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Ok I get having easy champions in the game but these champions shouldn't be top tier duelists

Hammermancer··3 votes·1,263 views

Seriously, the idea of a champion who can 1v1 anyone due to mechanical skill, and even sometimes 1v3 is one thing, the idea of it being Garen Jax Olaf Nocturne who are seriously fun champs but c'mon man, people play Riven Yasuo Irelia Akali Fiora for a reason, because the idea is that with time and practice you can win fights out of your favor, due to the limitations of the opposing champion, and the utility within your kit. In exchange these champions are usually pretty hard to fully master, and frankly they should be.

I giggle when I lose a 1v1 on skill champs, I get salty when it's somthing that literally just gets a million free stats and auto attacks me to death within 2 seconds while also being insanely tanky and having no skill floor.

Look if you want to make garen into a front line team fighter or make him into a more complex champion then yeah, but him just silencing you for 15-30% of your hp, then hitting E, then hitting R, is just like... dude c'mon, his entire character is point and click walk on you

Like imagine if jax had a real kit, something that actually said "I know my champion and that's why i beat you in a fight" as opposed to "I finished my triforce and that's why i beat you in a fight"

18 Comments

Pika Fox3 votes

Being harder to play =/= win by default. That would be dumb, easy to play champions should be just as good.

Hammermancer3 votes

Being mastered on a skill based champ who is designed to fight should be a win

Easy to play champions should not be just as good, because that in effect makes hard to play champions worse in every aspect

if you master something difficult then you have a less diverse champion pool than someone who is a jack of all trades.

Pika Fox2 votes

If the easier to play champ is better in the matchup, the easier champ SHOULD win. Riot already stated their stance on this when hotshotgg got nidalee nerfed; being a difficult champion on its own should not mean the champion is better than an easier champion, if both are played optimally. This would ruin any basics of gameplay balance.

Hammermancer1 votes

It's not balanced then because you have something that has equal potential and more reliability, it comepletely negates the do or die mentality of these skill based champions

I just don't think a fourth game garen should be able to 1v1 a 2 million mastery point riven just because he has a dead man's plate and a cleaver no matter how perfectly she plays

It literally means they don't factor in reliability into the equation

Anyways this is a fucking competitive game, the better competitor should win based on the player level of skill above all else

Pika Fox1 votes

Its also a 5v5, not a 1v1. Garen beating down riven doesnt prevent riven from going elsewhere. Its also rivens fault for either first picking a feast/famine champ, or picking her into garen (assuming garen beats riven).

Hammermancer1 votes

First off i'm obviously not referring to macro, I'm referring to micro 1v1's which is a niche of the game that is so big that it has entire champion pools dedicated to it.

So the things that are stat checks and not about any skill other than looking at the tier list for the meta are definitely an expression of skill

Oh boy jax is strong, better pick jax, what's that? a 5.4 million mastery point azir? well better just 1shot him while having triple his health and double his resists, im good at this game cause i can look up champion tier listing.

That's not fucking skill, I'm not referring to someone knowing "I'm good at taking towers, i'll go here" i'm referring to something that outscales, with less skill in one dimension required to carry, but can't even be beaten by champions that have high skill requirements to even function and have a kit designed for dueling.

You shouldn't be able to fucking outduel a duelist if you're not one, sorry-not-sorry

Pika Fox1 votes

Jax is a duelist. Hate to break it to you. And sucks to be you, but your opinion is wrong and would be terrible for game balance.

Hammermancer1 votes

Yeah basing the game off of skill instead of stat checks would totally ruin it

Pika Fox1 votes

It would, because what your suggesting would invalidate all champions that arent azir, ryze, nid, jayce or elise.

Hammermancer1 votes

All the other champs are peasant champions for people with no class

let them suckle the teets of skill

Pika Fox1 votes

All that would happen is youd still get your ass kicked by the same people, and youd need to find a new thing to complain about. The ones that complain about "no skill champs" are generally the ones lacking any skill.

SithesisLord1 votes

But it is somewhat based around skill.

Just not the skill you think.

fraggleroc1 votes

Have u watched twitch channel one trick Garens? the effort put into playing certain lanes...

he has plenty of bad matchups too... u cant say they're easy

I hate people like u. I bet u havent even played earnestly any of those champs.

Hammermancer1 votes

{quoted}

Have u watched twitch channel one trick Garens? the effort put into playing certain lanes...

he has plenty of bad matchups too... u cant say they're easy

I hate people like u. I bet u havent even played earnestly any of those champs.

... i even said i liked garen,

no i have played garen, as much as most other people. got him m7.

Jax? i've played him a few times... again.. no skill required, you can roll your face over the keyboard to win as jax, hell you can 1v4 with a lead.

Hayaishi21 votes

The game is not balanced around 1v1. Who cares if Garen wipes the floor with Riven 1v1? Riven can do a lot of things Garen can't, she's a better skirmisher and can make ridiculous plays while everyone can agree Garen it's easy to deal with outside of 1v1 scenarios.

NemeBro1 votes

{quoted}

Seriously, the idea of a champion who can 1v1 anyone due to mechanical skill, and even sometimes 1v3 is one thing, the idea of it being Garen Jax Olaf Nocturne who are seriously fun champs but c'mon man, people play Riven Yasuo Irelia Akali Fiora for a reason, because the idea is that with time and practice you can win fights out of your favor, due to the limitations of the opposing champion, and the utility within your kit. In exchange these champions are usually pretty hard to fully master, and frankly they should be.

I giggle when I lose a 1v1 on skill champs, I get salty when it's somthing that literally just gets a million free stats and auto attacks me to death within 2 seconds while also being insanely tanky and having no skill floor.

Look if you want to make garen into a front line team fighter or make him into a more complex champion then yeah, but him just silencing you for 15-30% of your hp, then hitting E, then hitting R, is just like... dude c'mon, his entire character is point and click walk on you

Like imagine if jax had a real kit, something that actually said "I know my champion and that's why i beat you in a fight" as opposed to "I finished my triforce and that's why i beat you in a fight"

Of the champions you posted, only Jax and maybe Olaf are particularly top shelf duelists as the game goes on, and Olaf is a hard maybe. Garen's dueling ability is okay at best for his class. Late game he will get shit on by any of those champions except Akali and maybe Irelia and Riven. Akali being an assassin, not a duelist, Irelia being more of a team fighting bruiser who isolates and kills squishies, and Riven being a high-burst skirmisher who deletes ADCs from the map. And frankly, Irelia and Riven still probably beat Garen and Noc late game, as long as they aren't fighting Garen while being the Villain. There are very few champions who can 1v1 Garen while they are the Villain, but why would you try in that case?

Yasuo and especially Fiora will easily kill all of the "easy" champions 1v1 late game with the exception of Jax, who Fiora might still beat, though Yasuo can not.

But regardless, who cares? The game isn't just about 1v1s. Dueling has its place in the game, but is only one factor of the game.

CHEWYARMS1 votes

Are we pretending that any of those champs you listed second are hard to play? Lol

NemeBro1 votes

{quoted}

Are we pretending that any of those champs you listed second are hard to play? Lol

Harder to play than someone like, idk, Yorick or Urgot.

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