"Don't interact with me" the champion

Mira Arya Enthe·Feb 11, 2017·102 votes·7,481 views

We talk a lot about champion interactivity here. But how about this one...

His literal gameplay style is to avoid interaction whenever possible, farm, exhaust any dives and run away, then ult bot lane for a Karthus style ks team support.

I honestly feel like I interact more with Nasus, Malzahar and Karthus than buttpirate. Sure, a few select champions can bully him, and he is NOT OP. But how is his completely non-interactive gameplay at all healthy or fun?

251 Comments

IcyPepperFeb 11, 201764 votes

then ult bot lane for free Karthus style ks team support.

>free Karthus style >ult

Okay, really sick of people tagging "free" onto everything to make it sound worse. If it's "free," then does that make Karthus's ult "free" too? Does GP's ult auto-target everybody, instead of being an aoe?

I'd really like to be "free" of this "tack free onto everything to make it sound worse" mentality.

Mira Arya EntheFeb 11, 20178 votes

Just following the boards ways.

"Riven gets FREE mobility." "Ekko gets a FREE redo button!" "Ahri gets FREE escape."

Line is literally there because I am sick of these arguments.

Big LincolnFeb 11, 201718 votes

riven's is actually free tho, technically speaking

Mira Arya EntheFeb 11, 201718 votes

It costs cooldowns. The only thing free in League are extra passives and base stats. That said champions sacrifice power elsewhere to get those in most cases.

The only reason Riven "Has no Cooldowns" is because she rushes 45% cdr. Otherwise they are actually on the longer end for a melee fighter.

AirKingNeoFeb 11, 20175 votes

Well realistically speaking Riven's E and R are two of the most broken abilities in the game. Her Q, while annoying, isn't that bad.

Mira Arya EntheFeb 11, 201724 votes

But her Q is called Broken wings :^)

ElikainFeb 11, 20173 votes

And Yasuo's ult is called Last Breath. That doesn't mean every time a Yasuo ults, he is destined to die after it.

#Or is he? :^)

BladeSingularityFeb 12, 20172 votes

You know, maybe that should be added as spaghetti code...

"Yasuo now dies immediately after casting **R - Last Breath **."

Or, if you want to make him even more annoying, guarantee that the person he used Last Breath on automatically dies when the spell finishes. Only do that if he dies too.

AtanchanFeb 12, 20171 votes

... An attack damage and +75 range steroid plus a single, if longish range execute is one of the most broken abilities in the game?

Seriously, I think these boards stopped speaking American English at some point because some of their most used terms aren't used in a way you'd expect them to be.

AirKingNeoFeb 12, 20172 votes

Low cooldown, massive nuke, manaless. There's a reason people even when ahead of Riven have to buy defensively a bit so she can't one shot combo them post 6.

AMYS GRAVEFeb 12, 20171 votes

Her ult fixes her sword so that it isn't broken anymore.

AirKingNeoFeb 12, 20172 votes

Low cooldown, manaless, massive nuke. There's a reason why people legit buy cloth armor vs Riven while ahead. They'd get oneshot otherwise.

Big LincolnFeb 11, 201718 votes

why'd they have to go and give him barrels?

he was cool when he was just a guns n' sword n' oranges pirate

then they added barrels

Mira Arya EntheFeb 11, 20173 votes

I'm not sure if it is the barrels or not. I don't play him. I just know I interact less with him than I do the almonds I will die if I eat.

Big LincolnFeb 11, 20179 votes

it is the barrels because they remove the need to fight in melee unless you're forced to

on top of his free extra gold income that makes him outscale you without ever interacting with you

TequilaZombieFeb 11, 20173 votes

He doesn't outscles you because his gold income. Outscaling is based on kit and item synergy.

He outpaces you and scales faster.

But yeah, new GP is a bitch.

Sahn UzalFeb 11, 20179 votes

Gold passive, not barrels.

JavelinJoeFeb 11, 201716 votes

no champion damage Tryndamere has been a thing (trolling?) for some time now

Mira Arya EntheFeb 11, 201718 votes

Trynd clearly needs a rework ~~and better lore~~. Butt pirate already got a rework, and has almost no interactions with champions unless you are playing a lane bully counter who forces him out of lane. His gameplay purpose is entirely avoiding direct fights unless he gets enough farm/~~kills~~assists for mid/late game.

TheHappyReaperzFeb 11, 201712 votes

Then pressure him. Exhaust has a CD, so does his oranges. Be thoughtful, be prepared. Take whatever advantages when you can, if you can. You don't need to play a lane bully to beat him in lane, as GP has quite few champions he beats in lane. Just play aggressively into him.

NastyMcOutplayFeb 11, 20176 votes

{quoted}

Then pressure him. Exhaust has a CD, so does his oranges. Be thoughtful, be prepared. Take whatever advantages when you can, if you can. You don't need to play a lane bully to beat him in lane, as GP has quite few champions he beats in lane. Just play aggressively into him.

finally, someone who doesnt just circlejerk over what some dumb randy says because he got shit on by a gangplank

Mira Arya EntheFeb 11, 20179 votes

I beat Farmplank, I saw him picked so I went Tankmo instead of a fun champion and just bullied him out of lane. ~~Finally somebody who doesn't assume disliking a design = lost to it~~

ShaolinToiletFeb 11, 20177 votes

Why do you keep crossing out what you say. If you want to say it then say it.

Supreme Senpai69Feb 11, 20171 votes

Somewhat agreed but the orange CD is usually shorter than the hard CC CD/availability to use it for a kill. The GP has to really, really fuck up.

Sahn UzalFeb 11, 20175 votes

22 seconds CD on Oranges at rank 1. He maxes it last.

Packun FlowerFeb 11, 201711 votes

Tryndamere what more needs to be said

EndlessSorcererFeb 11, 201710 votes

I came here expecting Singed.

Mira Arya EntheFeb 11, 201716 votes

Singed clearly needs a rework. Gangplank already had one. That is where I am having the problem.

CancerBasedGodFeb 11, 201740 votes

Stay away from singed!

Mira Arya EntheFeb 11, 201711 votes

You're right, we should never ever update outdated designs. Heck, we shouldn't have updated WW or Sion either.

CancerBasedGodFeb 11, 201722 votes

But singed is meta and people like him...

Mira Arya EntheFeb 11, 20178 votes

Yasuo is meta, and people like him. So?

Smitty ManjensenFeb 11, 20179 votes

{quoted}

But singed is meta and people like him...

If Singed was played as much as GP you would see the forums littered with threads how he's a bad champ, and he is, a champion that literally just run around behind minions and farms while dying until he's relevant is toxic design and needs to be addressed.

NineTailedMysticFeb 11, 20176 votes

Sorry, it isn't fun when someone plays Singed just to run around and be an asshole.

VeltoxFeb 11, 20179 votes

That's literally his whole identity. If you get annoyed then he does his job.

NineTailedMysticFeb 11, 20176 votes

Doesn't mean it's a good thing for the game. He's the asshole who picks Oddjob in Goldeneye. He was the kid who said "nuh-uh you didn't hit me!". It's not the kid's fault they're like that, but that doesn't change how they don't wanna play a game with someone like that.

Just like Singed, it's not his fault he was made that way, but no one actually wants to play against Singed.

The WhamboozlerFeb 11, 201711 votes

There are a lot of champs I don't want to play against. Doesn't mean they should all be reworked and/or deleted.

NineTailedMysticFeb 11, 20173 votes

When his job is to, apparently, be annoying, does it really need to be part of the game?

TequilaZombieFeb 11, 201714 votes

His job in the early/mid is to create massive amounts of pressure in determined points of the map (usually Top Lane) to force a reaction from the enemy jungler.

His job in the mid/late game is to pressure the enemy team into peeling him away from the ADC while providing utility for his team and punish bad positioning to some extent.

Those are his jobs. Being annoying is just something that happens due to his kit, but then we have Ahri Annie Azir Blitzcrank Caitlyn Cassiopeia Darius DrMundo Evelynn Fizz Gnar Heimerdinger Illaoi Ivern Jayce Kalista Karthus Katarina Khazix LeeSin Leblanc Lulu Malzahar Morgana Nasus Nunu Pantheon Renekton Rengar Riven Ryze Shaco Skarner Soraka Swain Syndra TahmKench Teemo Tryndamere Urgot Vayne Veigar Vladimir Yasuo Zed Ziggs Zilean Zyra who are all frustrating or annoying to play against, despite having solid and important jobs to be done.

NineTailedMysticFeb 11, 20173 votes

I never said he was or was not annoying. I just said he runs around like an asshole. Veltox had specifically said being annoying was his identity. Surely he can fulfill his actually healthy gameplay niche without having to play like annoyance, no?

Wet DrymanFeb 11, 20179 votes

Psychological warfare (this is what you call annoyance) is part of gameplay of many champions. Shaco does some funky stuff to outplay his opponents, he uses low hp bait tricks to his boxes, he counterjungles his opponent to tilt them and make them do much more mistakes. Between those things he laughs, taunts with his emotes to actually drop their morale. But guess what, psychological warfare is nearly useless if you're mentally strong.

If Singed provoked you with his overall gameplay style to follow him by his trail then oh boy you need to chill. Or even if you're easily tilted there is much you can do against him (so you won't get tilted because of these things). He refuses to interact with you by proxying? Fair enough, free gold with good waveclear/rushing tiamat. You want to actually leave your lane without being proxied and pushed by minions? Get Zz'rot. Your waveclear forces him to actually interact with you? Good for you because most of his matchups are bad and you can beat him to pieces. He proxies in your base and you're not laning against him? Force grouping and taking objectives.

Taking this aspect from gameplay because someone is sensitive to in game laughs, spamming emotes and refuses to think about different strategies to play around "annoying" champion will be the day I'll leave this game.

NineTailedMysticFeb 11, 20173 votes

"Psychological Warfare"? Don't make me laugh.

Mind games are one thing. Using traps to trick people is an outplay, no two ways about that. Counterjungling is to put them behind in EXP/Gold. Your "Psychological Warfare" is just a cover up to BM. You know what else makes your "Psychological Warfare" useless? The mute button.

Singed's actual gameplay isn't awful. I hate braindead split pushers but it can be deal with, with nothing more than "Ugh, I gotta go stop his split again" or likewise. But when a champion's whole game plan is to goad and antagonize other people in to bad decisions (or "tilting") is when something has to give.

Surely, the person downvoting me without saying anything in response is using this "Psychological Warfare" on me, huh?

Wet DrymanFeb 11, 20172 votes

You're getting mentally outplayed by Singed ;]

You can't mute enemy emotes or mastery symbols.

Shaco in order to outplay someone uses stupidity of opponent/forces enemy to make mistake for example recalling on low hp in the middle of 3 boxes or laughing at them and make them chase him to boxes out of frustration he did before.

Singed laughs, acts like an ass in order to force people to chase him or get their attention to him. If he didn't do that most people would ignore him making him useless. He is far from being braindead splitpusher as he heavily relies on his teammates, stalling, juking skillshots, knowledge of when to splitpush or when to group and general teamfighting skills. Most splitpushers don't need their teammates to do it cuz they have attack speed, AD and escapes, strong 1v1 or even 1v3 potential or other effects like immortality for short period of time. Singed relies on his teammates pushing and while they are busy doing other things he is making them at disadvantage by splitpushing because he needs more time to take down turret alone than Tryndamere, Yi or Shaco.

Singed and Shaco are not the only ones who use emotes or strange gameplay pattern as part of their gameplay. Leblanc often does similar things, so does Mundo, Nunu, Udyr and Teemo and guess what. People find that funny and even those who don't play said champions are laughing or make posts like "petition to make Teemo laugh global". Even Riot further encouraged your "BM" by adding laugh sound of Shaco when someone walks to his box.

TequilaZombieFeb 11, 20175 votes

6 years Shaco main and Singed enthusiast (aka asshole) here.

What has been said is only part of what truly BM'ing is.

Quite a few people get tilted if you spam Laugh or Mastery, but many more others don't.

What is tilting is the play pattern that they offer.

Do a gank, take 1/2 of somone's hp + their flash or other summoner. Go to a bush and as soon as they push gank again. BOOM. You got a kill/forced a recall and most likely got that laner rather pissed about being double ganked. As soon as they get back to lane (all the sweeter if they don't have TP), gank them again. You don't even need to kill them, just chunk them hard so your laner can zone. That one player is now pissed at you. That player is now much more likely to overextend to try and kill you during the rest of the game. Sure, there is likely a gold lead gained, but it's not the point. At least not to a player who chose to main such a champion.

Same happens with Singed. Enemy picks a lane bully, Singed invalidades their pick by proxying. Not only that, but with Rylai's perma slow+mov speed buff from Ult and Ghost+Defensive steroids from ult the Singed player can easily make someone waste important CDs on what looked like a sure kill only to see him walking away at 20% hp. And that's when people chase Singed and he gets to do the most out of his kit.

You don't play those champions because you want an Assassin in your comp or a mobile tanky damage dealer, you play them because you enjoy messing around with people.

Hell, my favorite memory with Shaco in over 400 games is having 3 people following me for about 6 full minutes and crossing the whole map multiple times and even having their Morgana flashing on me TWICE during the chase.

Sahn UzalFeb 11, 20179 votes

I've been asking Riot to get rid of his gold income passive for a long time.

I actually quit taking Exhaust on Gangplank, because if you have exhaust, and you die/ get forced back by the enemy jungler, the CS and XP disadvantage will result in GP getting dove over and over. For Toplane GP, I'd say one should take TP over EXH in the majority of matchups.

A toplane GP who sits back and farm all lane into every matchup is not a good Gangplank If GP farms it out against a Riven, Tryndamere or Fiora for example in the first 5 levels, those champions will just proceed to all in him at level 6. The way GP beats those matchups is by gaining a lead over them before they unlock their ultimates.

If Riot limited the Range on cannon barrage, but gave him a reason to try and win lane, I wouldn't even be mad. I'd love that. I still don't see how me getting an assist with my Ultimate is '' a free assist '' though. I used my ultimate for it after all!

AhristocatsFeb 11, 20175 votes

[{quoted}](name=Tidal Tyrant,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=t2AeoeMi,comment-id=0015,timestamp=2017-02-11T10:33:14.969+0000)

If Riot limited the Range on cannon barrage, but gave him a reason to try and win lane, I wouldn't even be mad. I'd love that.

No, his laning doesn't need anything it's the gold generation you destroy gp in lane but he comes back with gold

instead of nerfing his gold generation they nerfed his global presence which was the reason gp was picked in pro, now he's still picked but less because his ulti deals almost no damage at level 6 while having 180 sec cd

and let's be honest, thunderlord procing on his ulti also imbalanced him

Sahn UzalFeb 11, 20172 votes

They're gonna change the coding on TLD so it no longer procs on his ultimate, so his ultimate is basically a global slow at level 6.

He'd be a way healthier champion without that stupid gold generation passive, and I still hope Riot will get rid of it at some point.

AhristocatsFeb 11, 20176 votes

then he will need buffs

Lord MalpercioFeb 11, 20175 votes

Nunu jungle

'I will literally make your jungler more useless than me. He should just AFK.'

SîndragösaFeb 12, 20174 votes

It's because he has been nerfed so much (not joking) that he had to fall back to his core playstyle, which is Q spamming, farming a lot and ultying to steal kills. He can barely survive laning now. He is like Nasus, getting bullied by everybody but he is kinda ranged and much better then Nasus (Q max not E old school Nasus) for every purpose other then tankiness since he can ranged farm, zone with barrels, and ult steal kills. Also he outscales Nasus in teamfighting.

Also his item builds have been nerfed. Triforce lost 20% crit and IE got nerfed badly. He used to be able to get 100% crit and tons of AD.

And tbh he is very interactive : you get to play a minigame of killing barrels. Granted it's aggravating but it's interactive. But I agree he is super annoying overall.