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Seriously. What is teh fucking point of playing Late Game Mid Lane Mages.

Theorex··10 votes·3,216 views

I haven't had fun at all playing Cassieo or any of them.

If you play against an early game team and ANY of the lanes lose. You have no impact at all.

You could be miles ahead of your laner in terms of skill but if your jungle is worse or if you can pressured by anyone else. You can't do anything to "Outplay" the enemy. You are a sitting kill for ALL assassins early game. You are a sitting kill for Tanks/Bruisers in the mid game. And late game guess what, you can't even kill the ADC in a 1 v 1 unless you catch them walking by a brush unwarded.

Like I can't even practice new mages that scale well into the late game anymore.

Whats the point of having a class called mages, that are suppose to be a damage source when ADC's damage is hardly mitagatable anymore.

Ninja Tabi + Randuins hardly does ANYTHING against crit anymore. The only time armor is effective against ADC's are when they build lethality and you have over 200.

So again, why even play mages anymore?

That mid season mage update did justice to maybe 6 mages AT that time.

Syndra, Ryze, Malz, Vlad, Swain, and A Sol.

But now look at what Riot has done to those champions.

Vlad got hit multiple times, he was forced to change his build multiple times.

Ryze got shit on three patches in a row when he was at 46% win rate. Now he sits at a 45% win rate.

Syndra lost her three ball grab and now lost TLords.

Malz got changed around was relegated to support, then changed again and IS STILL a CC bot for the team. Doesn't even really try to fucking to do damage. His whole concept now is Flash R.

Swain is getting a rework. So let that one sink in.

A Sol is "hard" so they haven't touched him at all.

Not to mention the item changes back in MYMU, was trash. They moved all of our power into Morellonomicon. Removed certain things that EVERY other mage was using because the problem mages were abusing them, but they didn't want to hit Syndra because it would hurt her so much. So they nerfed Rylia. Which hurt champions like Cass, Malz, Brand. Who it works well with in their kits. Because they need it. Vs syndra who wanted it for AP. They are okay with completely fucking up mages because of 1 or 2 offenders. Instead of removing so much of the slow, some AP, and some HP. They could have simply removed a bunch of AP. Make it a good by for champions that still have DoT.

Riot has displayed time and time again. That playing mages doesn't pay out.

and even more so late game mages.

If you want to climb. Learn an Assassin for Preseason. Learn a tank for Mid Season. Learn a ADC for Pre-Worlds patch.

You'll climb because those three ALWAYS get to be strong at least one a year.

TL;DR

Riot has come to the conclusion that mages unless they want them in the meta aren't allowed to be in the meta.

Look at Ryze, he was picked at worlds in season 7 and had a 36.6% win rate. Played by pro players.

Riot please say something to explain your game play decisions as to why mages continue to get screwed.

55 Comments

dunder kill6 votes

Ninja Tabi + Randuins hardly does ANYTHING against crit anymore.

Lol what? Its in black and white right there

item 3143 -20% critical strike damage taken from basic attacks.

item 3047 Reduces incoming damage from all basic attacks by 10%

But hey I guess 30% is "hardly anything"

You then go on to list a bunch of viable or even very strong midlaners and attempt to present them as gutted or shit.

This whole "mages are unviable" stuff is getting really annoying. It's complete horseshit.

Theorex1 votes

Tanks generally need more items than just those to not be affected by the crit damage and speed.

I have tested that on Trundle.

I go Randuins and Ninja tabi. Thinking oh the ADC won't kill me as easily. But I am wrong EVERY single time.

Mob Piru1 votes

{quoted}

Tanks generally need more items than just those to not be affected by the crit damage and speed.

I have tested that on Trundle.

I go Randuins and Ninja tabi. Thinking oh the ADC won't kill me as easily. But I am wrong EVERY single time.

i mean do u sit there and just let them auto u to death or are u actually veing smart about how u go about fighitng them.

any adc can kill a tank if the tank plays bad

Theorex1 votes

I mean, I am melee. So its rather hard to get to them. But regardless of that fact. obv. I am not just standing there letting the ADC auto me to death. Pillar that bish and go to other melee targets to try to kill them lul

Mob Piru1 votes

{quoted}

I mean, I am melee. So its rather hard to get to them. But regardless of that fact. obv. I am not just standing there letting the ADC auto me to death. Pillar that bish and go to other melee targets to try to kill them lul

yeah u just answered my question. Trundle is actually pretty garbage right now. If u want to actually feel useful as a tank i suggest u pick one with hard cc to lock down that adc. Trundle is a niche pick and jsut sucks compared to someone like Galio Gragas JarvanIV Rammus Sion TahmKench Zac Taric Shen Ornn Malphite Nautilus

Theorex1 votes

Its more about the fact, that if I play a bruiser I pretty much have to full opt into 3 or 4 armor items just to not get autoed 5 or 6 times before I die.

That leaves almost no space for anything else. Because if the enemy APC is also doing damage then I have to opt into one mr item.

Leaving me with 1 item slot for Damage/ my champs use.

Blåbæret4 votes

Tabis and randuins do nothing vs. crit ADCs. That is completely correct. If Rand was 40%, ya, but as of right now, it does nothing. ADC damage is still too high.

Theorex3 votes

I like how you and I were downvoted for saying that.

They don't realize that tanks have to build 3 armor items and have something in their kit that makes it hard for ADC's to kill.

Lets do a run down of that champions in that list that the person gave.

Galio: % damage reduction Gargas: High Burst, and % damage reduction. J4: Extremely high burst and dive capability with good escape. Rammus: Armor, built in thornmail with the thornmail he has. Sion: Doesn't care if you kill him because you have to focus him twice. Meaning you aren't doing DPS to the enemy champions since you are so focused on him. Tahm: Has two hp bars, and can eat you stopping your DPS if you're in range. Zac: CC bot for days from lightyears away. Isn't just a pain in the ass to ADC's but to everyone. Taric: Can't die and is made to deal with AD champions in his kit. Shen: Has a auto attack blocking zone. Ornn: Is broken and % max hp shield. Malphite: Is the embodiment of Armor. Naut: The Original CC bot. Isn't just a pain to ADCs.

But lets transition it over to champions that can buy Ninja Tabi and Randuins that doesn't get as much value from their kits like Irelia, Riven, Trundle, Pantheon, etc. They don't get % damage mitigation. They have stuns and high damage. But they would be better off going full damage at that point because they can get perma cc'd.

Poske2 votes

{quoted}

I like how you and I were downvoted for saying that.

They don't realize that tanks have to build 3 armor items and have something in their kit that makes it hard for ADC's to kill.

Lets do a run down of that champions in that list that the person gave.

Galio: % damage reduction

Bonus he can even give % damage reduction

Gargas: High Burst, and % damage reduction.

Damage reduction is the most important part but he heals well

J4: Extremely high burst and dive capability with good escape.

Although he doesnt have dmg reduction he is the BEST ad champion who abuses stoneplate (dmg reduction item) because of his shield stoneplate interaction.

Rammus: Armor, built in thornmail with the thornmail he has.

He would be underperforming without aftershock since he has stat gain which is useless compared to %dmg reduction. I consider him UP. Sees 0 compettetive play and does nothing at my elo

Sion: Doesn't care if you kill him because you have to focus him twice. Meaning you aren't doing DPS to the enemy champions since you are so focused on him.

Can we call that dmg reduction. Idk maybe

Tahm: Has two hp bars, and can eat you stopping your DPS if you're in range.

Tahm essentially has wierd type of damage reduction

Zac: CC bot for days from lightyears away. Isn't just a pain in the ass to ADC's but to everyone.

His passive is tehnicly a mini zhonya (Some dmg reduction) he isnt really viable because he doesnt have good %dmg reduction Which is Absurd because Zac has absurd kit yet he isnt viable since armor and mr are worthless thx to item overlords item 3033 item 3135 item 3165

Taric: Can't die and is made to deal with AD champions in his kit.

Aoe dmg reduction

Shen: Has a auto attack blocking zone.

You forgot the dmg reduction he gets when dashing really important

Ornn: Is broken and % max hp shield.

The only viable tank who isnt abusing aftershock / has dmg reduction in kit But lets face it that is because he is relativly new and he gets buffed every patch

Malphite: Is the embodiment of Armor.

his tank steroid is quite subpar compared to dmg reduction of other tanks

Naut: The Original CC bot. Isn't just a pain to ADCs.

another quite subpar tank. Mainly due to lack of dmg reduction and I guess leona is better aftershock abuser?

Maokai But that is not all folks. I would like to add maokai who got reworked because he had AOE dmg reduction ultimate Curently his W still acts like dmg reduction because its a trickster but his heals are quite good to

Warwick Guess what warwick has. %dmg reduction

Hecarim His W is essentially a delayed %dmg reduction affected by grevious. But it is still a dmg reduction

Rengar His Emp W is essentially %dmg reduction

Kindred %Aoe dmg reduction

But lets transition it over to champions that can buy Ninja Tabi and Randuins that doesn't get as much value from their kits like Irelia, Riven, Trundle, Pantheon, etc. They don't get % damage mitigation. They have stuns and high damage. But they would be better off going full damage at that point because they can get perma cc'd.

**Tank itemization doesnt make you tanky ** **KITS DO **

this is a main reason why bruisers suffer Except xin zhao/warwick who recently got HINT Damage reduction

Theorex2 votes

Thank you for adding this bit into my post.

But you know how it is, people won't believe you unless you get 5 PHD's in LoL. One for Top, Jungle, Mid, ADC, Support. With a minor in Comp Theory.

LemurKick2 votes

You're just straight up delusional if you think mages are bad, all the statistics sat otherwise.

Theorex1 votes

Late. Game. Mages.

Ralanr2 votes

Honestly late game mages always seemed weird to me.

I can’t cast spells as fast as an ADC auto attacks.

Theorex1 votes

I don't even think it would be possible to spam spells that fast honestly. Imagine being able to spam spells are fast as ADC's auto in a span of 5 seconds. That would mean that your mage can cast 2.5 spells per second and fluxuate to 2.5 spells + 80%. xD

But on a serious note. They are weird.

PopcornBunni1 votes

Anivia is still far and away the only mage I enjoy playing as. Her combo damage is rewarding, and she has a safety net to farm under tower with her passive to protect from all-ins. Her wall and ult make for extremely potent zoning tools to control pathing and burn enemy flashes, and she scales really well with late game items like item 3027item 3003 .

I prefer item 3001 over rod for the CDR, and build double tear (item 3004 item 3003 ) for the slowest latest game plan ever, but it makes her scale exceptionally well throughout the game by doing so.

Theorex1 votes

Yeah except the things they did to anivia weren't even needed for her.

Changed her ulti to now expand. Her E only does more damage when you land a Q or they are on a full expanded R. To do the same damage that it used to do. All they did was increase her skill cap with no rewards.

They don't reward playing champions that have higher skill caps.

If we were to the same player on Anivia before rework and after rework. You would see a much better win % from the before rework.

Ghostcrawler at his finest :D probably wasn't him. But he has completely neglected mid lane or purposefully gimped mid lane.

SB Arneeman1 votes

Double tear? Dude, the game is done 90% of the time before you have stacked the second one, and you lose a lot of midgame damage. Just stack magic pen together with item 3040 item 3027 so you can carry with her before the game is over.

Troll for Trump1 votes

Vlad/Ryze/Azir aren't allowed to be good in soloQ because of their strength in competitive play, especially Ryze. They reward team play, and that sucks for soloQ.

Malz has pretty much always centered around catching people with his R, especially around mid-game. What Riot shouldn't have done is emphasize that part of his kit. But that was one of the main things that made him the anti-assassin mage. Also, he's been good, ever since his rework, for a REALLY long time. hell, he's doing fine now, and he has an identity and a reason to be picked.

No comment about Asol

Syndra isn't a lategame mage primarily, she's a bully. She's kinda like ori, but more emphasis on bullying. She is doing poorly right now, though.

Cass I have a problem with due to how she plays against melees with the E spam. Against ranged she might be weak early and turn into hypercarry, but against melees she can beat them pretty consistently.

I feel Karthus is supposed to be strong late-game too, but his kit is too outdated.

Riot has come to the conclusion that mages unless they want them in the meta aren't allowed to be in the meta.

That applies to every class basically, you know?

Theorex1 votes

1: I Agree that Vlad, Ryze, and Azir aren't allowed to be good because of competitive play. But then what about champions we don't see in competitive play that are good at all elos and still do well in high elo?

2: Malzahar can be addressed in a number of manners. As I have suggested Increase his CD on the ulti from 120/100/80 to 140/120/100 and cut 50% damage off of it. This should make his ulti around 50ish seconds again vs what it currently is which is 36 second with ultimate hat and cut his assassination potential down a bunch from just clicking R. Change his Q to reward him for landing it on multiple targets by giving it damage amp to all damage sources by 5%/10%/15%/20% for when the champion got hit. Meaning if you were hit second you take 5% more damage, third 10% more damage, fourth 15% more damage, and last 20% more damage. Rework his passive to something usable and not bullshit. Malzahar passive was the test dummy for all of the new % damage reductions. Recommendation of giving him movespeed whenever he cast a spell. This will synergize well with his kit at this point. Also Malzahar isn't doing well because he is good, its because he has something stupidly strong in his kit that shines really easily with everyone. Clicking R. Thats it. The sad part about this is that if you look at my seasonal history I used to play malzahar a bunch. And it pains me to see the state that malzahar is in, it has removed anything that made him fun. He is just a champion made to make sure that the ADC doesn't instantly die to X target.

3: Syndra is doing poorly because of the TLords removal.

4: The problem with cass is the time it takes to scale up with her. Its not like mages magically got better core items. The general item has stayed the same over the season. Where you have other classes getting better items. In fact I would go to say that mage items have been nerfed more and more and given gimmicky items to "fix" the issues. But how many mages build Protobelt and GLP? Assassins build Gunblade. Both Muramana and Seraphs need something to be done, because they simply take too long to get fully stacked. In a game where inhib towers are being pressed at around 15-17 minutes. On Ryze I normally get tear at 4 minutes, RoA at 13 minutes, and a full Seraphs at 20 minutes. A good game Tear at 4 minutes, RoA at 11, and a full stacked Seraphs at 20 minutes. Notice a problem there? :) Even if I get ahead in lane. I can't use that lead to further myself like EVERY other champion if I go a tear route.

5: Agreed, with how much mobility is in the game, they need to do something about his kit. But they won't because he is played be very few people with high success. Because majority of people will pick him as a counter or into farm match ups. Their are a number of things they can do to make karthus a viable pick. 1: Make W damage people who dash through it and make them be slowed by 60% for 1 second. or if they walk through it leave it as it is. 2: Make the Q instant whenever his E is on. Making him extremely deadly to be right next to. And making his passive something to fear.

6: Yeah which isn't that a problem? Don't you think its a little unfair that Riot says that "Well we don't care about how Ryze or Azir or Sivir or Riven or Shv are doing right now because we want Orianna, Eve, Xin, Twitch, Ornn, Ardent, Xayah and Rakan. To all do well! Who cares about those players who main those champions!" How is a competitive game suppose to be competitive if the makers of the game continue to gimp champions that are GOOD or Are in OKAY standing because they want to swap something. I am not trying to advocate for a 50% win rate on EVERY champion at all elos because that will not happen. But at least address issues in a lane that went from being the most important to being a support for the ADC. S2, Mid and Top were the most important lanes with ADC's carrying the back end. Now its Bot is the most important ALWAYS. Hence why once a ADC gets ahead its extremely hard to get into the game.

Troll for Trump1 votes

1: Those (should) get nerfed. Assassins, for instance, recently.

2: Agreed, but his passive isn't useless. It basically makes him ungankable and unkillable in lane as long as he isn't extremely cocky. It's worse as the game progresses but it can still be occasionally helpful. His old passive wasn't super great with AP malz either. He should be rewarded for hitting multiple targets, but %dmg amp is bad because that's just going to dmg creep everything.

4: Tear is outdated yeah. Regarding core items, every rework has some items that aren't used. GLP and protobelt are pretty rarely used, but, to be honest, so is gunblade on assassins. You have LB, kata, and Akali, really. I do agree AP items are generally too weak, but I don't think you should have less gimmicky options, but more niche options. Mages have a severe lack of build variety, compared to AD champs

5: And his ult. It's so unreliable now, and early game it does almost nothing.

6: That's how metas work. Things rotate. Eventually, certain champs will reach the spotlight, while others will fall out. I don't think Riot really favors certain champs THAT much more than others, but they can be neglectful of out-of-meta champs.

Theorex1 votes

2: The problem with his ulti is that, its either too strong or completely useless. Against anyone with range or poke. You won't be able to just get in freely.

4: Everyone has been saying that for a while now. But tear specifically is really under the curve. It takes too long as it stands.

5: I suggest making it pen through invuns and untargetables. So that way these bs champions with team invuns have a champion they are worried about. And his early game damage is there. Its just extremely dependant on 1, skill. 2, lack of skill. 1: your skill, 2: enemy lack of skill.

6: But isn't that a bad game philosophy? That If We have One player Per Champion All at the same skill level. You are okay with 15 of them being Better than the rest of everyone else? Just because They have the better champion? I don't understand why people are okay with the Design team having this philosophy. The champions should be balanced.

Troll for Trump1 votes

2: in laning phase yeah. That's why siege champs are his counters. But later on he can just make picks on anyone caught out of position, or flash R (a lot of people, especially in KR go unsealed spellbook to help him catch ppl out with R). That's when his ult is most powerful.

4: Yes, the tear line is bad, especially the muramane route. Ez is the only user now I think.

5: The thing is early game he's too short-ranged to contest against a lot of mage poke, and too immobile to be aggro against assassins. So he excels against other farmers, who'll generally also play safe. I don't even think he has a particularly good matchup in mid lane

6: It isn't ideal, but metas always happen in every game, no matter how much the devs try to balance it. Riot tries to reduce the polarity of metas and make everything viable, but metas will always cycle in almost every game like this. DoTA, HoTS, SMITE, Battlerite, etc. all have this problem. It's not like Riot is intentionally controlling the meta though.

For instance, a certain class may be weak, and then they'll do a class update. Now that class is too strong. Then, they'll try to nerf them back in line. Similar things happen with champs.

Theorex1 votes

2: And that is exactly what I don't like about malzahar anymore. Everyone is playing him because of R. Not because they are skilled on him.

5: He doesn't have any good match ups mid, but if you are skilled on him you can Always Capitalize on mistakes and kill the enemy. Unless its someone like; LB, Akali, Zed, Talon, Fizz, Kass, Malz, Ryze, Cass, Azir, Orianna, Taliyah, Yasuo, Galio, Lucian, Corki, Ahri, Syndra, Zoe, Kata, Diana, Zyra, Morgana, Zilean, Lulu, Xerath, Ekko, A sol, Lux, Viktor, Veigar, Annie, Vlad, Vel, Wukong, TF, Morde, Lizz, Kayle, Jayce, Gp, Raka, Janna, and Fiddles.

6: True, and everyone will openly acknowledge that. But forcing meta changes isn't the way to combat it. Considering that we've had more of X meta than we have had of other metas.

Troll for Trump1 votes

2: Yeah, same.

6: But every change Riot makes, especially larger scale ones will inevitably lead to metas. If they buff all the AP items as you suggested, there would probably be a mage/Ap assassin meta as a result

Theorex1 votes

Nah, I am not saying to buff the AP items at all. I am saying give us more options.

Look at GW on tanks and ad's.

Its on hit for a short duration.

But GW is really only good during fights anyways. We don't need a GW that last 8 seconds that only works when someone is below 35% hp.

We don't need a full round item like Morellonomicon at the expense of gimping the other starting items for 10 minutes or 16 minutes.

We need situational items. Not every mage is like ADC's. We don't focus into the same thing. Malzahar, Brand, and a few others focus into the Rylai Torment combo.

Syndra Ahri Orianna focus into AP CDR Mana sustain

Ryze Cass Karthus focus into scaling items.

Then you have weird champions like A Sol, Viktor that have other things they are focused on.

So making a general build for all of them is near impossible without fucking a major catagory up.

So giving us more situational items is better than making a singular overpowered mage build path. Since again. All mages are different and focus into different things.

SB Arneeman1 votes

Orianna Azir are solid - you can carry hard with them. I guess they are more midgame than lategame focused now though.

Theorex1 votes

You're statement is true. Late game are champions that like Seraphs as a core item.

And Currently I can think of maybe 3 or 4 champions like that. That REALLY want that item.

Cass, Ryze, Karthus, and Anivia.

Anivia has the waveclear to be effective in mid.

DoktorKaiser1 votes

As an Orianna main I can only laugh as Zed, Kata, Zoe, Talon and other assassins rape me at all "stages" (read at all 15-20 mins) of the game. Perhaps she is better than other mages in lane, but I really couldn't know due to assassins and ADCs being played mid in 49 out of 50 games.

Theorex1 votes

[sg-syndra] Orianna main

SB Arneeman1 votes

They are strong but Orianna can deal with them when played well.

Vs Zed, position so he can't Q both you and a minion early and poke him as much as possible, but try not to push too hard. Remember that his shadow cooldown is 22 seconds and he max it last. Get stopwatch in runes to deny his R dmg, and go armguard into Zhonia after you have used stopwatch.

Katarina is difficult, but she struggles if you truly pay attention to avoiding her daggers. Be very careful after she gets gunblade since the slow sets up for an undodgeable 100-0 combo unless you flash. I often ban Kata.

Zoe is very annoying, but not actually that great at carrying. Stand behind, but not inside minions at all times if possible(or your frontline later). It blocks both her Q and E. You can get a free R off on her if you aim for the return pad of her R. She is quite easy to gank/collapse on for your jungler.

Talon is not that bad tbh. His engage range in lane is pretty short, if you walk out of the second part of his W and keep your distance he can't do much. You want to freeze lane vs him and harass him heavily whenever he goes for CS.

Against all these champions you want to ward both sides, and spam ping if they roam but don't follow the roams unless your team is ahead. Get turret damage instead. Orianna is better in fights in pretty much any teamcomp since she's a much safer champ with solid utility. You can also oneshot their backline as long as you've farmed well and have enough pen items. You may want stopwatch vs all these matchups to survive an all in and possibly kill them in return. Build Zhonia vs Zed, at least armguard vs Talon, and go Banshees vs Zoe and maybe Kata as well.

DoktorKaiser1 votes

No offense, I know you are just trying to help but I main Ori since her release and I am not retarded, I know how to deal with them, problem is that I have to play perfectly in combination with them fucking up to have a chance at winning any trade, if they play perfectly I can only cry in the base, not even at my tower since they are pathetic atm. Thing such as safe farming pick doesn't exist any more, you either stomp early or get fucked.

SB Arneeman1 votes

The meta is very snowbally, but you can still carry teamfights with Ori better than many assassins. Also, you mostly want to poke, not trade. If the assassins get behind, they are near useless, while you are not.

Stars Shaper1 votes

On the other hand, I hated Cassio and Orianna being the only viable choice for midlane for so freaking long. They had to nerf Aurelion Sol because 2 pro players and 0.2% of the playerbase got really good at him but having Cassio, Orianna and the occasional Syndra in each god damn match was ok.

Now you get the bench treatment and let ppl like Xerath have their fun please.

Theorex2 votes

Xerath isn't even good.

Grouping Cassio and Orianna into the same group is a bad idea.

The only thing that you can group them in is game changing ultis.

But then you need to add in viktor.

Also xerath is being played in the bot lane more right now anyways.. So?

Daddy Ants1 votes

Syndra is trash after her repeated train of nerfs.

This is why I hate seeing champs I enjoyed playing in competitive play because LC$ always results in nerfs for the champion.

Theorex1 votes

Actually we should remove the competitive scene from league, its toxic for the community :)

Sun Wu Ryuumoku1 votes

And late game guess what, you can't even kill the ADC in a 1 v 1 unless you catch them walking by a brush unwarded.

???? Why would u want a 1v1 during late ???

Look at Ryze, he was picked at worlds in season 7 and had a 36.6% win rate. Played by pro players.

still Faker one lost one time.

So again, why even play mages anymore?

dont group late mage with all mages

Theorex1 votes

1: I am saying if it came down to a mage vs an ADC the adc will win almost 100% of the time.

2: I don't get what you are trying to get at with that one ._. pro players are better than the rest of us, in general.

3: My bad, I should have said late in there. Thank you for pointing that out.

Sun Wu Ryuumoku1 votes

2: I don't get what you are trying to get at with that one ._. pro players are better than the rest of us, in general.

i say u complain about ryze state during world... and i point the fact Faker only lost one match with ryze.

Theorex1 votes

Alright, so if thats the standard you want to set for the game. Lets go that route. Lets have Faker or the best top or best adc or best support or best jungler. Play a champion. If they win with it. Lets nerf it. Because IF they do well it must mean that the champion is good or alright? Oh wait. I forgot, Ryze is made for Competitive scene. How can you ignore the REST of the pro players? Yeah the best mid laner lost 1 game of ryze. But how many times did he pick ryze? 2 times. Meaning he had a 50% win rate on Ryze. Hardly enough stats from one person to make them a valid point. That is why I went collective and picked everyone from worlds to represent Ryze.

Sun Wu Ryuumoku1 votes

It was his first defeat at international.

But its not my main point, to begin contrary to most here, i don't cry about x for a nerf. But u were complaining about the "weakness of ryze during world".

And u should look at the game where he was played. Even during his defeat, Ryze was strong as hell. MY MAIN POINT is Ryze is all but weak (and don't forget it was a f*cking ardent meta).

Theorex2 votes

True, but remember. Competitive scene vs normal league is a completely different ball game. Ryze is made for the competitive scene. Your arguement would hold grounds if we had voice comms in normal league. But its impossible for me to type at super sonic speeds during a team fight of who to go into my portal and who not to. Or what my portal is for etc etc etc.

Sun Wu Ryuumoku1 votes

usualy i would say ping would be enough... but most of time its like mates play without ping sound lmao. So i can agree, miscommunication is the worse ennemy of Ryze

Theorex2 votes

Not just Ryze, of everyone.

Somehow riot has found a way to justify not giving us comms for solo queue.

Because we REALLY needed comms when we are in a full premade lobby. :) Because apparently we aren't smart enough to use Discord, Vent, TS3, Twitch Chat, Skype, or anything else.

Void Baboon RF1 votes

You know what's even worse than a late game mage. A mid game mage. You lose vs every assassin in the game but you don't even get the opportunity to scale. It's truly a world experience.

Theorex1 votes

Mages generally all scale well into the late game.

I consider malzahar a mid game mage doing very well. Vlad seems to be doing very well. Orianna seems to be doing pretty well. They do have very clear and concise weaknesses, but its fairly evened out. But the reason I spoke about late game mages is because of the State of the Game. Its too fast paced, and the other late game scaling class is just better. Mid game mages are still stronger than ADC's. So you have a window to shine imo.

Valeckserai1 votes

I remember when I used to build item 3027 item 3040 first two items on Karthus, farm up, defend towers, stall until late game and finish it off with a item 3089 and I'd feel like a God with close to or over 1000 ap depending on what other items I got, running around and nuking those that entered my no no zone. Now days I can't honestly say I'm playing the game right if I don't just rush item 3165, because there is no defending towers or stalling the game out, and I need to be able to teamfight by 10/15 minutes in or I'm a minion. Karthus is still the playstyle that I love and isn't in a terrible spot either, but I really miss that late game fantasy of being a terrifying glass cannon. Now he's like a glass handgun. He still hits fairly hard and has the same strategy, but it just isn't the same.

Theorex1 votes

I agree with you, champions that want both of those items give up the mid game for it. If you have tons of practice on the champion you may be able to buy them both and get away with it. But then that comes with the expense of learning more champions as well.

Late game mages are put in a weird position right now because what sadly defines a late game mage is items. Stuff like Seraphs and RoA. I believe every other mage is better off though. With current morello.

The worse part is, is that the payout for late game mages isn't that great anymore with the easy access to life steal and MR for other classes.

Darius Strada1 votes

About item 3116 , I remember liker yesterday countless people ranting on boards about it and it's users, saying it was overloaded and stuff.

Theorex1 votes

I agree it was overloaded. That is why I said they needed to hit 1 stat. Not ALL three.

Imagine if everyone were complaining about IE.

Then Game Design team decided to nerf the increased damage to 175%, and 60 AD. But dropped 300 gold in price.

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