% max hp true damage

Unward49·Sep 13, 2015·37 votes·2,452 views

In what FUCKING WORLD do the words in the title make sense in combination.

To paraphrase "Don't fucking bother building defenses, THEY DO NOTHING"

You gave a highly mobile champion the ability to just kill ANYTHING SHE WANTS TO in a set number of auto attacks. Defenses are how immobile champions DEAL with mobility! You can't make a fucking champion that scales insanely well with items also be fucking immune to the items that classically counter them. If Fiora gets ahead of you in lane, prepare to be 2v1 dove constantly. She WILL kill you with her fucking horseshit ult and then she will heal back up making it totally safe for herself and her jungler. Don't fucking bother trying to build hp or armor though, it does nothing. Your job is just to die horribly, over and over.

61 Comments

Buttigieg 2020Sep 13, 201517 votes

Counterplay, not counter build.

Fiora: you can see your vitals, leave her range and come back when they are in a better spot

Vayne: force her to attack different targets

Garen: kite him

I am truly sorry that you cannot just buy an item and negate 75% damage.

FillyCheezStaikSep 13, 20157 votes

[deleted]

Buttigieg 2020Sep 13, 20159 votes

It's not like garen is a melee with no gapclosers or anything....

LordGeovanniSep 13, 20155 votes

and builds more speed than hecerim before he uses his e and has a speed boots with a slow cleanse and not like teams typically have assassins you have to kite

Mecha MaIphiteSep 14, 20152 votes

One tank is more than enough to peel a Garen lol.

iamthegoatofwarSep 14, 20152 votes

if your tank is the villain though...rip my fed nasus top.

Mecha MaIphiteSep 14, 20151 votes

well if you're tank is the villain then your carries aren't, and won't get 100-0'd by him

TurquoiseYoshiSep 14, 20152 votes

A speed boost/silence isn't a gapcloser? I would call that a pretty good gapcloser.

And oh yeah, he gets tons of MS through items. An ADC can only invest so much into MS, while a Garen can go full-out with Dead Man's, Swiftness + Alacrity, Black Cleaver, and masteries.

iamthegoatofwarSep 14, 20152 votes

I believe they mean instant gap closer mate. I think they mean things like vayne Q, Lucian E, Fiora Q, ect.

hgjkdlsaf jeldvbSep 14, 20151 votes

dead man's plate, his q (which removes slows and gives him movespeed), and black cleaver want a word with you.

ConturbatioSep 14, 20151 votes

Lulu says hi.

LeeerzeichenSep 13, 201511 votes

i will never understand why people are complaining about % max hp true damage, but are totally fine with % damage reduction like alistars ult or gragas w. Armor or magic penetration is how carrys deal with high resistances. You can't make a fucking champion that scales insanely well with items also be fucking immune to the items that classically counter them.

Captain AishiSep 13, 20153 votes

which is why defensive items scale absolutely horribly compared to damage items, thus why people don't really complain 'too much' about % damage reduction (although people were actually complaining a lot about alistar when he was a popular top lane pick)

LeeerzeichenSep 13, 20155 votes

But damage items are absolutely horribly expensive compared to tank items.

Big LincolnSep 13, 20155 votes

and they're more gold efficient as a result

not seeing the problem here

LordGeovanniSep 14, 20152 votes

damage items are only slightly more expensive than tank items and most of them have some way beyond more the stats they give to negate the effectiveness of defensive items. ie % current hp damage, critical hit chance, critical hit damage, Life steal, penetration, % addition to stats you have, etc. not to mention since they give damage stats it makes it easier to obtain gold than tanks so in addition to being better than tank items they can also be gotten sooner.

LordGeovanniSep 14, 20151 votes

offensive items are far more effective than defensive items riot straight out doesnt not want tanky characters that can survive tons of damage
characters that can do that are able to build damage or have horrible damage
permanent % hp true damage on super mobile hyper carries that also have cc and built in damage steriods (in garens defensive steroids) and they all have high scaleings of damage
permanent % hp true damage goes through % damage reduction

CrettSep 14, 20152 votes

Those are temporary effects, and you can actually still damage them, so your items aren't worthless anyways What on earth are tanks supposed to do when they aren't at all durable? % Pen is a counter to a counter, which is really really lame for tanks. Now that what they've built is worthless, what are their options?

A Miss FortuneSep 13, 20157 votes

I remember when everyone said Fiora was garbage and her heal was absolutely useless and even her % health true damage was bad.

Now look.

RainofBlackTearsSep 13, 20152 votes

Unfortunately most cant predict what things will be on live... not saying it isnt hilarious on what people said, and that people find her completely broken

Axis the DragonSep 14, 20151 votes

She got hotfix buffed like, 2 days after release, though. Well, 1 day, 2 days, whatever, but she essentially was too weak on release. Riot just massively overtuned the numbers on her buff.

ConturbatioSep 14, 20151 votes

They only reduced the CD on her Q & W by like 2 seconds at all ranks, not really a huge buff.

But her HP is getting nerfed next patch.

iamthegoatofwarSep 14, 20151 votes

ok you say 2 seconds isn't much but inmagine if riven had a nerf of the same kind. 2 seconds longer on her Q and W. This would be a huge nerf (whiich would honestly help put her in a decentish spot).

Every second counts.

ConturbatioSep 14, 20151 votes

60% of the cd is refuneded when you hit something, before, it was 4, now it's 3.2 cd on her Q. With 40% cdr that's 2.4 cd before the hotfix, and 1.92 cd after the hotfix. The total CD without hitting a target is 6 seconds before, and 4.8 seconds when you get 40% CDR. It's only a buff if you're escaping/lunging over walls...etc.

Axis the DragonSep 14, 20152 votes

HEALTH GROWTH STAT 80 ⇒ 92 ATTACK DAMAGE GROWTH STAT 2.5 ⇒ 3.3

Q - Lunge COOLDOWN 18/16/14/12/10 seconds ⇒ 16/14/12/10/8 seconds COOLDOWN ON ENEMY HIT 7.2/6.4/5.6/4.8/4 seconds ⇒ 6.4/5.6/4.8/4/3.2 seconds COST 25/30/35/40/45 mana ⇒ 20/25/30/35/40 mana

W - Riposte COOLDOWN 21/19.5/18/16.5/15 seconds ⇒ 19/18/17/16/15 seconds

Sure, it's not a major buff on a single thing, but that's a a lot of little buffs that really do stack up together

ConturbatioSep 14, 20151 votes

Well, her HP per lvl got nerfed along with her base HP and base armor. So I guess she's fine.

Axis the DragonSep 15, 20151 votes

I suppose only time will tell

ConturbatioSep 15, 20151 votes

Yes, I'll just wait for patch 5.18 and see how she'll perform.

urfie27Sep 17, 20151 votes

She's clearly not fine because she instantly show up in winrate and pick rate with the buffs. Buff's don't work 1 for 1, the cooldown decrease was MASSIVE, because it gets reduced on hit, and each second removed is more and more power

ConturbatioSep 17, 20151 votes

Her winratio increased by like 2% after her rework. Only her popularity increased drastically since, well... She's a new champion after her rework.

The on-hit cd on her Q got reduced by 0.48 seconds (1.92 down from 2.4).

urfie27Sep 17, 20151 votes

Those are pretty substantial buffs for a hotfix

Silents429Sep 13, 20155 votes

I wonder what the thought process is for people who make these threads, like do they think they are unique or that no one has complained about this before, "I will be different."

What's the point? You get the same group of people agreeing about Vayne and all that shit, you get the Vayne mains downvoted to hell, you get the guy trashing Riot get upvoted, and then you get the slightly less upvoted guy explaining her counters and how fucking stupid people are acting.

Dr PoroSep 13, 20154 votes

Kill her before she kills you.

CrettSep 14, 20153 votes

Zac :[

GottaGoToSpaceSep 13, 20153 votes

People don't seem to realize that building health and resistances will always be useful unless you receive 100% hp true damage.

CrettSep 14, 20152 votes

Not useful against that champion Fiora nears 20% true damage on her passive by the end of the game. I've seen 250 armor 4000 HP tanks die within 3 seconds from Fiora

Not to mention Tanks melt under normal physical damage anyways. They don't get a 250% multiplier to their HP like ADCs do (well technically they do, but it's 59% as effective after penetration is applied)

XeynidSep 14, 20153 votes

You can't counter the true damage. However, you don't need to. It's like 10% of her overall damage output. The vast majority of it is physical.

The true damage is just there to guarantee that she can't be stopped by armor stacking, because she's supposed to be a late game monster regardless of what you build if you let her get that far.

Right now, she's overpowered because you can't stop her from getting that far, but that's a different matter.

KrinuSep 14, 20153 votes

You can build attack speed slows (Randuin's, for example) but that's about it.

Honestly, Vayne's silver bolts probably aren't that overpowered as these things go. I dislike them from an overall balance perspective because there's not really anything I can do about them. Everything else you can take gearing action against in some way - true damage can be offset with health, physical with armor, magic with MR, crits with Randuin's, AAs with Ninja Tabi and Thornmail - but it feels really bad playing against percent max health true damage because there aren't any gear options I can use.

The mechanic itself isn't the end of the world when used sparingly and appropriately - certain execution style ultimates, for example - but on autoattacks? That's not fun.

KayleeTSep 13, 20152 votes

item 3140 item 3139 item 3157

RisenDarkKnightSep 14, 20151 votes

That isn't a solution to her passive true damage. Sure it let's you cleanse her ult, but the main tank is ususally the top laner who will be laning against her anyway. None of those items are effective on tanky top laners, and the cooldowns are way too long to remove her passive. Meanwhile you can't effectively itemize against her.

RisenDarkKnightSep 14, 20152 votes

Yeah I used to like picking malphite into fiora and just stacking armor. Haha doesn't work at all now. Instead of having to auto attack you with physical damage, she just dashes by you doing all that true damage and you can't itemize against her at all. IDK what champs even work against her since all of her traditional counter don't seem to work anymore (i.e. jax, used to outdule with his e, now fiora just damages him with her q on a vital then reflects the stun back at him with her w and destroys him). Irelia's stun gets countered, IDK who even works now. Maybe riven?

ConturbatioSep 14, 20151 votes

Ranged champions like Quinn & Teemo work very well against her. Only your Q & W can hit through blinding, and that'll only deal like 7% of their max hp which is really low, while suffering a lot of kiting from those ranged champions. P.S: Even Lulu works well against Fiora.

And no, she doesn't win against tanks mainly because of her true dmg, she wins because she heals many times off the vitals since the trades are usually prolonged since tanks don't do much damage. A full AP xin would make it feel the same.

3tysonSep 13, 20151 votes

dont get it this pretty much exactly what fiora always did what ur upset about also irelia

Unward49Sep 13, 20152 votes

{quoted}

dont get it this pretty much exactly what fiora always did what ur upset about also irelia

No, what she used to do was just shit loads of physical damage. You can build armor against that. You cannot build armor against %max hp true damage. You can't build ANYTHING against that. That's the point. She gets multiplicative scaling on her AD items, and you get utter dick on your defensive items.

3tysonSep 14, 20153 votes

Best defence against fiora is ghost bladd helps run away faster

ConturbatioSep 14, 20151 votes

People keep ignoring the fact that HP % true damage isn't what makes Fiora OP. In fact, her true dmg early game is garbage, she uses her passive early game only to poke, heal off and retreat without taking damage, kinda like Ahri's Q. The problem is the free critical strike on her E, giving her the ability to one-shot squishies without even proc'ing a single vital. You just Q-AA-E-AA-Tiamat-AA and they're dead (or left with 20% HP) mid-late game.

But oh no, people prefer to join the % max hp true damage circlejerk instead of analyzing the champion itself.

PerishSoftlySep 14, 20151 votes

Good Fioras can reliably proc 2-3 vitals on a target during her ult which can account for over 30% of their maximum hp in addition to her damage. That's not insignificant at all, in fact it's horrific considering if she gets even one, her team kills the target and gets an AD scaling Janna ult for themselves.