I don't think I've EVER felt like a Vayne outplayed me since stealth changes.

trash sion·2/10/2017, 11:19:15 PM·192 votes·7,192 views

I used to feel like when I 1v1'd a Vayne, it was a skill matchup in knowing when to ward and being able to effectively position to dodge Condemn by doing that.

Now, if I'm playing a champion that needs to AA or use targeted abilities, there's no point. She's never visible for long enough to deal any meaningful damage, and I just have to sit there while she's invisible and wait for her to reappear while she positions to Condemn me and 3 shot me.

Feels like shit. Doesn't feel like she's outplaying me at all, I just feel helpless as she gets to freely reposition and avoid damage with no chance for me to retaliate.

147 Comments

Unreformed Shaco2/10/2017, 11:22:17 PM51 votes

Yep, this is the problem 100%

It isn't the damage being too high or too hard to build against, it is the fact you can't meaningfully retaliate.

Hige2/11/2017, 2:58:14 AM28 votes

she's a vicious cycle of stuff that you can't get out of, you can try to outplay her by simply running away when she ults but oh... she has an MS buff as her passive and her ult doubles it, so you try to stay and fight but oh... she has a ton more AD from her ult and her ratios are pretty good plus she's invisible so you can't reposition correctly, you could try to tank her through items I guess but oh... she has %hp true dmg, you could try to dive her but she has a knockback plus she can reposition herself and line you up to a wall...

There's no winning against Vayne EXCEPT, pummel her during early game and she'll fall behind so hard that until she hits lvl 16 she won't be an issue, also, prat for the game to finish by mid game...

Skorch2/11/2017, 1:52:14 AM14 votes

I mean the only change is now you cant plop a pink ward to see her.

I wouldnt call using a pink ward as a sick OUTPLAY against vayne.

macromite2/11/2017, 3:30:40 PM10 votes

here's my solution.

delete vayne from the game.

She is never a fair character.

SanKakU2/11/2017, 1:32:58 PM9 votes

Maybe Vayne should get the Dark Templar treatment. In Starcraft, a trained eye can see invisible Dark Templar units(actually you see them distorting your view of the terrain, you don't technically see any unit models) but can't attack them directly. Vayne's invisibility could be the same way, you could see where she is but not be able to target her. This would give her some difficulty, but I reckon you could buff her tumble jump range while invisible if you really needed to(I doubt it) in order to compensate for tanks being able to easily damage her while she's invisible.

Nameless Voice2/11/2017, 1:50:26 AM6 votes

I honestly think making invisibility uncounterable made it a much worse mechanic.

There is no counterplay when your enemy can become invisible and effectively untargetable in the middle of your fight. The only thing you can do is to be tough enough to withstand their uncounterable attacks until they are visible, which a squishy champion is never going to do.

Dealth2/12/2017, 12:36:42 AM5 votes

Nobody ever "feels outplayed" in this game. Whenever they get outplayed they just make a complain thread on the board crying about how "unbalanced" x champion is. "qq they killed me, but I'm as good as faker rito pls!" Everyone has overblown egos I swear.

BigBellBrute2/12/2017, 2:12:53 AM5 votes

Nobody has ever outplayed me at anything ever. There seems to be a lot of coding errors, team problems from the other team, and lag problems though.

jama6552/12/2017, 4:01:36 AM3 votes

i think the changes made to vision have been stupid over the passed 2 seasons, removing wards then removing wards ability to see invis champs the vision changes dont make sense 2 me

IceKingChernobog2/11/2017, 1:24:35 AM3 votes

that and the fact you can't truly disengage when she ults she gains movement speed along with the AD steroid and add that to her passive that gives MS to targets she have in her FOV makers her really fucking hard to outrun.

Noblewind2/11/2017, 9:17:21 PM3 votes

You need to look at the other side of it too though. Playing AS a Vayne, this is basically your only strong tool to not get annihilated in a lot of situations, as such if you are the vayne you do feel like you outplayed. You're also not supposed to be able to 1v1 a Vayne as most champions in the game during the later parts of a game, that's kind of the point.

GameBurst2/12/2017, 3:03:10 PM2 votes

Personally i think she should get deleted since riot seem hesitant to nerf it idky i cant stand how they run this game but she's definitely a problem champ notice how majority of vaynes are crippled extremely when they cant stealth and not have to worry about dmg there should not be a crutch like that to bail u out of every situation and thats why i hate kayle ult and mundo ult and stuff

Iźuku Midoriya2/11/2017, 2:18:17 AM2 votes

realistically there is no counter play to percentage max health based true damage and that something with like a 70% ad ratio can crit on top of the next basic auto