Why LoLer’s really don’t want Balance

La Belle Sauvage··9 votes·673 views

Chess! Chess is the most balanced game I can think of, where the pieces matter less and where the Strategic and tactical prowess of the player take precedence.

I Say this because I constantly see; “X item/champ is OP needs to be Nerfed”. However, I think the translation is:

“I can’t play the way I want, so whatever prevents me from playing that way is OP and should be changed” with that kind of thinking any hope of balance is unlikely.

Consider if we take these same complaints and apply them to Chess, especially at lower Ratings--

For example – the Sicilian Opening is OP (a very complex opening seen at all levels of play) We need to nerf this opening the win rate of this opening is above 55% in Class E and D levels (akin to Bronze).

Or this, “We need to nerf the Queen; it’s not fair that I have to pay attention to her so much! It is really affecting my game”. It sounds ridiculous in that context right?

Or better yet— “playing the same opening all time is BORING. We need to change how openings work so I don’t have to play the same one over and over again DESPITE it resulting in me winning at over a 50% rate”. I’m thinking of the complaints of having to build Locket and Redemption here.

What about Baseball? “The Fastball is OP, we should put a 3 inning cool down on it so Pitchers can’t ABUSE it.”

If LoL is supposed to be about Strategy and the Skill of the actual player than let it be that. I think that means that Items/builds/Champs, once normalized should be fairly stable and not changed based on what players consider OP. And if you want to build off Meta, then you must understand what you’re giving up.

Another Chess example, most everyone plays E4 or D4 openings. But then you get the swashbuckler’s who play nothing but Gambits and Trap oriented openings, because they find it exciting. And I say to those players BRAVO!

These players accept by giving up a pawn in the opening they get minor compensation in initiative. Meaning they can develop their pieces faster, thus completing their attack plan before the other side has time to build a defense, (because they’re too busy accepting the Gambit piece) Likewise the other side who accepts the gambit is mentally stating. “Sure, I’ll accept your gift, because I think a) you can’t take advantage of your MINOR initiative bonus and b) I think I can fend off your attack. Or you get players like me, that have trouble for gambits, so I transpose most games back to a familiar opening , which puts the game back if familiar waters.

I concede that in video games like LoL there isn’t a direct comparison to Chess/baseball and issues do crop up from time to time. Likewise, when they give too much power (or take too much away) from an item or champ. I’m not sure what a balanced MOBA looks like (or RTS/FPS) but I would bet a lot of money that if ever achieved a lot of players would hate it. I further concede I have no idea of LoL is close or not close to being balanced. The downside to my argument with Chess is, that for every move/opening on the chess board there are multiple counter moves that give equal chances.

Saying all that I conclude that Players wouldn’t really want total balance because at that point I bet we’d see “BORING” Posts everywhere.

19 Comments

Cats Are Food10 votes

I agree with you completely, but this game stopped being about strategy and skill a while ago. Sucks to hear, but it did. The strategy of games is decided now by what RIOT allows to work, not like it was originally when we players were inventing things on the fly because they would work, adapt to situations by shifting tactics, etc. Now shifting your tactic means swapping out one item with another... or surrendering because the tactic that "works" isn't working.

Dragfin4 votes

{quoted}

I agree with you completely, but this game stopped being about strategy and skill a while ago. Sucks to hear, but it did. The strategy of games is decided now by what RIOT allows to work, not like it was originally when we players were inventing things on the fly because they would work, adapt to situations by shifting tactics, etc. Now shifting your tactic means swapping out one item with another... or surrendering because the tactic that "works" isn't working.

100% wrong. Adapt and change with the evolution of the game. The game would get old and boring if it stayed the same.

Cats Are Food4 votes

I rather meant adapt to the players you are against. We don't have much choice but to adapt to an ever changing game.

However - telling people "the game changes, deal with it" is a pathetic excuse made in the place of dealing with errors and flaws in new things.

Dragfin2 votes

{quoted}

I rather meant adapt to the players you are against. We don't have much choice but to adapt to an ever changing game.

However - telling people "the game changes, deal with it" is a pathetic excuse made in the place of dealing with errors and flaws in new things.

Sure it is for people who won't do it or learn to do it because they are entitled. RIOT knows 100% more about their game then most of the people who trolls these forums. The game is balanced around 5v5. People who disagree need to go play solo games because they have a zero team mindset and an unwillingness to adapt to change. Useless in a MOBA as far as I'm concerned.

Cats Are Food3 votes

I think you missed the entite point here, and can bite a big one. Have a nice day.

Dragfin2 votes

{quoted}

I think you missed the entite point here, and can bite a big one. Have a nice day.

No I didn't miss anything.

KoggyStyle1 votes

well damage sure as hell dident make the game fun now did it?

Dragfin2 votes

[{quoted}](name=Snaggle Tooth,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=t7N3Nbrh,comment-id=000200000001,timestamp=2017-03-29T23:54:50.703+0000)

well damage sure as hell dident make the game fun now did it?

I have no problem with anything RIOT has done with the game except the fact that LPQ don't fix afk's/dc's. As far as gameplay goes. I adapt to the changes. The game is fun and always will be fun. Playing with this whiny, bitchy and entitled player base is not fun.

GULAG 4 U3 votes

Who could have thought, the designers of a game determine what works and doesn't in their game!

Cats Are Food2 votes

Imma go dredge the old forums for the 500 or so posts made by the RIOT Devs stating that changes to this game will never be anything other than community driven changes. When changes happen, and the vast majority of players take to the forums and a statistically small few are against them... this isn't player driven.

Skias1 votes

{quoted}

I agree with you completely, but this game stopped being about strategy and skill a while ago. Sucks to hear, but it did. The strategy of games is decided now by what RIOT allows to work, not like it was originally when we players were inventing things on the fly because they would work, adapt to situations by shifting tactics, etc. Now shifting your tactic means swapping out one item with another... or surrendering because the tactic that "works" isn't working.

This, right here. This game is about reflex and abusing whatever overtuned pick is overlooked. Honestly, team play is so incredibly unreliable in SoloQ that it makes a very unsatisfactory game experience when team dependence is hardcore enforced like it is now.

Dragfin3 votes

Everything you said is common sense to anyone but those you described in the second part of your post. LoL is balanced around 5v5 play. The people that whine and bitch are thinking 1v1. They are useless for the most part.

La Belle Sauvage2 votes

That's a good point in regards to 5v5, I should have said "...Comes down to the strategic, tactical prowess of each member of the team".

Titanium702 votes

Well the thing is those games you mentioned are old and fully developed by now. However during their birth they went through alot of changes and that is what LoL does right now. IMO the goal of balance should be to bring every Champion to a poaint where he is not garbage or broken beyond belive. Viable - for short. As long as we don't have that we can't freeze the game solid and let the players develop for there on.

To get back to your example. Imagine a figure in chess that's unable to move forward and is therefore so bad that noone ever touches it. (That's Udyr for you). Is that really a state you would want to keep?I don't. That's why we still need change.


However the other.. and I'd say major problem is another one.

Riot: They change for the sake of change and they tend to fix what's not broken.

We once had a state of League where litterally EVERYTHING (From Lee to Urgot) was viable and playable, where no build looked broken, both early and lategame were important and a good Team-strategy was THE most important winning condition.

Basicly a time in Leauge I wouldn't have mind to freeze Leauge and give players the chance to look for perfection from that point. That was Season 5s ending/post Cinderhulk META. That was a glorious time for League of Legends.

BUT: They changed it - not because something was wrong - just because they wanted. A dozen of Champions went from a rock-solid Top-Pick into completely outclassed by the Juggernauts and Fiora. Masteries introduced a riddiculous DMG-Creep and system changes took snowball to a new Level. Another example would be the Seasonal JGL-Changes. Every freaking time they get the JGL to a point where it's balanced for JGL and Laners and allows a most JGL to be played... they change it!

La Belle Sauvage1 votes

{quoted}

Well the thing is those games you mentioned are old and fully developed by now. However during their birth they went through alot of changes and that is what LoL does right now. IMO the goal of balance should be to bring every Champion to a poaint where he is not garbage or broken beyond belive. Viable - for short. As long as we don't have that we can't freeze the game solid and let the players develop for there on.

To get back to your example. Imagine a figure in chess that's unable to move forward and is therefore so bad that noone ever touches it. (That's Udyr for you). Is that really a state you would want to keep?I don't. That's why we still need change.


However the other.. and I'd say major problem is another one.

Riot: They change for the sake of change and they tend to fix what's not broken.

We once had a state of League where litterally EVERYTHING (From Lee to Urgot) was viable and playable, where no build looked broken, both early and lategame were important and a good Team-strategy was THE most important winning condition.

Basicly a time in Leauge I wouldn't have mind to freeze Leauge and give players the chance to look for perfection from that point. That was Season 5s ending/post Cinderhulk META. That was a glorious time for League of Legends.

BUT: They changed it - not because something was wrong - just because they wanted. A dozen of Champions went from a rock-solid Top-Pick into completely outclassed by the Juggernauts and Fiora. Masteries introduced a riddiculous DMG-Creep and system changes took snowball to a new Level. Another example would be the Seasonal JGL-Changes. Every freaking time they get the JGL to a point where it's balanced for JGL and Laners and allows a most JGL to be played... they change it!

Good post! I'll reply later!

Kukan Seishin1 votes

CHESS :DDDDDDDDD

Troll for Trump1 votes

The game has shifted away from drawn-out tactics (DoTA, card games, or StarCraft) to appeal to the FPS crowd.

And it's working.

Short, fast-paced games.

Mannny1 votes

If you consider Graves where he can do so much for his team and others compared to other junglers when he wasn't even meant for the role in the first place you start thinking maybe this guy is a little but too strong.

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