Things that 8.1 Should be addressing.

Theorex··70 votes·3,828 views

1: Duskblade, too many champions rely on duskblade to do what they can't. Assassinate people. You've removed power from champions and put too much into items. All supports that aren't Mages, are shield and heal support because of Locket and Redemption.

2: Snowballiness. Before anyone says anything. Yes I saw that they are going to address that in 8.2. But doesn't anyone else find that really dumb? THEY HAVE HAD A WHOLE SEASON AND ALL OF PRESEASON TO SEE THAT STATE. If that isn't enough. They have had a whole month to look at the numbers for patch 7.24b. CONSTRUCT ADDITIONAL PYLONS.

3: Turrets. Two things about turrets that I just now thought about.

3.1- AP champions are also gimped when compared to AD champions in the early game. When it comes to taking towers AD champions have a superior pushing power. Sorry I am a mage player, there are a few mages like Azir and Malzahar that can push really fast. But those DO NOT REPRESENT ALL MAGES.

3.2- Tower literally fall to two champions. So if you are top, mid, or bot and get repeat ganked. Even without dying and have to back after the 5 minute mark. Might as well go mid. Because that tower is dropping. That is bad for the game. Because 1: Mid Laners in Competitive are given to about 15-18 minutes to farm on both ends. Its almost a unspoken rule. Top and Bot will trade before they go mid. But in solo queue, everyone goes mid. But thats another discussion.

4: Bruisers? They aren't doing too well right now. I haven't seen anything about them. Bramble Vest? Makes a few champions in top lane unplayable. Trundle, Fiora, Irelia.

5: The terrible AP itemization. Not to mention Tear needs a buff. I have played enough ryze to notice this.

Lets compare Scimitar to Zhonya's. Both give offensive stat, and defensive stat.

Key difference.

One goes into stasis, other breaks all CC. But you can't use Zhonya's while CC'd. I would be okay with Zhonya's if you could use it while CC'd like by suppression, stuns, knock ups, displacements, etc. Then you would have a case of Zhonya's being broken. So if I am going to ward a area and I get Chain CC'd or if I make a mistake and get CC'd. I can't use Zhonya's. Where as if a champion with Scimitar makes a mistake, and gets caught with CC. They can QSS and get to safety.

Auto Magic Shield vs Activated Shield. Seraphs vs Maw.

Maw Will Auto Activate at a set HP. Where as if I get CC'd by anything I can't use Seraphs. At ALL. Imagine the number of times I could have turned around and started casting spells.

Morello's GW vs Bramble and Executioners.

Both Bramble and Executioners are on hit items. Thats cool, they last for a second. I like that. But why does morello require. A class of time based damage champions, to get someone below 35% hp. To apply GW on them? on top of that for 8 Seconds?! The reason why mages do not get a on spell cast GW item, it would make Vlad and swain Unplayable just like trundle, irelia, and fiora. At least the case down bot, is the heals aren't stupid strong. Unless its Raka.

Tear

Good Game: Backs at around 4 minutes to by tear of the goddess. Finishes Seraphs around 18-20 minutes. Bad Game: Backs at around 4 minutes to by tear of the godess. Finishes Seraphs around 20-23 minutes. The only good thing about this, is that you know you'll almost always get seraphs around 20 minutes.

Compare this to any other item other than Manamune. The payout is instant. The only three items that are HARD gimped by time is RoA, Manamune, and Seraphs. I am not saying buff the AP or AD they give you. But if the game is left with most players wanting to FF@15 or FF@20. Maybe its time to do something where if I buy tear at 4 minutes. I shouldn't be finishing it at 20. Its just punishing for being a mana hungry champion like Ryze. Where the spell he spams cost 100 mana. The equivalent to other champions ulti cost.

Sorry ADC Mains, nothing against you guys. But for the most part I think you guys are in a fairly good spot. Maybe a few of your ADC's are in a bad spot overall. But generally speaking you have supports and support from the rest of the team right now. The game overall is about just getting the ADC ahead and win the game off of that. So yeah, nothing about you guys.

Sorry as well Supports. Its too hard to address issues going on with you guys because anything that they do to you guys will impact what goes on for the rest of that patch. Heal and Shield supports get cucked? Tanks come out. Tanks get cucked? Mages come out. Speed of the game is pretty much determined by which one of the three is dominate at the moment.

Junglers: I said the number one thing first. Sorry if you are abusing Duskblade right now. They need to nerf that item. I wouldn't mind champions getting buffs IF they rely on that item. But something like Kha getting to proc it 4 or 5 times is rather dumb. Also they will make a little bit of space for the jungle meta to shift a bit.

Top: I didn't address Ornn because he was already being addressed. I probably missed a few other things that needed to be addressed up top.

Other Mid Laners: I know I didn't bring up anything massive other than Itemization. But lets be fair here. We all agree AP items are really shit.

107 Comments

D4M2X029 votes

riot were on holiday during pre-season and will start balancing league in 8.2 they are also nerfing blitzcrank and not even mentioning leona/alistar. turrets have been laughably weak for over a year.

the current balance team are casuals, broken champ abusers and always go on holiday and i dont see hope for season 8 until they actualy listen to what weve wanted for YEARS. they only give us their shitty "quick gameplay thoughts" after coming back from holiday and playing 1 game.

Theorex30 votes

Game Design Team*

They don't have a balance team anymore.

Everything in the game currently is intentional. Thats the idea behind the Game Design Team.

Balance team means that there are mistakes.

Game Design means everything was intentional for its sole purpose.

Meaning, anything that they do is for a purpose. Like Ardent Meta. Was solely to cause faker to lose at worlds. Its only goal. They knew what they were doing. Riot isn't allowed to say they made mistakes when they change the name of the Balance team to Game Design.

Game Design means Intentional Changes.

Balance Team fixing things out of line.

Ahristocats8 votes

holy this so much

Tails901612 votes

Like Ardent Meta. Was solely to cause faker to lose at worlds.

Sounds about right

sir d wreck2 votes

I'm not a huge e-sports guy, but can someone explain the context of this?

ampheon4 votes

SKT TI's teams typically consists of playmaking supports and poke style champions, while the Ardent meta was basically the enchanters and tanks using whatever they had in their arsenal to stop the adc from dying.

Basically SKT rarely compromises their playstyle for a meta, and this time it cost them.

HaIlMonitor2 votes

Was solely to cause faker to lose at worlds. Its only goal.

FAKER JUST SUCKED: HE IS NOT A GOD

AleksaTeemo5 votes

He isnt a god.But he is the best player in the world.Not his fault bang was playing worse than wood IV adc.

ampheon4 votes

A wood IV adc goes 0/10/2 by 10 minutes (speaking from personal experience)

Ahristocats17 votes

{quoted}

3.1- AP champions are also gimped when compared to AD champions in the early game. When it comes to taking towers AD champions have a superior pushing power. Sorry I am a mage player, there are a few mages like Azir and Malzahar that can push really fast. But those DO NOT REPRESENT ALL MAGES.

i play morde, the slowest champion when it comes to attack speed and can take a tower with a bunch of AP items (mages have an AP ratio on towers btw)

if i can do it, i'm sorry but you can do it with anyone stop being biased

Troll for Trump2 votes

Morde isn't a mage though. And Morde is one of the champs with the fastest siege in the game (although it's conditional)

Ahristocats4 votes

morde with an elder dragon cannot take a tower faster than jinx

even if he isn't a mage he has a slower attack speed than mages, and even less AP than them because he doesn't build full ap there is just biase here, mages take towers as fast as AD champions

if they have 500 ap, they will deal 60% AP+base AD damage on towers

Troll for Trump2 votes

morde with an elder dragon cannot take a tower faster than jinx

I said "Morde is one of the champs with the fastest siege in the game (although it's conditional)" He could also take Jinx off R and start wrecking towers. Again, it's conditional. He still has really strong pushing power.

even if he isn't a mage he has a slower attack speed than mages Slightly offset by his Q auto reset. The Q doesn't dmg turrets, but it still auto-resets. He also used to get sheen (and I still like to get Lich Bane/Triforce (esp. Tri) on him). Both AP and AP do dmg to turrets, so being hybrid doesn't necessarily mean he does less turret damage.

there is just biase here, mages take towers as fast as AD champions

No, they really don't.

if they have 500 ap, they will deal 60% AP+base AD damage on towers

Resistances, but ok. How are they getting 500 AP? The only way you can reach that number now is with Rabadon's or Veigar. That seems extremely unrealistic for a mage. Assume most games end at 2-3 items + boots. Runes I'm going to exclude because they can vary a bit more than items. Ori takes Sorc/Prec so that's 20 AP Malz is Sorc/Insp or Insp/Sorc so 20/22 AP Morde is Sorc/Prec so that's 20 AP. It roughly cancels out. Gathering storm is a preference thing so I won't include it

At 2 items: Orianna, a "standard" mage: item 3165 item 3285 =200 AP Malz, the best performing mage, who also has unusually strong pushing power for a mage: item 3165 item 3151 = 180 AP Morde: item 3285 item 3116 =175 AP or item 3146 item 3116 = 40 AD + 155 AP

At 3 items: Orianna: item 3285 item 3165 item 3157 = 270 AP Malz: item 3165 item 3116 item 3151 = 255 AP Morde: item 3116 item 3151 +Gunblade/Luden's. So: 235 AP or 215 AP + 40 AD

Base AD/atk speed needs to be considered too. Again, another guess. I'm assuming games end are decided around lvl 14 ish: Orianna: 71.8 AD / 0.658 Atk spd Malzahar: 91.3 AD / 0.625 Atk spd Mordekaiser: 121.5 AD / 0.601 Atk Spd

The stuff basically cancels out between AD and AP

Ahristocats1 votes

i was talking about late game

But if you're talking about mid game, mages shouldn't be able to take towers as fast as AD champions in early/mid game additionally 100 bonus magic damage on towers is enough to siege

Theorex2 votes

I agree, but remember how fast games are ending. Its not like I get rabadons that early if ever.

Our attack speeds aren't that fast either. If games were slower and turrets were more beefy. I would say that tower taking for mages is pretty fair. But most of the time. Tower taking is really slow until about the 25-30 minute mark for majority of mages.

Troll for Trump1 votes

But realistically mages won't reach THAT kind of lategame. Not anymore. By then, the game's been decided.

I agree that mages shouldn't be able to take towers fast early/mid as a tradeoff for their lategame teamfight power (which isn't reached very often anymore) unless they're specifically supposed to take them down quickly like Ziggs.

I just want to say that Morde's siege isn't exactly super weak, and is definitely better than that of a mage, practically speaking.

Mordepool3 votes

{quoted}

Morde isn't a mage though. And Morde is one of the champs with the fastest siege in the game (although it's conditional)

Wtf items do mages Build. Ludens. Lyandrais Rylais Deathcap Sorc boots

Check Mordes Build then come back and keep your opinion about Morde being a mage to yourself

Troll for Trump1 votes

then come back and keep your opinion about Morde being a mage to yourself

This isn't an opinion; it's a fact.

Morde can build full AP. He used to have an AD build that has been plummeting. Right now, he builds some combination item 3146 item 3152 item 3285 item 3116 item 3020 as his core items.

The reason he's not a mage is:

  1. He's melee. There just aren't any melee mages. He has an autoattack reset which also wants you to stick on to a person at melee range and whack them 3 times. No mage has that requirement because that is something found on bruisers or tanks, not mages. His W supports this style. Both encourage you sticking onto targets at a really close range, which mages don't do
  2. His passive shield which scales based off his HP. The only mage who has HP scaling is Vlad, and that's on his passive. That's a tank style ability. Very uncharacteristic for a mage. In addition to his passive shield, the ghost also scales off his HP. Again, other than vlad, no mage actually gets tank items. Current Mordes don't really get tank items on him because that playstyle has fallen out of favor, but it is still viable on him (again same with vlad). All other mages never get any tank item and find any success on them. They don't need to tank things. Morde does.
  3. He has 2 high AD ratio abilities. No mage has that. 3 if you include his ult ghost
  4. Basically all mages (maybe annie? Not really even her) don't get item 3146 or item 3152 ever, much less both. Assassins do. Things that need to get close to their target. That's because of Morde needing to stick at melee range to get his dmg off. Faceramming into things is not what mages do

The only "mage" part about his kit is the E max route where you just spam it in lane and autowin trades off of it. That's because it's ranged waveclear. In his current iteration, the original intent was for it to help him cs in bot lane. Before the rework, it was to help cs vs mages, as other melee mid laners (assassins) would have farm tools as well (Zed, Talon, etc). No other part of his kit is mage-like.

His playstyle isn't a mage. Don't classify him as one just because of his build. Teemo builds mage-like (currently) and does well with the items and he isn't a mage. Yi builds like an ADC and does well with the items but isn't one, etc. MF builds like an assassin and does well with it but isn't an assassin

Faulty comparison.

You also didn't address the part about Morde's unnaturally strong siege, which debunks your original comment completely

You're a morde main. You should know this.

Mordepool1 votes

{quoted}

You also didn't address the part about Morde's unnaturally strong siege, which debunks your original comment completely

Morde's second passive enable's a Team siege. Morde as a single champion doesn't have good sieging capability.

IF Morde gets a ghost near dragon pit IF he can kill the dragon with the ghost IF you siege a lane with 1 enemy champion you may be able to zone them off the tower by poking with Dragon (note that u can't get in tower range during this time) If you do all that by yourself maybe you get a tower to half health at best

Or you get team support and run down two towers with a full wave and five champions zoning enemy champions as you do.
Morde doesn't have good seiging by himself
I would know I'm a Morde main

Ok so you can understand why they made Mordekaiser a Hybrid champion .

From S1-S4 he was a fighter that played like a Battle Mage scaling with AP maxing E and would Poke until he could all in (like Jayce is now) But that's uninteractive and most matchups where determined at champ select.

Boom Juggernaut patch

Steraks gage was introduced which scaled with Base AD. Rename Morde as a juggernauts so we can drop his base Movement speed to the slowest in the game. So Certainlyt fucked his base stats up
And gave him Hybrid scaling his Base AD was made the best in the game because We Can't be having a item made for juggernauts unusable on a Juggernaut (Sorry urgot.)

He's not a traditional Mage but the definition of Mage has shifted a bit during the 8 years I've been playing but what would I know

Troll for Trump1 votes

Morde's passive is part of his kit still. I agree, his siege is conditional. I said that in the parenthesis.

He can't be classified as a mage well or a juggernaut. I'd say he's kinda unique in the way his kit works.

GayFluffyUnicorn7 votes

I actually think mages take towers too fast ever since riot give their AAs AP ratios to towers but i guess im in the minority here.

Ahristocats5 votes

oh i don't know, but they certainly don't take "too much time"

Theorex4 votes

AP champions are also gimped when compared to AD champions in the early game.

key statement here is in the early game.

AP gets 50% of their AP ratio as tower damage.

But for some champions our numbers don't get ridiculous that fast.

Theorex3 votes

The AP ratio is 50% of their AP. And remember the statement was about Early game. I think AP champions take towers hella fast late game with the elixir. The reason why I brought that up is because of HOW FAST the games are going. Not that the damage is too low. The topic was more about the speed of game than the damage to towers.

Mordepool7 votes

[{quoted}](name=I am Rubick Sama,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=As53uAZt,comment-id=0004,timestamp=2018-01-07T20:00:52.277+0000)

i play morde, the slowest champion when it comes to attack speed and can take a tower with a bunch of AP items (mages have an AP ratio on towers btw)

if i can do it, i'm sorry but you can do it with anyone stop being biased

Morde also has really high Base AD which helps.

HaIlMonitor2 votes

A bunch... cool. Now try a morello anymage vs an adc with equal amounts of gold in items. I would love to see which one wins.

Ahristocats3 votes

who the hell cares about who wins?

mages are still able to take a tower fast, maybe not as fast as an adc BUT they are mages

hello, they have other strengths you know? utility?cc?roaming? wave clear? burst from a higher range than 550?

AirKingNeo2 votes

A mage because a mage just full combos the ADC.

But regardless, 1v1 doesn't matter past 15 minutes for the most part.

AmazoX15 votes

#You want to remove power from Duskblade? HAHAHAH.

  • That won't happen unless ADC's receive a nerf to their right clicking challenger skills that nuke every AA.

  • The description of the thread is buffing everything related to mages. Everyone can do garbage tier comparisons stating strengths vs weakness between two things whether their characters,items or runes to make one strong while the other useless in comparison.

You're only viewing this from the perspective of a mage player, there's alot more depth than meets the eyes, how do you want Assassin's to be useful? You even admitted that you're a mage player in your own description, you didn't even look at the things from the side of an Assassin player.

Theorex5 votes

That is true. But I want to note something. When other champions outside of assassins start building Duskblade, is it not right for me to say that duskblade is perhaps a bit overtuned?

I don't want assassins removed from the game or anything, in fact. I want one of my favorite assassins back. She was a mage. Her name was LeBlanc. But currently sitting. Assassins with Duskblade are getting a bunch of benefits. From high early game damage to vision denial.

I did also mention that they should buff the champions that rely on Duskblade.

My statement is about making duskblade a fair and balanced item.

TengenToppaGnar3 votes

Leblanc is back as a more cancerous version of Karma in the support role.

Lethality is a broken asset in general, besides how overloaded Duskblade is for a single item.

Grievous Wounds on Mages is the way it is on purpose. I question why it lasts 8 seconds, but the primary reason is how each is proc'd. EC/MR are proc'd through any sort of Physical Damage, be they aa or ability based. Moro's is through any sort of Magic Damage* BV/Thorn getting your ass smacked by an AA

Lets break it down! EC/MR is meant for an ADC/Fighter Top to take, and its for ease of trades and dealing with pain in the arses like Mundo and Yi on a more offensive style. BV/Thorn is a Defensive piece, meant for being a damage soaker and forcing a foe like Yi or Vayne to attack you and be punished by being unable to just spam AAs like they could the rest. Rumble's Favorite Formal Wear :P

Moro's, the reason why we can't have an EC/MR type mage GW item, is the nature of mages and the style of their damage. MAGES, DOMINATE THE AREA OF DoT spells and passives. If you have a Moroello type item that applies Grevious wounds for any magic damage, DoT mages like Brand would abuse the fuck out of it. There is VERY VERY VERY few Physical DoTs in the game. I can generally only think of Darius' douchebag passive... that got a buff... why..... So they were compensated with the fact they generally burst the fuck out of most enemies in the first place, by being a given an item that is made to give you time for your Abilites to come off CD and finish the job. 35% Under HP, but an 8 Second GW duration!? Brand smacks you with anything that 8 seconds is now like 16 seconds >_>

Śhunpo1 votes

That is true. But I want to note something. When other champions outside of assassins start building Duskblade, is it not right for me to say that duskblade is perhaps a bit overtuned?

Jhin, Miss Fortune, Lucian (to an extent) and bruisers if they even slightly get ahead. Sure, the item is overloaded, but it's the only thing keeping AD assassins afloat because most of them apart from Zed had their reworks turn them into useless garbage without Duskblade.

I don't want assassins removed from the game or anything, in fact. I want one of my favorite assassins back. She was a mage. Her name was LeBlanc. But currently sitting. Assassins with Duskblade are getting a bunch of benefits. From high early game damage to vision denial.

Leblanc is awful because they tried to turn her into a mobile burst mage reliant on a delayed passive, since they nerfed all of her basic abilities base damages to the ground.

Furthermore, you can't complain, I lost both Rengar and Kat to the assassin update. Sure, they're decently fun now, but nowhere near as fun pre-rework.

I did also mention that they should buff the champions that rely on Duskblade.

Don't buff the champions who rely on Duskblade, just revert the AD assassins who do and remove the entire from the game. Plain and simple. Buffing them will do nothing since in order to do well they NEED Duskblade. Having this over reliance on an item which overperforms at its job of giving additional burst is never a good thing to have in the game. Hence why the assassin update failed overall.

Faceroll Tactics1 votes

Who else is building Duskblade? ADCs and Assassins.

So maybe it’s not Assassins being broken but ADCs abusing every item with attack damage on it? This isn’t a new concept, the flavor is just different this time.

Theorex1 votes

I should probably edit the post. Since its getting so many views. But on the other side of things. I would rather people tell me what they think seeing my bias towards mages.

Now to comment on what you wrote.

its not even just ADC's abusing it. Its stealth champions abusing it. The item on stealth is just dumb. Ever watch a kha do 80% of your hp with 2 autos and one click of R? Cause I have :D

Faceroll Tactics2 votes

An assassin building an assassin item?

If he’s doing that much then you’re isolated, which is a misplay on your part. If he isn’t getting punished for building full damage as a melee squishy with low base armor/mr/hp, that’s a misplay on your team’s part.

Schàdenfreude1 votes

Since when are ADCs building duskblade other than Jhin?

Theorex1 votes

Ever see an ezreal build duskblade? Its not first item, but is def. helps his damage, his vision control, and a few other things. MF? Graves?

Thefrostyviking4 votes

Some marksmen are probably a bit overtuned though, which is made twice as bad by the fact that some items and combinations are OP, like static shiv+IE combo.

Ever saw what happens when a Vayne gets like two kills in lane along with her farm for a early IE+static?

Brutal murder is a pretty spot on description, may any poor soul that has to face that rest in peace.

Twitch lategame is also pretty damn absurd.....not that he actually seems to get there anymore but we all know what happens if he does and we don't like it i think <.<

....well that's about my thoughts on the role, i am not actually sure if EZ is really op or not because i could those i play against and MF seems to have been dropping.

On other things however.

I don't really enjoy the current situation in which only the marksmen can restrain the "good" tanks, anyone else just get's CC'ed to death and can barely get past all those massive barriers and regenerating health bars. Some others´like Trundle would work if they get past laning well but they dont seem to do that.

Among the mages it's like only Malzahar......and maybe Cassio? Who can really do any damage to a tank, everyone else is just kinda cheering their marksman on.

So in short, some other class other then marksmen need to be given part of the marksmen's responsibility and ability to handle tanks if we ever want to even dream of a more open botlane.

And some marksmen could stand some small nerfs, while static can get thrown into a hole somewhere, preferably never to emerge again.

I think those would go a long way to make people less frustrated with the role.

Troll for Trump3 votes

You really can't compare the items like that. It's comparing apples to oranges, because the items serve different purposes.

Speed of the game is pretty much determined by which one of the three is dominate at the moment.

Supports are more symptoms of what's meta, rather than the people spearheading it. The exception was the ardent meta.

Junglers do too much, Bot lane does too much, Top and mid do comparatively too little, especially top.

AmazoX2 votes

{quoted}

You really can't compare the items like that. It's comparing apples to oranges, because the items serve different purposes.

Supports are more symptoms of what's meta, rather than the people spearheading it. The exception was the ardent meta.

Junglers do too much, Bot lane does too much, Top and mid do comparatively too little, especially top.

Top is being the Jungler's bitch while taking Rift Herald.

Kyunsei2 votes

Revitalize : Now works with health regen.

Nerf to Aftershock.

Sun Wu Ryuumoku2 votes

3.1- AP champions are also gimped when compared to AD champions in the early game. When it comes to taking towers AD champions have a superior pushing power. Sorry I am a mage player, there are a few mages like Azir and Malzahar that can push really fast. But those DO NOT REPRESENT ALL MAGES.

its not an issue. Its intended. Hope they won't buff this side of AP, top is already unfun.

4: Bruisers? They aren't doing too well right now. I haven't seen anything about them. Bramble Vest? Makes a few champions in top lane unplayable. Trundle, Fiora, Irelia.

Brumble vest isn't the issue atm.

5: The terrible AP itemization. Not to mention Tear needs a buff. I have played enough ryze to notice this.

its planned too.

One goes into stasis, other breaks all CC. But you can't use Zhonya's while CC'd. I would be okay with Zhonya's if you could use it while CC'd like by suppression, stuns, knock ups, displacements, etc. Then you would have a case of Zhonya's being broken. So if I am going to ward a area and I get Chain CC'd or if I make a mistake and get CC'd. I can't use Zhonya's. Where as if a champion with Scimitar makes a mistake, and gets caught with CC. They can QSS and get to safety.

i think its not an issue here too. Most of time its ur error. Mainly as mage player u rely on skill shot And u don't need to commit most of time. Banshee already help too. Point and clic hard cc like malzh need to be addressed tho.

Maw Will Auto Activate at a set HP. Where as if I get CC'd by anything I can't use Seraphs. At ALL. Imagine the number of times I could have turned around and started casting spells.

wtf this comparaison ??? think both item have same goal and same users ???

Sorry ADC Mains, nothing against you guys. But for the most part I think you guys are in a fairly good spot. Maybe a few of your ADC's are in a bad spot overall. But generally speaking you have supports and support from the rest of the team right now. The game overall is about just getting the ADC ahead and win the game off of that. So yeah, nothing about you guys.

hum... yeah... but ADC won't ever be in a bad spot. Like a role. Crit need to be nerfed or reworked hard.

1: Duskblade

dosn't need a nerf... but a light rework.

Top: I didn't address Ornn because he was already being addressed. I probably missed a few other things that needed to be addressed up top.

Tanks and range champ (panth include here) need to be nerfed. they cockblock toplane since age already.

GayFluffyUnicorn6 votes

Bramble vest IS the issue. Bramble vest is 50% what is wrong with toplane.

Terrible AP itemization, meanwhile mages oneshot people left and right due to true dmg they deal. The bullshit mage players spew around here is insane. As long as sorc+haunting guise+hilariously overtuned void staff exist there are no buffs to give to mages or better items. Gut them and open up build paths.

Duskblade needs heavy nerfs in its current form. Best thing would be to make it 3100 gold. Long swords 400 gold so assassins and jayce+riven can stop stacking 3 long swords+3 pots start. Serrated dirk 1200. Phage and jaurim unchanged. Ghost blade stays at 2900 and maybe give it 5 AD less. You wanna roam? Grab ghost. Want dmg? Grab duskblade. Duskblade internal cooldown of 2 seconds so no more 4 time proccs from kha zix.

Jinx Hunter1 votes

{quoted}

Bramble vest IS the issue. Bramble vest is 50% what is wrong with toplane.

Terrible AP itemization, meanwhile mages oneshot people left and right due to true dmg they deal. The bullshit mage players spew around here is insane. As long as sorc+haunting guise+hilariously overtuned void staff exist there are no buffs to give to mages or better items. Gut them and open up build paths.

Duskblade needs heavy nerfs in its current form. Best thing would be to make it 3100 gold. Long swords 400 gold so assassins and jayce+riven can stop stacking 3 long swords+3 pots start. Serrated dirk 1200. Phage and jaurim unchanged. Ghost blade stays at 2900 and maybe give it 5 AD less. You wanna roam? Grab ghost. Want dmg? Grab duskblade. Duskblade internal cooldown of 2 seconds so no more 4 time proccs from kha zix.

The only issue is, you nerf brambles, then Fiora is back to being OP, she still is but is just barely held in check by brambles. I would support brambles getting nerfed or removed, but only if Fiora finally gets the super nerf she deserves.

Sun Wu Ryuumoku1 votes

If Fiora is the only one sh*t op top its okay. Honestly if they're only one thing OP broken its manageable with a ban. But a few patch ago u needed to ban heimer, panth, jayce, teemo, ornn... (some are still broken in this list, but all are still cancer).

What Is Smite2 votes

I want to Address the Morello GW thing: Morello's use to be primarily built on AP poke mids back around season 3/4 when Athene's Holy Grail actually provided good stats, granted Mana regen was in the gutter at the time. Once they changed Athene's to become a support style item, Morello's reigned supreme as the go to 1st item rush in mid-lane.

Theorex1 votes

Yeah. But uhh... How does this relate to the GW thing?

What Is Smite1 votes

Because for Poke mages you'd take morello's to prevent the enemy from healing to a point where they can't be killed by one quick spell rotation, all-in/assassin mages would take Athene's because it gave mana back for every kill/assist you got allowing for more spell rotations. Morello's always had applied GW for 8 seconds specifically because it was meant for poke mages and their cd's weren't as short as they are now, there was also less CDR in the game during season 3/4.

To put it in simple terms: Morello's was meant to help poke mages secure kills

Sexy Jack Rabbit1 votes

Take into account that mages stack more AP then ADC's do Attack damage.

You have a mage reaching 400 - 600 Ap on average. 800 in some cases with champions that stack AP. Then you have Veigar .

an ADC is dealing 300 damage to a turret in the late-game. If AP's had a higher AP ratio against Turrets they'd be taking them faster then an ADC would.

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