Point-and-click stuns and snares

Glîtchy·Mar 20, 2017·9 votes·4,989 views

Do you guys think point-and-click CC should be removed? Stun and snare for instance, as it just seems unfair to a LARGE degree that champs like these 2 can just immobilize you and call it a day after just 2-shot killing you, now I'm prepared for the dislike storm headed my way but idrc.

However slows and knock ups don't really bother me, as there's still a chance for escape while the other 2 are just "you stuck b*tch! now die!" seriously, who thought point-and-click immobilization was fair?

37 Comments

DynikusMar 20, 20174 votes

item 3140 summoner 1 item 3814 item 3102

IncognonymousMar 20, 20173 votes

{quoted}

The cooldown on those items, is what, five times the cooldown of the nonult abilities OP is talking about?

Yeah, real fucking helpful. I cleansed Ryze's W. What's that? He can W me again before I even get out of range? Oh yeah. It's almost like the items you listed are exceptionally niche and have no basis being bought as a general counter to hard CC.

GlîtchyMar 20, 20173 votes

{quoted}

1 CC negation every 2-5 minutes vs. CC every 10 seconds.....

DynikusMar 20, 20172 votes

why are you fighting every 10 seconds?

GlîtchyMar 20, 20171 votes

{quoted}

why are you fighting every 10 seconds?

What I'm saying is, a long cooldown to negate something that's back like 10 times faster than the negation makes no sense when the CC is point and click.

DynikusMar 20, 20172 votes

I'm aware of what you're trying to say, but the cooldown for those should be back up before the next fight.

Friendly RamMar 20, 20173 votes

i think point and click cc has a place in this game but needs to be on less nuclear champions.

FrnakMar 20, 20173 votes

They've been slowly removing it.

Expect it to disappear entirely eventually.

Makior72Mar 20, 20172 votes

I'm going with no on this one, just because I feel like all the point and click stuns / snares / taunts etc have shorter ranges compared to their skill shot counterparts, so it feels balanced in that regard.

GlîtchyMar 20, 20171 votes

{quoted}

I'm going with no on this one, just because I feel like all the point and click stuns / snares / taunts etc have shorter ranges compared to their skill shot counterparts, so it feels balanced in that regard.

Literally the only fair point-and-click CC is slowing effects, like Kayle's and Nasus' slows.

InTheoryMar 20, 20172 votes

[deleted]

IncognonymousMar 20, 20171 votes

{quoted}

I have no problem with crowd control being point'n'click because it absorbs more of a champion's power budget. What I have a problem with is the synergy for other champions that have hard to hit CC/damage but then more from that because the reduced reliability grants them more power in return - however they get the bonus damage without the loss in reliability (CC chains).

Power budget means very little in a game where Lee Sin has had four times the power budget of the average champ since his inception.

You want to see what good a power budget does, look no further than Skarner's Spires.

ROFL, Riot.

IncognonymousMar 20, 20172 votes

Absolutely. Name one downside of turning EVERY non-ally or self-cast point and click into a skillshot? You have to actually be good at the game now?

LOL

It can ONLY raise the skill cap of LoL, a notoriously, laughably easy game to master mechanically.

Mecha MaIphiteMar 20, 20172 votes

laughably easy game to master mechanically.

so why aren't you diamond

IncognonymousMar 20, 20171 votes

[{quoted}](name=Mecha MaIphite,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=syud7rag,comment-id=00040000,timestamp=2017-03-20T20:55:49.625+0000)

so why aren't you diamond

Because LoL isn't necessarily about mechanics, it's about decision making. Think of the hardest champion to play. Now think of the easiest. Not much difference, is there? The truth is, with a little guidance, you can play most champs to near their potential with less games than it takes to place each season.

As to why I'm not Diamond, the obvious answer is that I don't play Ranked, and haven't for some time.

Mecha MaIphiteMar 20, 20172 votes

Think of the hardest champion to play. Now think of the easiest. Not much difference, is there?

So why do some champions who were strong in pro play only decent in low elo solo queue, like Azir? It isn't just about coordination; it's also about mechanics. It's also indicated by the difference in win rate between people who have over 100 games, and people who've only played arond 20.

Someone like Garen, on the other hand, I could pick up and play almost as well as a Garen main, at least in terms of "mechanics".

IncognonymousMar 20, 20171 votes

[{quoted}](name=Mecha MaIphite,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=syud7rag,comment-id=0004000000000000,timestamp=2017-03-20T21:04:28.583+0000)

So why do some champions who were strong in pro play only decent in low elo solo queue, like Azir? It isn't just about coordination; it's also about mechanics. It's also indicated by the difference in win rate between people who have over 100 games, and people who've only played arond 20.

Someone like Garen, on the other hand, I could pick up and play almost as well as a Garen main, at least in terms of "mechanics".

"Only decent" seems like a poor defense when "average" is optimal for all champs, in a balance situations. Azir gets rewarded for high mechanical ability, sure, but as long as you can read the abilities he has by mousing over them, you'll do fine. Anything more is up to decision making, exactly as I said.

Granted, Azir is a bad example, considering he's one of the few champs in the roster who's had significant kit alterations without a full rework.

DynikusMar 20, 20171 votes

Think of the hardest champion to play. Now think of the easiest. Not much difference, is there?

There's actually a pretty huge difference.

IncognonymousMar 20, 20171 votes

{quoted}

There's actually a pretty huge difference.

Relative to what? Other MOBAs? Starcraft?

Let me help you out: No.

DynikusMar 20, 20171 votes

Whether or not they require the same micro as playing starcraft is completely irrelevant. Compare a champion like annie or garen to riven or azir. Easy champions have next to no skill shots, and their kit is incredibly straight forward and easy to use. The most complex thing about annie is managing your stun, and being able to pull off flash tibbers. Compared to riven, who has dozens of combos with precise timing for animation cancels, or azir's shurima shuffle.

IncognonymousMar 20, 20171 votes

{quoted}

Whether or not they require the same micro as playing starcraft is completely irrelevant. Compare a champion like annie or garen to riven or azir. Easy champions have next to no skill shots, and their kit is incredibly straight forward and easy to use. The most complex thing about annie is managing your stun, and being able to pull off flash tibbers. Compared to riven, who has dozens of combos with precise timing for animation cancels, or azir's shurima shuffle.

No, it really isn't. LoL does not exist in a vacuum. When I say it isn't mechanically complex, there obviously has to be SOME measure of comparison. By a comparison to Starcraft it falls laughably short, hence why I brought up other MOBAs, but LoL does not compare favorably against them either.

That's not necessarily a bad thing, it's just fact.

DynikusMar 20, 20171 votes

starcraft isn't a moba, so that comparison is terrible. And what other mobas does league fall short against in terms of mechanical skill? I'm curious what other moba you're playing where champions like riven or azir are easy mechanically compared to their roster.

And your argument wasn't only that league is simple compared to other games, part of your argument was that there's hardly a difference between the most mechanically challenging champions and the least.

Maximum MordeMar 20, 20172 votes

No, they serve a purpose in balance as a counter to mobility.

GlîtchyMar 20, 20171 votes

[{quoted}](name=Maximum Morde,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=syud7rag,comment-id=0008,timestamp=2017-03-20T21:41:28.198+0000)

No, they serve a purpose in balance as a counter to mobility.

So how's it fair for immobile champs? and for instance.

Maximum MordeMar 20, 20171 votes

It's fair by virtue of not harming them really any more than other forms of cc that are likely to land on them.

ZephyrDrakeMar 20, 20172 votes

so... knock-ups don't bother you whereas stuns and snares do... you do know that you can actually reduce the duration of stuns and snares and flat out get rid of them with certain things whereas knock-ups you really cannot do that right? so... you are fine with what is effectively a stronger version of both a stun and a snare

GlîtchyMar 20, 20171 votes

{quoted}

so... knock-ups don't bother you whereas stuns and snares do... you do know that you can actually reduce the duration of stuns and snares and flat out get rid of them with certain things whereas knock-ups you really cannot do that right? so... you are fine with what is effectively a stronger version of both a stun and a snare

Knock ups don't bother me because we're only airborne for a brief moment.

ZephyrDrakeMar 20, 20172 votes

{quoted}

Knock ups don't bother me because we're only airborne for a brief moment.

"brief moment" the usual stun or snare lasts about as long as a knock-up and you can reduce the duration of them further or outright negate them. If you have zero issues with knock--ups you shouldn't have any issues with stuns or snares since the ones who actually have long durations actually are skillshots not point and clicks

GlîtchyMar 20, 20171 votes

{quoted}

"brief moment" the usual stun or snare lasts about as long as a knock-up and you can reduce the duration of them further or outright negate them. If you have zero issues with knock--ups you shouldn't have any issues with stuns or snares since the ones who actually have long durations actually are skillshots not point and clicks

I mean like on Annie and Ryze, you're typically dead before it even wears off.

ZephyrDrakeMar 21, 20173 votes

{quoted}

I mean like on Annie and Ryze, you're typically dead before it even wears off.

that's their job. Annie is meant to be a burst mage and a short range one at that. You want to get rid of her stun? that is asking for her range to be increased or for her to gain some form of mobility since otherwise she would literally be completely ineffective against the vast majority of players. Ryze is also really short range and it's not even a stun so you can still fight back unless you are either a melee champion or some mage with even worst ranges. He is not killing you in one rotation unless you are a squishy and if you are and he somehow managed to get to you and root you? then that's on you. If there is anything on him that would need to be toned down would be either his shield or MS buff but then again he has a below 40% winrate so he isn't even strong unless in a really coordinated environment

OleandervineMar 20, 20172 votes

When champions like Talon, LeBlanc, and Yasuo get out of control, only point and click snares can shut them down.

ZT XperimentorMar 20, 20171 votes

Only if the excessively mobile champions have an opportunity cost. Like reducing their base movement speed &/or increasing cooldowns; so they have to use their mobility abilities wisely instead of spamming.

zaire90Mar 20, 20171 votes

As an assassin player i say yes but when im going against those assassins i appreciate that ryze snare a whole lot more

Fighter Ignite1Nov 25, 20171 votes

{quoted}

As an assassin player i say yes but when im going against those assassins i appreciate that ryze snare a whole lot more

As an assassin player, you should wait for cc to be down, no matter if it is point and click or not.

oSEXYPLATYPUSoMar 20, 20171 votes

the entire game and everything you do is point and click

GlîtchyMar 20, 20172 votes

[{quoted}](name=MrFawknSunshine ,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=syud7rag,comment-id=0009,timestamp=2017-03-20T21:51:06.093+0000)

the entire game and everything you do is point and click

By point-and-click I mean where the CC activates faster than you can respond.

oSEXYPLATYPUSoMar 20, 20171 votes

if you are facing a champ or team with lots of cc or hard cc arent their spells, items, masteries and champ abilities that help against them ?