that DOTA doesn't make as much money as LoL, and isn't as successful. Having it doesn't make them richer nor does it earn them more money, it just means they expended the company's money to develop an exceedingly complex feature that doesn't necessarily bring in money.

BluePolarizer1 votes

pretty sure the company that makes DOTA (Valve) has a revenue multiple times that of Riot games. Also pretty sure that the prize pool for TI is literally 10x more than the prize pool for league worlds and DOTA has more external esports sponsorship than league does.

Pierce The Veal3 votes

{quoted}

pretty sure the company that makes DOTA (Valve) has a revenue multiple times that of Riot games. Also pretty sure that the prize pool for TI is literally 10x more than the prize pool for league worlds and DOTA has more external esports sponsorship than league does.

Well let's talk about Tencent then. And let's also talk about a prize pool that doesn't even go to Valve's pocket.

Let's see, Tencent is worth 200 Billion dollars. Valve is worth just over 3 billion. Damn! It's almost worth 1.5% of Tencent's market value!

Woah man, you're right, Dota is amazing.

Dota earned 18 million a month in revenue. Riot earned 624 million in 2013, rising to almost the 1 billion mark. 18 times 12= 216.

Considering the fact that Dota is willing to spend on stuff like Hard AI, I'd be willing to assume that revenue mostly doesn't turn into profit.

BluePolarizer4 votes

most of tencent's business is not in games. I know because I use their software. They produce messenging software, anti-virus, social media, etc with gaming as a small part of their portfolio.

Pierce The Veal2 votes

{quoted}

most of tencent's business is not in games. I know because I use their software. They produce messenging software, anti-virus, social media, etc with gaming as a small part of their portfolio.

And all of valve doesn't produce Dota. It doesn't matter who makes the game. Valve making money doesn't mean Dota is as profitable as LoL. Your reasoning is flawed.

Sales ftom TF2 don't indicate that Dota is profitable. Shocking, I know.

Rendath3 votes

I have a suggestion. Open it up as a competition. I love coding AIs. I'd participate and invest months into perfecting a particular champ as a bot. For free, just for the fun of it. I've taken part in AI bot coding competitions which saw many hundreds of entries. It's a popular enough hobby that there are probably people out there better than any Riot employee at doing this, just because it's their hobby, and will do it for free too.

FistOfSharkiesha4 votes

They need to be revamped. 2 bots top lane makes it impossible to train as jungler and top laner in bots because you're either 1v2 or you can't experience counterjungling and work around it. They need to move a toper laner into jungle, it can't be that hard.

Another problem is their inconsistency. They will dodge spells with cast times such as ZAP, no matter how quick the missile speed nearly 100% of the time, while they don't even make an effort to dodge skillshots without cast times such as any of Vel'Koz's abilities.

They're meant to be preparation for pvp and they fail miserably at that.

Artificial Human4 votes

It would also be nice if Miss Fortune bot wouldn't cancel her ultimate or Fiddlestick his Drain. Different bots would be nice too or Doom Bots.

Lowvyr4 votes

What if we could pick where the bots go in lanes? Like if I wanted to play with these teams:

Team 1: Warwick Darius Lux Ashe Me

Team 2: Cho'Gath Trundle Ryze Tristana Leona

The way this would work out is:

Team 1: Warwick = TOP Darius = TOP Lux = MID Ashe = BOT Me

Team 2: Cho'Gath =TOP Trundle = TOP Ryze = MID Tristana = BOT Leona = BOT

It's impossible to make 2 bots top, 0 mid, and 2 bot so that you can practice mid and have side lanes full of bots. I feel like just simply making us have the choice of what lanes they went into would be nice.

http://i.imgur.com/2nXntdl.png

I feel something like this would be good.

Shinytoes204 votes

Jungling Bots! [slayer-jinx-catface]

FastAsHeck3 votes

Don't be afraid of trying new stuff in normals, that's what they are for. People who flame you for losing lane or building item 3056 are the ones who should be staying away from normals, not you. If you get flamed, just mute them at the first offensive message they send and forget about it. Losing lane isn't even that big of a deal if you play smart and give up as few advantages as possible, so you can still be relevant when behind. Personally I love trying new stuff, and people will always flame me when I'm not doing an amazing job, but I mute them and enjoy my game. It is also more fun to goof around with new stuff against other people :P

JinHong3 votes

I also don't like how the champion pool for bots is SOO small (54 champs, really? when there's already 128? and the last champ that was added in for AI was Lucian ..who was released almost three years ago now.) Come on Rito! cater to us Co-Op players as well!

ZT Xperimentor3 votes

Not to mention they removed a few when they got reworked; sona, sion, veigar. Seriously some more variety would be nice too.

Catch a Cold2 votes

Trust me, if you ever hit a normal bot with a Jinx W, then you are challenger.

Tysmin2 votes

they are scripting

LatetotheRace2 votes

Original bots were good, petition to revert!

KarKzz2 votes

I play in custom VS bots to train skillshots. They are godlike are dodging. Way better than real players... THIS IS HOW I TRAINED NIDALEE, OKEY ? DON'T JUDGE ME.

Taric the Gay2 votes

Expand bot roster by 10-15 bots. Get a melee AD asssassin champion going mid. Fix some of the current champion AI (Rammus, Alistar, Fiddlesticks, Vladimir, etc.). Allow bots to ward bushes again. Allow bots to use flash again. Have bots attempt to take dragon.

That alone should make them "expert" bots.

Lintu Puck2 votes

I actually wouldn't mind a level above Intermediate yet below the INSANITY that is DOOOOOOOOOMBOOOOOTS!

Reaper Soraka2 votes

Remove Beginner bots. Rename Intermediate bots to beginner bots. recreate Intermediate bots with an additional 25gp10.

Bonipherus2 votes

I like playing against bots because it's really calm and you don't get all the toxicity but I want more of a challenge. Give me a threat of losing every once in a while

rtbf2061059051 votes

Their excuse is "I want the first win of the day bonus"? Seriously, they are so insecure about playing against humans that they'll assume that they will not win a single game so they go play bots?

Jari3 votes

Better than run the risk of a losing streak, or if they aren't feeling up to it and still want the win IP bonus. #Lost6GamesInARowWithFIrstWinUp

Sintama2 votes

You won't. When they queue for a normal, they're going to get dominated by a Diamond+ in normals.

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