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Guys, I know this is a weird way to do things but hear me out.

Theorex··32 votes·11,232 views

Listen, let the game design shit all over us mages for half of a season. Look at ADC's back in 2017.

They will quickly realize that they fucked up and over compensate by reducing the gold cost of three or four of our core items by 300 gold each.

And then also nerf the MR on other items, while gutting the stronger classes because "Mages" feel too weak.

I am completely for this change.

I'll explain.

1: Yes we lose base mana and mana overall. It doesn't effect our early game too hard. I am for that.

2: Blue now needs to be given to the mid laners. You'll notice that junglers that give blue to their mid laners that need it will have a higher success rate than junglers who just take the blues.

3: Champions that currently sit around and spam wave clear will be hurt a bunch by this change. Its actually extremely good. Wave Clearing roamers are hurt. Wave Clearers are Hurt. It forces some massive trades for trying to roam. As the game progresses. (saying your bot lane doesn't feed to fucking hell before 10 minutes, which is a rarity I know)

4: This opens up assassins to be dominate again, but not in the current style that we all remember. It allows them to build up pressure much easier now. Because mages have to watch both sustain of hp and usage of mana. Meaning that once you are in a 0 threat range they gain dominance.

5: This will force Game Design to take a look at things that are insane, such as manaless champions that are already strong. Vlad (not sure atm, getting back into the game). Akali with her stupid fucking healing. Kata with her unlimited shunpo. Zed with his high damage. Yas probably won't be touched.

TL;DR

Let Game Design fuck up mages for half a season. If you accept it now, its easier to swallow the pill and be like "Well, I tried my best. Its just my subset of champions suck at the current moment." Then when they go back around and give us over compensation, we can come out and completely make everyone cry for our misery. Just like ADC's did back in ADC's in 2017 lul. Cause Ardent happened right after that :D

46 Comments

Jinzo Torrance12 votes

They're increasing Tear cost by 100 while nerfing the mana refund on it and you believe they know what they are doing?

AmazoX1 votes

Pretty sure any Meta would include tanks in it unless they aren't tanks.

FrostQueensPlane11 votes

Repetoir already ruined by favorite champion, Malz, and left him in the dumpster so we already know they're perfectly capable of just destroying champions they don't play and forgetting about them. The only reason ADCs and supports continue to receive buffs is because 90% of the live design team plays adcs.

OP Garen Support1 votes

Well said. I miss the old Malza.

Theorex1 votes

As do I. Can we get a malzahar revert? Literally. I hate the passive, I hate the voidlings, I hate the W and R combined with each other, I hate the minimal damage he has in lane, and I hate the lack of wave clear.

DW Diana1 votes

{quoted}

Repetoir already ruined by favorite champion, Malz, and left him in the dumpster so we already know they're perfectly capable of just destroying champions they don't play and forgetting about them. The only reason ADCs and supports continue to receive buffs is because 90% of the live design team plays adcs.

Sorry to break it to you dude, but he's included in the nerfs as well. I'm also a malz main and felt someone should tell you not to bother visiting his grave, they're not done kicking him yet.

Bisaknosp9 votes

how is an assassin meta a good thing? getting 1shotted before you realize what just happened is aids plus i already see assassins do their jobs quite well whenever lulu/janna/tahm are not picked

OHminus5 votes

Yea, but the thing is, Riot won't do that. ADCs/Supports are their special babies, not mages.

What'll actually happen:

  1. Riot will screw over mages.

Fin

Bent Pixels4 votes

Im all for the assassin meta to come back. Tired of all these tanks

Duke Milkman23 votes

{quoted}

Im all for the assassin meta to come back. Tired of all these tanks

I'm fairly certain that if we had an assassin meta, it would force more people onto tanks since they would be the only champions capable of surviving assassin combos.

It Hertz When IP12 votes

Assassin meta should mean MORE tanks, because they're the only ones that could survive the initial burst.

SithesisLord1 votes

Assassin meta = Kayle/Lissandra meta to me.

Thefrostyviking1 votes

I see you have reached enlightenment too^^

ChaddyFantome4 votes

Just like ADC's did back in ADC's in 2017 lul.

Except ADCs weren't even weak back then.

AmazoX3 votes

{quoted}

Except ADCs weren't even weak back then.

That was a meme made by ADCS even though they were the strongest at the time, ADCS main at Reddit were the cause of it all!

Glory974 votes

Riot doesn't want mages to be that dominant in competitive. But it won't bring back assassins, as they are still way to easily countered by a peel-supp. The next era of midlane will be tanks. Bc mages are too limited by mana restraints to bully/ shove in the tanks anymore and buying just one-mr item is way too efficient. And once tanks start to dominate midlane, assassins will disappear in soloqueue as well, because soloqueue will pick up the lcs-trend of tankmidlane, and assassins are countered by tanks

Aptest1 votes

{quoted}

Riot doesn't want mages to be that dominant in competitive. But it won't bring back assassins, as they are still way to easily countered by a peel-supp. The next era of midlane will be tanks. Bc mages are too limited by mana restraints to bully/ shove in the tanks anymore and buying just one-mr item is way too efficient. And once tanks start to dominate midlane, assassins will disappear in soloqueue as well, because soloqueue will pick up the lcs-trend of tankmidlane, and assassins are countered by tanks

In that case we will see an increase in DPS-y type champions that can take out the tanks. I.E. fighters and Juggernauts. Not the ones that are "I kill ADCs" but the ones that have good overall brawling ability. Like Vladimir and Olaf and AAtrox.

Mogarl1 votes

Maybe, but countering a tank with a dps will lower your teams utility. Replace a mage that no longer functions well with a tank and you lose a bit of damage. Replace that mage with a dps and you lose a lot of utility.

In the end it's likely not to be a huge problem since mages have more consistent casting ability early, so anyone they gated from going mid is still going to be gated. With perfect CS Dorans ring gave 1.4 mana per second to mages (0.8 per second from cs 0.6 from 50% regen) Now mages have 1.4 mana per second regardless of CSing so it will be a bit harder to bully a mage and losing cs to harass only costs them the CS.

Aptest1 votes

{quoted}

Maybe, but countering a tank with a dps will lower your teams utility. Replace a mage that no longer functions well with a tank and you lose a bit of damage. Replace that mage with a dps and you lose a lot of utility.

In team fights, sure. But some DPSes can outright prevent team fights by pressuring side lanes. And that's ALSO a strong form of utility.

I am not saying that DPS will replace mage. I am saying DPS will come as a reaction against tank at a later stage. You can already see it in competitive. Sion VS Chogath was a common toplane, with Galio mid and Braum / TK bot. LOL's twitch channel is now featuring Vladimir and Gangplank the the premier top lane, which is a definite change from tank to DPS.

And it's going to be awesome for top laners because they have been stuck on playing tank for a while and we know most of them prefer playing DPS.

In the end it's likely not to be a huge problem since mages have more consistent casting ability early, so anyone they gated from going mid is still going to be gated. With perfect CS Dorans ring gave 1.4 mana per second to mages (0.8 per second from cs 0.6 from 50% regen) Now mages have 1.4 mana per second regardless of CSing so it will be a bit harder to bully a mage and losing cs to harass only costs them the CS.

Yeah im not really sure we're really going to see a disappearance of mages from mid lane as is "predicted". I think we are going to see assassins played more as they are going to be more lane dominant, and that will mean top and mid lane will have to be more concerned about each other's picks i.e. top forced to go tank because the cc will be needed vs assassin, or mid going assassin because opposing top chose to counter team's tank with a DPS (although im not sure if this is overall a wise choice? not sure how the champion dominance wheel spins in regards to this).

Overall i think the biggest advantage this change has is that it promotes blue buff as a mini objective rather than something for the jungler. That is something that side lanes can roam towards and participate in team play earlier in the game.

top lane has been feeling isolated for a while now and having a nearby objective to be defended / assaulted is good for the top lane experience. likewise for bot lane, less feeling like an xp pinata to be roamed to by the mid and jgl, and more like players of important power that must participate in their jgl's plays or defend their mid from a blue steal.

ChisatoShirasagi3 votes

Make Talon great again :D

Colton1473 votes

Skarner needs his blue. item 3070

SwiftKitten881 votes

{quoted}

Skarner needs his blue. item 3070

everyone fucking jungler that actaully uses mana needs thier blue, like sure if your trash'sai or lee or Ivern then you can give your blue to mid laner. but most junglers cant... and scarner isnt even AP.. you try to take blue from Fiddlesticks Nidalee Amumu Diana Gragas Nunu, you'll never get a gank the rest of the match...

Colton1471 votes

{quoted}

everyone fucking jungler that actaully uses mana needs thier blue, like sure if your trash'sai or lee or Ivern then you can give your blue to mid laner. but most junglers cant... and scarner isnt even AP.. you try to take blue from Fiddlesticks Nidalee Amumu Diana Gragas Nunu, you'll never get a gank the rest of the match...

Skarner is still quite blue reliant, especially in the early game.

AwesomeGuyDj1 votes

I've literally never ran out of mana as skarner. His spires are basically blue buff.

Malicious Metal3 votes

Wat.

Skarner never runs oom, his spires give him insane mana regen....

DorkunedAuras1 votes

Right. There's so many non-AP junglers who need blue, but Skarner? Skarner is the only one with a literal built in blue buff.

Anatera3 votes

They fucked up the game for half a year and havent done anything about it, why would they suddenly realize they made a mistake with mages sooner than that?

Keevalroy2 votes

They fucked up the game for **two and a half years **

Ftfy.

Saianna3 votes

Listen, let the game design shit all over us mages for half of a season.

It also shat on mages on mage rework, that so happen to be support rework in disguise. Then it proceed with shitting on us on minor updates or any time rito decided to rework a class, cause MR has to be cheaper and everywhere they can slap it on.

AmazoX1 votes

{quoted}

It also shat on mages on mage rework, that so happen to be support rework in disguise. Then it proceed with shitting on us on minor updates or any time rito decided to rework a class, cause MR has to be cheaper and everywhere they can slap it on.

You sir are High.

Saianna3 votes

Nope, just pretty good memory :)

AmazoX1 votes

{quoted}

Nope, just pretty good memory :)

You know nothing of Malzahar soloing all the elemental drakes except for infernal at level 2 without smite.

You know nothing of the 60% Win rate Malzahar.

You know nothing of Syndra and Orianna dominating mid lane during the finale of the season after mid season patch sparked it's way into the live servers.

Saianna4 votes

Oh right, because 1 overblown badly reworked and balanced champ = whole CLASS rework.

While Malz was OP for a "short time" the rest of mages were picking their teeths from the floor.

Syndra/Orianna are always strong. And they were strong then because they could live with shitty items, while other mages not so much.

I'm not saying those arguments you said are wrong, but compared to every mage that built ap, the MAGE CLASS REWORK update was utter fucking failure.

If you think about it, it's similar deal to ASSASSIN REWORK. Zed was fine, Katarina overblown.. Shaco... changed.. And the rest was garbage.

AmazoX1 votes

{quoted}

Oh right, because 1 overblown badly reworked and balanced champ = whole CLASS rework.

While Malz was OP for a "short time" the rest of mages were picking their teeths from the floor.

Syndra/Orianna are always strong. And they were strong then because they could live with shitty items, while other mages not so much.

I'm not saying those arguments you said are wrong, but compared to every mage that built ap, the MAGE CLASS REWORK update was utter fucking failure.

If you think about it, it's similar deal to ASSASSIN REWORK. Zed was fine, Katarina overblown.. Shaco... changed.. And the rest was garbage.

I am sorry but did you forget about Mages using Rylais Meta that lasted months

Saianna2 votes

For fucks sake. I am speaking about mage rework that happend like 2 years ago. And Rylai was nerfed to fucking ground back then. And all you do is jumping from 1 thing to another trying to find some solid argument.

I'm done talking with you, you are tiresome.

Nyarlathοtep2 votes

This will force Game Design to take a look at things that are insane, such as manaless champions that are already strong. Vlad (not sure atm, getting back into the game). Akali with her stupid fucking healing. Kata with her unlimited shunpo. Zed with his high damage. Yas probably won't be touched.

Yeah. I highly doubt riot will do anything about them actually.

Mizaya2 votes

They're already trying to make mages viable bot lane. The upcoming change is hardly the end of the changes they have aimed at mages, I'd assume.

Feel Apathy2 votes

2: Blue now needs to be given to the mid laners. You'll notice that junglers that give blue to their mid laners that need it will have a higher success rate than junglers who just take the blues.

False.

Khazix Takes his blue and his opponent's blue every game.

AmazoX1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Feel Apathy,realm=EUNE,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=9ExjM0AV,comment-id=000b,timestamp=2018-04-21T00:23:53.749+0000)

False.

Khazix Takes his blue and his opponent's blue every game.

Khazix takes the player's soul every match.

#FTFY

OP Garen Support2 votes

Yes because we got compensated so hard when Riot removed 500 AP from our items and mana potions.

SwiftKitten881 votes

{quoted}

2: Blue now needs to be given to the mid laners. You'll notice that junglers that give blue to their mid laners that need it will have a higher success rate than junglers who just take the blues.

you do realise that AP junglers, who are already pretty much non existent CAN'T do this... right?

like 90% one of time i am going to fucking smite my blue buff away if my mid laner fucking tries to take it...

adc can have my EVERY red buff after my first once and i wont give a damn if its not my lvl 6, 11, or 16.

but i am NEVER going to give up my fucking blue as Nidalee i would flat out NEVER have the mana to gank with more than a single spear.

AquariusGine1 votes

THANK YOU OP, I have the same thoughts

Gold Grenade1 votes

Definitely hear you on this one. It's the same cycle over again but for mages. I personally wish they would have TEMPORARILY removed the old runes from the game so they could have a way to balance all the champions then reactivated it.

This new combined janky system makes me so sad.

Neo Cyrus1 votes

Or we could just quit and play other games rather than play the weakest role in the game and "accept it".

Snowman Arc1 votes

Then, what is the point of picking a mage? Mage over assassin in mid lane is picked because the mage has priority in pushing out the lane, while the assassin has priority in all ins and roaming. If you take away the push power of a mage, then why would you pick a mage? Mage can't 1v1 an assassin after 6, they can't roam as effectively, they don't have the same durability because of the lack of mobility.

Wild Geese1 votes

Or, just leave things are they are and not screw up the game more in the long run...

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