Sorry, but I'm not autofilling.

trash sion·Nov 23, 2016·260 votes·10,487 views

I understand you'd like to shorten queue times, but I know I as well as many others would prefer a longer queue in return for teammates getting one of their better roles.

I have two rune pages. If I'm not set up to ADC or Support, then my team is at an inherent disadvantage because I might only have AP pages ready.

I want teammates in one of their preferred roles (I'd actually like to see a single role selection, but I know it won't happen) so that we have a good chance of winning.

Quality over quantity, my friends. No game is fun when in champ select you already have people complaining about being forced into an off-role and that they'll "try not to feed."

So, yeah. If you force me to fill something I didn't queue for, I'm not doing it. Whether that mean we duo top or jungle, or I pull the trusty Singed Support, I'm not doing it. Sorry, not sorry. I want quality games, not a ton of shitty ones.

420 Comments

JadNov 23, 201641 votes

I'd wait longer for a role I wanted. The games just seem unfair, people getting a random role they might not even be good at.

trash sionNov 23, 201616 votes

Exactly. It's like reverting to the old ranked system where it was just pick order. No guarantees you'll get the role you want, and you may actually get your worst role.

I would love to play my best role, and I'd say my teammates would want me in my best role too. I mean, it's their LP as well.

DarkRitualNov 23, 201610 votes

The difference here is that your two selected roles have a higher weight for role selection. Before it was pure chance to get first pick (where you also got to have a ban, talk about lucky!) and get the most popular role.

I used to get priased a lot more in champ select back then. Those people who got 5th pick suddenly not having to support!

GayFluffyUnicornNov 24, 20164 votes

That's not true. It was never random who got first pick. The player with the highest mmr out of your team got first pick. Last pick the lowest mmr and everything in between random. For duos it was even more complicated. Riot then changed it to first and last pick being random. But generally the higher the MMR the higher your position.

My Waifu VanillaNov 24, 20169 votes

Pretty sure they removed that in like season 3.

LA LostyNov 24, 20168 votes

PTSD flashback to when i had 4 junglers autofilled which caused me to drop from D1.

IpressbuttonNov 23, 201632 votes

I want quality games too, please don't put me in queue with OP and his 2 rune pages

resumedNov 24, 201611 votes

tfw new player

tfw rune pages are more expensive than champions

tfw specific champions require specific runes

tfw 16000 ip to play ONE champion effectively

[zombie-nunu-bummed]

AptestNov 24, 20166 votes

you can go up to gold with 2 rune pages and play all roles with them and 30 champions.

"effectively" you mean "the best in all situations". you don't need that extra 2%. negligible compared to game-play

Jax CramerNov 23, 201624 votes

I respect that.

Maybe if there was no retarded flex q we would have enough people playing solo that no one would need to get autofilled.

trash sionNov 23, 201679 votes

I don't see a problem with having two queues, but people seem to think a 5 minute queue time is outrageous. Is 3 minutes really better than 5-10 if you're just gonna have a shitty time anyway? I'd rather just sit and wait the extra 5 minutes than be placed into a cancerous game for 45 that I'm held hostage in.

In higher elos I could see queue times becoming a problem, but that's not really the fault of role select. That's just the fact that you're great at the game and only a handful of people can be fairly matched against you at all.

Jax CramerNov 23, 201641 votes

I dont mind waiting 10 mins instead of 3 if it leads to a better game. I don't think many people do.

trash sionNov 23, 201627 votes

Exactly. And if you DO mind the long queue times, queue fill. You won't get your favorite role most of the time, but you'll get games fast.

LA LostyNov 24, 201621 votes

This, why is autofill a thing when you already have to option to fill if you want shorter queues???

Battlecast SonaNov 24, 20169 votes

sadly the reality for players in Diamond+ is that it's not "a couple of minutes" it's "my queue times are longer than my games"

LA LostyNov 24, 20163 votes

I peaked in D1 so i am well aware of the queuetimes. It has gotten a lot better than it used to be and i would much rather wait 5 or even 10 more min and have a fair, fun and competitive match rather than get stuck in a 20 min fiesta that noone enjoys. I have had my entire team autofilled before. How is it competitive and how are we supposed to show off our skill if we are forced into roles we dont play? We already have the fill option so why force it upon those of us who dont wish to use it?

jaymc1130Nov 24, 20164 votes

{quoted}

I peaked in D1 so i am well aware of the queuetimes. It has gotten a lot better than it used to be and i would much rather wait 5 or even 10 more min and have a fair, fun and competitive match rather than get stuck in a 20 min fiesta that noone enjoys. I have had my entire team autofilled before. How is it competitive and how are we supposed to show off our skill if we are forced into roles we dont play? We already have the fill option so why force it upon those of us who dont wish to use it?

Because the population of high level players has a disproportionate percentage of carry players.

Quite simply, there are 3 junglers, 2 mids, 2 adcs, and 2 top lane mains for every single support main at this level of play. Support is 20% of a teams roster. The population of support mains in high level play is significantly less than 10%. There aren't even half enough to go around.

In short, its not a matter of waiting 5 or 10 more minutes for your preferred role at this level of play. You will become gated by such a feature according to how many players are playing support at a given time. If you do what you desire here you might not be waiting 5 extra minutes to get into a game as your preferred role. You might be waiting HOURS, as players who queue ahead of you, who also need support (or any other role depending on the situation) finally get a support paired, play the game, finish it, then the support is immediately plugged into the next set of people who queued up. In order. That means wherever you were in the ORDER of players queuing up is when you will be matched for a game. This could make queue times for diamond and up increase by orders of magnitude as multiple games might have to be completed by a support player before they can finally be matched with you. And you will HAVE to remain in queue for the ENTIRE duration of the wait time or you lose your spot. So if you exit out of the queue before it matches you, you are now the BACK of the line. Meaning however long you already waited... was in vain.

This would be a very, very bad change and is why it will never happen.

Honestly, if you are playing in diamond level play you SHOULD be capable of playing any role to a functional degree, even if you aren't good at it, you should be able to consistently perform your job and role function in games even if you perform it at a less than optimal level.

This is by far the best thing for the health of the game.

Role Selection did nothing but give poor players a crutch to avoid having to learn basic gameplay fundamentals.

The quality of matches in all past seasons was infinitely better than it was in this last season. The best thing for the health of the game would probably be to revert to pick order and require players to *GASP* use teamwork skills in lobby and effective communication to get each player in an ideal situation to contribute to team success. The game was MUCH better when it was done that way.

LA LostyNov 24, 20162 votes

I dont really have a problem with the queue times. Even the long queues where i end up getting autofilled do not even come close to what you are describing, so quit exaggerating. It should at least be a CHOICE, if you dont want to pick autofill, sure, you take the risk of long queue times, which might not even impact you at all, or to a very little extend but the choice should be there. Also when you play on such a high level knowing the basics of a role is rarely enough, besides that doesnt display your actual skill or full capabilities. Pretty much EVERYONE have roles or champions they are much better at. Pros play suck at some other roles or champions aswell so how are we expected to have a competitive match when people playing their worst roles can face against people playing their main roles. There is a hell of a difference between "knowing the basics" and maining a role. Those who do not main the role are likely going to get completely dumpstered. I dont see why autofill is considered a good option what so ever, in some cases it might help but at least make it a choice. I would rather spend 30 min in queue than 10 min in queue and a 20 min game where i get stomped due to unfair teams. You end up wasting just as much time anyway.

jaymc1130Nov 24, 20163 votes

{quoted}

I dont really have a problem with the queue times. Even the long queues where i end up getting autofilled do not even come close to what you are describing, so quit exaggerating. It should at least be a CHOICE, if you dont want to pick autofill, sure, you take the risk of long queue times, which might not even impact you at all, or to a very little extend but the choice should be there. Also when you play on such a high level knowing the basics of a role is rarely enough, besides that doesnt display your actual skill or full capabilities. Pretty much EVERYONE have roles or champions they are much better at. Pros play suck at some other roles or champions aswell so how are we expected to have a competitive match when people playing their worst roles can face against people playing their main roles. There is a hell of a difference between "knowing the basics" and maining a role. Those who do not main the role are likely going to get completely dumpstered. I dont see why autofill is considered a good option what so ever, in some cases it might help but at least make it a choice. I would rather spend 30 min in queue than 10 min in queue and a 20 min game where i get stomped due to unfair teams. You end up wasting just as much time anyway.

Well NOW you aren't even discussing issues related to autofill when you are talking about players being better in one role than another. This is a given and a fundamental fact. Players are going to be better or worse at different things depending on the amount of time and experience they have put into working on these things. But this isn't an issue that has anything to do with Role Selection, or even autofill.

That's a straight up issue with the ineffective and largely pointless ladder system which, for years, has consistently failed to accurately capture a players skill set and, in turn, failed to accurately pair them in matches. If you want THAT issue solved you need to rework the ranking system so that is no longer largely affected mostly by chance and luck and retool it to take into account more information about a person's individual skill metrics. Once you do this you can can more appropriately distill a player's skill set and then, with this new, more accurate ranking, players can be paired better to improve the quality of matches, even those in which a player must "fill" instead of getting his desired role.

I wasn't exaggerating when I said that doing what you want and making autofill an opt into option would increase wait times for those choosing that option by orders of magnitude. That's just basic statistics. That's reality. And because that happens to be the way things work its not a practical solution.

There IS, however, a practical solution that would help in the types of situations you are concerned about.

Modify the ranking system to include all of a players individual skill metrics, with respect to every role, as well as utilize their overall W/L ratio (currently W/L ratio is used in a vaccum as a catchall for a player's "skill"). Give each player a W/L ranking. Give each player an individual performance for top lane ranking that accounts for every action this player takes as a top laner (literally everything, these stats are already tracked every game for the purposes of match history, so it shouldn't be at all difficult to utilize them in an algorithm that incorporates things like income rate, farm rate, KDA, objectives secured, kill participation, ward score, proximity to large engagements or objectives taken, etc etc). Give each player an individual performance ranking for every other role. Now you have 6 separate rankings for a player. Overall win rate (overall performance metric) and separate independent role ratings (specific performance metrics). Combine all this information as a 7th, composite ranking.

Once you have a system set up to do this the problem becomes much simpler to solve. Now, each match that is paired is paired on a greater amount of information. It starts by finding players within the acceptable composite rankings. Then it compares the individual rankings with respect to role and identifies players with similar individual role rankings as well as similar overall rankings. Finally, it matches players more evenly based off this greater amount of information. What this will mean for autofill situations is that whatever role a player is autofilled into is going to be a role where the enemy player is roughly equal in skill to them at that role. This eliminates the inherent RNG/luck factor that autofill seems to exihibit. It would prevent players from being autofilled at a significant disadvantage and prevent such lopsided, low quality matches.

There really isn't a way to effectively allow players to ONLY choose 1 or 2 specific roles to play all the time, particularly up here in high level play. But there IS a way to ensure that teams consisting of players matched under these circumstances have a fair competition. And the solution to this isn't anything to do with Role Selection or Autofill, the solution is to fix the broken ranking ladder system that is incapable of functioning in its intended fashion in the first place the overwhelming majority of the time.

LA LostyNov 24, 20163 votes

I still think autofill makes it even worse. You are right the ranked system isnt entirely accurate but autofill just makes it a lot less accurate. I still doubt the queue times would ever reach several hours, and i stick with what i said earlier, make it a choice at least.

KlobeardNov 24, 20162 votes

There is a huge difference between "one of us might get his off role" (aka autofill) vs "i choos fill" (aka support)

LA LostyNov 24, 20161 votes

So you mean "one of us might get support" vs "i choose support"? Also Riot is including a mechanic that allows you to choose fill and select a role you dont want to fill in, such as support.

OneSmoothDudeNov 25, 20161 votes

From the 6.23 patch notes:

We have concluded testing position exclusion in LAN and LAS and saw it was negatively impacting queue times, so will not be continuing development on this feature. We’re continuing to experiment with improvements to the whole champion select process.

LA LostyNov 25, 20163 votes

Queue the sad music. RIP.

LA LostyNov 24, 20167 votes

I peaked D1 and i have had my fair share of long queue times, but i would take a long queue over a short queue with autofill any time.

Jax the StampedeNov 24, 201616 votes

So let me get this straight. You have decided that being put into autofill makes for a shitty game. Ok, I can see where you're coming from on that. However, your response to the "shitty game" is to force yourself into one of the roles you chose therefore making it a shitty game for both you and the individual whose lane you forced yourself into? Not only that but forcing it into such an off meta position makes it shitty for the other three (assuming you didn't force into bot lane) players that are playing as well. You're basically trading what you consider to be a shitty game for what will result in a loss far more times than not. Man, I'll be real with you, that's both selfish and immature. I hope you can see that.

trash sionNov 24, 20163 votes

If I'm not prepared to play an off-role, I'm gonna feed my ass off anyway. I don't know how to play ADC or Mid at even a Bronze level and my supporting skills are subpar at best. I have a better chance of winning in an offmeta role because the enemy team won't know how to play against it.

I don't care if it throws my team off a bit. I'm trying to win, and that's the most effective way for me to do it.

Jax the StampedeNov 24, 201619 votes

I see that more as an excuse than a reason. If you're even playing ranked then you should have a decent understanding of how to play in all the roles. Not even for the sake of you playing them, but for the sake of knowing how to work with those roles properly. I main support, but I have way more mastery points in ADCs than I do in supports if you were to add them all together. The reason for this is that I understand that to be a good support I have to understand what the ADC is capable of and what situations would allow my ADC to perform at maximum capacity. Same in the sense that it gives me an understanding of how to put the enemy ADC/support into situations where they won't be able to capitalize on the situation.

Also, this ---> "I don't care if it throws my team off a bit" <--- directly contradicts this ---> "I'm trying to win"

Dextix LTNov 24, 20163 votes

And that is noone else fault but yours, if you can't play all roles at least decently in ranked, don't play ranked, because you WILL ruin games.

I main support, but if needed i can fill other roles too, because im not an idiot. Because knowing other roles gives me an advantage, and because i can switch positions and be flexible with my team.

Trolling is not a choice,and if you do it, i hope you get banned, plain and simple.

KheldorinNov 24, 20166 votes

Errm people are getting the same issue in Normal queues as well.

I spent 26 minutes the day before yesterday trying to get into a single normal draft game because people kept queue dodging due to not wanting to autofill. I finally get into the game... and it's a remake.

Half an hour wasted I went to bed due to having to work early.

All of this was caused by Riot wanting to shave 2minutes off queue times....

CochoNov 23, 201615 votes

If u fill for one game, you get protected from it for like 5 lol

i dont see much on an issue

trash sionNov 23, 201629 votes

I shouldn't have to fill at all. I select two roles to get one of those two roles, not to "maybe" get one of those two roles. It's not my fault no one likes playing the gold-deprived bitch to the ADC. Maybe if Riot didn't so strictly enforce the meta and how a support should play, more people would play it.

DarkRitualNov 23, 201622 votes

[{quoted}](name=Azuk the Jungler,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=soEJhNrq,comment-id=00030000,timestamp=2016-11-23T22:17:03.023+0000)

the gold-deprived bitch to the ADC.

It's here I can tell you actually don't actually know anything about the support role.

Chromatic EagleNov 24, 201617 votes

Idk, some games that's pretty accurate.

DarkRitualNov 24, 20166 votes

Ehh. I'm not often gold-starved, unless I'm doing bad and feeding (not intentionally). I'm also never the ADC's Bitch. I stick in lane untill we take/lose outer turret, then roam and help whoever needs it from there.

CochoNov 24, 20167 votes

I see where you're coming from and I respect it. It's better to always get your roles. There should be an option for wait longer and not be autofilled.

JonxxNov 24, 20163 votes

Honestly, the bigger problem is, that even if I get my role others may get one they can't play. Then the game is basically up to which team have more "role mains".

Dextix LTNov 24, 201615 votes

Okay, i have to disagree with most of this. Firstly autofill is not the perfect solution, but it is a good one.

First of all, if you can't play all roles at a decent level, don't play ranked at all. This kind of knowledge is NEEDED in alll elos even if you do not play the roles. It gives you flexibility and knowledge of the enemy/allies in games. I main support, but i can play other roles at a decent level too, because that is needed.

Secondly, don't bullcrap about runes. You can easily make 2 rune pages that cover almost all champs. They will not be specialized, but that is alright. I have reached diamond 5/4 with my rune pages, that are specialized and not even optimized, but can fit in almost all the champs i play myself.

Thirdly, your last paragraph and the fact that you are upvoted for it, is just sad. You straight up say that if you do not get your role, you will troll. That is a bannable offense and ruins games for other people, instead of sucking it up and learning to play many roles you would rather fuck over 4 other people because you are too lazy.

Fourthly after autofilling once (OH THE HORROR), you are GUARANTEED a role in your next games! I still remember the days when you could not even do THAT because pick order was a thing. This system is infinitely better than what we had. And playing offrole once to get a guarantee of your main role seems like a really small price to pay, if you are good enough to know all roles at least decently.

And people upvote this shit? Boards, oes your hate for Riot really cloud your minds like that? Trolling is okay just because you do not like Riot? Crying instead of learning the game is upvoted? What the fuck boards?

No doubt i will be downvoted now, because the boards are idiotic enough to defend trolling, and everyone who does not defend trolling is a "meta sheep". For the record, i do not like Riot that much, but it does not affect my critical thinking, as it seems have affected the boards.

Gregor GysiNov 24, 201613 votes

[{quoted}](name=Azuk the Jungler,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=soEJhNrq,comment-id=,timestamp=2016-11-23T21:33:36.162+0000)

So, yeah. If you force me to fill something I didn't queue for, I'm not doing it. Whether that mean we duo top or jungle, or I pull the trusty Singed Support, I'm not doing it. Sorry, not sorry. I want quality games, not a ton of shitty ones.

So we are now upvoting people who say "top or troll?" or what is happening right now? Thanks boards, you disappointed me again.

Wolf QueenNov 24, 201613 votes

Your seriously complaining? We all used to auto fill before this queue system came out, everyone used to complain about that too. Now your sitting here complaining because its not 100% perfect? Stfu already. If your going to troll your team on purpose cause your an immature child having a tantrum cause he didn't get his way then you'll be banned rather quick.

Also Diamond players and sometimes plat players already got auto filled long before they made it happen for all ranks. Did you see them threatening to troll and have a tantrum? Grow the fuck up.

ThePartyLeaderNov 23, 201611 votes

So you wouldn't have played in ranked anyways since before the new queue you were even less likely to get your role.

WeatheredNov 24, 201611 votes

What really bothers me is all these people up in arms about autofill but not too long ago guaranteed roles didn't even exist and it was a lottery pick of what you got regarding pick order.

It's like giving people ice cream with sprinkles, but then having a recall on the sprinkles and all of a sudden there are riots in the street.

1 800 Top LaneNov 24, 20165 votes

Wait, are all the riots on the news actually about sprinkles?

NeidoxNov 24, 201611 votes

I had an Alistair support yesterday that got auto filled into that position. We lost in champ select from his negative attitude towards being auto filled. I felt it affected his gameplay and decision making. He said he didn't care for the simple fact of being auto filled into a position he absolutely did not want. I say make auto fill an option IF YOU want faster ques. Not faster ques for other people.

jaymc1130Nov 24, 201610 votes

Man you folks got spoiled by Role Selection.

Riot never should have implemented that feature, its become such a crutch and an excuse for so many of you and the only thing Role Selection ever achieved was degrading the quality of matches by allowing players to avoid having to learn basic game fundamentals.

Sad.

SiazkNov 23, 20169 votes

I would rather wait 10 minutes for a position I picked over getting shoved into a random role. All I am going to do is wait and hope someone else drops before I do it. I will NEVER auto fill Riot.

HazyCloud7Nov 24, 20167 votes

I pity the adc that gets stuck with me if I ever get auto filled to support.

SpectreGunnerNov 24, 20167 votes

I'd rather wait 25 minutes than play a role that I don't enjoy/am not good at. I've played this game since 2010, and for those of you that say "it used to be this way and you had to play every role because you didn't always get the role you wanted." I understand that, and that's why there have been times that I've stopped playing. Having the new system is what's kept me engaged. This is a game. I play for fun. Not every role is fun.

QaznGodNov 24, 20166 votes

THE MOST IMPORTANT PART THAT PEOPLE NEED TO REALIZE. If someone gets autofilled as support and they're totally upset about it. They aren't going to play well. I don't wanna jungle main support that is already super angry before the game starts

The Space CowboyNov 24, 20164 votes

Ya I didn't do very well for my team yesterday. I make a pretty bad support unless I have a hyper aggressive adc. Anyway I have to agree that ranked games shouldn't have autofill. If Riot wants to shorten que times and introduce people to supporting they should do it in normals.