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*sees Riot's considering buffing ADCs* Just go ahead and delete assassins, why not?

Astôlfo··67 votes·3,476 views

Well, fuck assassins, am I right? You might as well remove assassins from the game at this point.

You already made them unable to actually assassinate with every single reworked assassin needing at least 2 full seconds and landing their entire combo to even have a hope of killing a target. (Excluding the absurdly strong Kha'Zix and Rengar atm in comparison to the rest) You didn't achieve your goal of making them even slightly more useful in teamfights vs the old. You gutted important parts in return for cheap and flimsy gimmicks. And they're still absurdly squishy.

Literally every other class does any actually helpful or good thing they do better. Soaking damage? Tanks. Pure damage (usually DPS) at close range? Fighters/divers/skirmishers. Long range? Want AoE/burst? Mages. Want DPS? ADCs. Want CC? Mages/support/tanks. Want a mix by sacrificing some strength in damage and durability? Juggernauts.

And.… here we have assassins. Single target. Takes fucking forever to do their burst. Squishy as hell. Extremely short range. Mobility… except that doesn't mean a flying fuck when no competent team would let you actually take advantage of it.

And now their intended prey is getting buffs? And don't even get me started on Vayne's current Q squishy burst build trend being incredibly fucking stupid.

.endrant

114 Comments

TyrekGoldenspear26 votes

Stop overreacting please.

I like your posts, they give brutal truth, but this is just a rant.

Riot won't dumpster Assassins right when they rework them. That's an absurd train of thought and you know it.

Assassins just need their burst windows shortened. That's all.

Astôlfo8 votes

Which is why I said ".endrant" at the end of this particular one. Just sort of salty.

TyrekGoldenspear13 votes

Sigh. This patch is literally a week old. Adjustments can be made. I understand the salt however.

But ADCs and Assassins are yelling at each other right now screaming no counterplay when nobody has learned how to 100% play as or against these assassins yet.

Reposer5 votes

I mean, yeah, there's still a bit of learning to do with assassins, but general consensus is that they're mostly weaker than before.

Also, a week old doesn't mean much when patches are 2 week cycles, that's half of the cycle.

CC Mustang3 votes

Talon https://media.tenor.co/images/cb89abffb06b3fabb69dfab551e3a0ac/raw

HazyCloud79 votes

To be fair they did dumpster assassins with this update, a handful of them are absolutely awful right now. I believe they will buff them accordingly but right now assassins are not very good, with a couple of exceptions.

Anyway it shouldn't come as a shock that riot wants to buff some of the adcs. MF/Lucian were hit by the lethality changes and a number of adcs were impacted by the fervor changes as well. Ezreal for example is definitely weaker than pre fervor changes.

Astôlfo7 votes

ADCs weren't supposed to have flat armorpen. The whole point of the Lethality change was to gut that abusive playstyle and tone down the excessive snowballing of flat armorpen users (assassins, ADCs).

HazyCloud77 votes

I've said before that I don't understand why Ghostblade/Duskblade weren't made melee only. But the reality is that these became the meta builds on several adcs and riot balanced those champions with that play style/build in mind.

For example, Lucian received major nerfs after the Ghostblade/BC build became widespread. But now that armor pen was changed to lethality he's building crit again, and he still has the nerfs he received when he was building armor pen. The result is a champion with a 46% win rate. He's even behind urgot. Poor lucian players.

GayFluffyUnicorn2 votes

Oh no two ADCs are not meta anymore. Quick buff them back into godtier status again. This is what people annoy about riot. Every champ can stay in the gutter for years if it must be as long as they are not named: Riven, Yasuo, any ADC. It'sa relief to not see lucian for quite some time, seems it is over again soon.

Nuparu2 votes

Riven was terrible for the first half of season 6.

Yasuo hasn't really been that much of a problem except for when he abused PD FM and then that got nerfed.

Most ADCs have been relatively balanced.

I'm not sure where you're going with this argument but it seems fucking illogical.

Jorencice2 votes

Except they dont need their burst window lowered.

Im sorry but dieing in .07 seconds isnt fun. (Current record an assassian has against me) is retarted and just plain not fun to play against.

If anything everyone else needs their damage lowered so everyones time to kill becomes longer.

l Helios l17 votes

I don't feel that's true at all. I've seen on several occasions where a Zed or a Talon miss legitimately everything and still pull of a kill. It actually annoys me that assassins are getting a bad rap for being "bad" when it hasn't even been a full patch since they've been launched, barely over a week. I'm not discussing ADC strength, but assassins aren't weak, they're just much more situational than they use to be.

Saianna1 votes

Well.. Cause it's Zed doe.

l Helios l6 votes

Then the argument fails. Clearly not ALL the assassins are weak then. Regardless, it's been a week, and several of these champions have really high skill curves now, primarily Katarina and Leblanc, and I think we need time before we grab torches and flame Riot for no reason. Js.

Saianna5 votes

Well Tbh Zed hasn't been changed much.. if at all.

Riot just took his 1 hidden power from W slightly changed it and slapped on his ultimate.

But then lets be honest. This whole update is inconsistent as hell. Some assassins are OP, others are the same and there are few that got nerfed for no goddamn reason.

l Helios l2 votes

Making him work for AD is fine, I have no beef with that. I think it's a perfectly fair way to have a player be rewarded for killing intended targets. I can agree concerning inconsistencies, but I think half of that is just an issue with Rengar being stupidly clunky now. The new Q animation is just weird, and the old Q animation being present at some point in his combo is just really confusing and half the time I see him kill me I have no idea what actually happened. That's more what's annoying me more than anything else.

CriticalTroll3 votes

[{quoted}](name=l Helios l,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=sec3hFMs,comment-id=000a,timestamp=2016-11-18T21:21:22.380+0000)

I don't feel that's true at all. I've seen on several occasions where a Zed or a Talon miss legitimately everything and still pull of a kill. It actually annoys me that assassins are getting a bad rap for being "bad" when it hasn't even been a full patch since they've been launched, barely over a week. I'm not discussing ADC strength, but assassins aren't weak, they're just much more situational than they use to be.

Define the word "everything" Zed can only fail his Q and Talon only his W. If they are 13-0 of course and you have 300 hp of course they will kill you with autos lmao. But yea you can say they miss everything :^)

l Helios l2 votes

Technically Zed can fail his Q and his E if he misjudges the range and Talon can fail R if he doesn't get to a target in time if you want to be technical.

Regardless, here's an example. I remember a Zed walking up to our Vayne at our destroyed outer mid turret. The Zed meanders up to her, and she ult Qs and E's him into the tower. He ults and throws his W towards raptor camp and wiffs the shadow Q and regular Q, auto attacks, E's, lands 1 more auto, ignited and then dies to the Vayne. Death Mark pops and she dies.

I remember staring at that and saying, "That is some legitimate bullshit that he can mess up his engage, get pinned, miss everything, die, and still get the kill."

If my memory serves me, then that is silly in every sense.

Edit: he was at full, she was at about 4/5 hp,

Astôlfo6 votes

So. How many items did Zed have at that point? Because it doesn't matter how fed Vayne is if she doesn't buy any resistances. An E + two autos is TLD proc, and then Ignite on top of that is a hefty chunk of damage. If Zed isn't behind, it's perfectly reasonable for that to happen.

Chembaron Yamada5 votes

You created a thread saying that assassins are not able to kill their primary target anymore. Then you get an example of an assassin that has totally messed up his combo and still managed to kill the primary target. You call it "perfectly reasonable to happen".

Sry, I dont get your logic. You just admitted that assassins actually are able to do their job.

Astôlfo6 votes

Because Zed was and is still trash and hasn't changed as much because he only got a minor rework? He still can't assassinate reliably at all. So I asked how fed he was. If he's fed out of his ass, of course Vayne would die. Same applies to any other champion. And if Vayne was out alone by herself, she deserves to die, whether it be by Zed or anyone else.

TeCoolMage1 votes

I can miss all my abilities as Anivia and use a non-chilled E + auto attacks, and I won't be getting any kills

Or miss all my abilities as Lux, Xerath, Karthus, Vel'koz, and any support champion. I can be 20/0 and they're not going to die unless I build AD or lich bane.

Meanwhile Zed can ult + 2 autos if fed while missing everything else

Handin Out Naps2 votes

First if you miss your e r on Anivia then idk what to tell you bud. That takes some real skill to fuck up. And Second Zed can kill you if you are alone while missing his shurikens if he has a lot of items. Thats called being caught out as a squishy vs an assassin. In teamfights he will not be able to kill you if your team is paying attention though. Meanwhile mages will just throw their skillshots from a safe range deleting squishies and slowing people with rylais. Good comparison though, Its like Zed only works vs bad players and mages are just broken xd.

Astôlfo2 votes

"if he's fed" There's your answer.

If you're 20/0 and you miss all your abilities, of course they won't die. If Zed ults and autos you twice, he still hit you with his ult and two autos. That's not even close to the same thing.

And unlike you mages, assassins have to get into point-blank melee range to actually kill people.

Kaioko6 votes

I played against a competent Diamond I LeBlanc yesterday. I honestly thought she was weak except at level 6 she landed her double chain on me and without any other spell that took 80% of my health bar away. Granted it did take the full 1.5 seconds but I was like what the fuck just happened.

I don't think Assassins as a whole are weaker. I actually quite enjoy the flexibility they now have in their game play.

Lady Hammerlock3 votes

{quoted}

I played against a competent Diamond I LeBlanc yesterday. I honestly thought she was weak except at level 6 she landed her double chain on me and without any other spell that took 80% of my health bar away. Granted it did take the full 1.5 seconds but I was like what the fuck just happened.

I don't think Assassins as a whole are weaker. I actually quite enjoy the flexibility they now have in their game play.

Hey atleast leblanc isn't as frustrating as she was before

Votable Jester7 votes

The reason the chains did that much damage was because they procced her passive as well. Her Ult E is also the highest damage of any of her ults because it's by far the least likely to land.

Big Lincoln6 votes

i think a minority of assassins are actually weak right now. Akali is pretty much the only I would definitively say is bad, and she's already getting buffs. (Though I think she needs her passive switched, and damage on her ult, not E...)

Katarina Leblanc need time for players to figure out now

Shaco Khazix Rengar Ekko came out of this pretty strong, all things considered. Crit Shaco is dead, but AP is incredibly strong, possibly too good.

Talon too soon to say. His numbers are pretty ridiculous but he has a lot of trouble actually applying them. I don't think his E worked out quite as it was expected to.

Wukong Airlines2 votes

Talon is only strong early game, even barely strong since he needs to be in range to land the Q crit which deals most of the damage, his W is garbage, too narrow, too slow, and deals almost no damage. his ult is a joke, they even added a delay to it so you dont quickly double cast it, so thats 2 slower lower damage spells you have W+R,. talon also lost the 15% extra damage passive used to be on his E, which is more nerf to his spells besides their base damage. if riot was serious about buffing his single target damage they should've kept it. now most of his kit is passive reliant, which is stupid and I prefer the old passive since it used to benefit his last Q which did more crit damage + the 15% E passive.

and aah yes, they nerfed his MS. what a joke rework.

Ralanr4 votes

"W does no damage"

Late game his waveclear is insane with it.

Votable Jester2 votes

It does damage, but you're almost never going to land both parts on a champion anymore.

Shaydrox1 votes

The damage scales 20% less than the old W, the reason he waveclears so easily is because Riot destroyed the caster minions healthbars. In general Talon's damage looks so insane on paper but people tend to forget he used to have a 15% damage amp on everything when he used his E.

Ralanr1 votes

So now they don't have to worry about that amp when balancing him.

Shaydrox1 votes

Yep, I agree that's a good thing. Saying his waveclear is insane though, can be said about half the champions in the league now that caster minions health scaling has been raped. (last game our Maokai could kill backlines with his Saplings even lategame lol)

Hickerdinkle6 votes

[{quoted}](name=Big Lincoln,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=sec3hFMs,comment-id=0003,timestamp=2016-11-18T19:56:26.045+0000)

i think a minority of assassins are actually weak right now. Akali is pretty much the only I would definitively say is bad, and she's already getting buffs. (Though I think she needs her passive switched, and damage on her ult, not E...)

Katarina Leblanc need time for players to figure out now

Shaco Khazix Rengar Ekko came out of this pretty strong, all things considered. Crit Shaco is dead, but AP is incredibly strong, possibly too good.

Talon too soon to say. His numbers are pretty ridiculous but he has a lot of trouble actually applying them. I don't think his E worked out quite as it was expected to.

Nope.

AP shaco got nerfed too.

His bread and butter Two handshiv was essential nerfed instead of a 100% return it is 90% and the 8% only scale towards the end game. And his passive no longer works with Two handshiv.

Deceive is used as an escape not damage for AP Shaco.

The boxes are the same but last like 2 seconds more for every 100 ap.

Big Lincoln5 votes

must explain why I've had nothing but success with it then

Saianna5 votes

but AP is incredibly strong,

Jesus.. people are sheep as fuck.

All AP Shaco received that could be considered HUGE buff is new Ap ratio on Q. That is all. E nerfed hard as fuck W, not changed by much R has gimmick 3-Jitb that work like shit.

You know why AP Shaco "So mah OP"? Cause people started to play him. He used to be hidden, annoying pick you'd see rarely. Now everyone plays him that way just cause Riot nerfed all other options. Jesus christ get a brain or something.

Big Lincoln4 votes

wah wah wah

his Q buff was good enough to justify saying AP Shaco is stronger. great buff to his up-front burst with item 3100 item 3146 on top of his passive and bonus damage on Q for it, not to mention his E still scales great as an AP build because it's a total AD ratio. nevermind his winrate has gone up with it but what do I know, i only play shaco myself and decided on my own that AP is better, guess I should listen to the angry unranked ARAM account instead

Saianna2 votes

his Q buff was good enough to justify saying AP Shaco is stronger.

I agree! But people gone sheep-ception and started calling him OP. And that is goddamn dirty lie.

guess I should listen to the angry unranked ARAM account instead

touché

Just cause I dislike ranked doesn't mean I don't know how to play. But w/e

Big Lincoln3 votes

i don't think he's OP but it would be a lie to say he isn't good right now. I still think his passive should be changed so that crit shaco isn't gutter trash, but I have the feeling Riot meant to do it like this for that exact reason

Just cause I dislike ranked doesn't mean I don't know how to play. But w/e

well don't insult me then

Xonra2 votes

He isn't good right now. It isn't a lie. Congrats you've played a lot of Shaco and know how to play Shaco. That doesn't make him as a champion good as much as you know how to force the round peg in the square hole.

J Epstein4 votes

good. assassins are toxic to play against.

Lovelle12 votes

If you're going to play that card, what champions aren't "toxic" to play against?

Velzard of Koz6 votes

Janna. She gusts the toxic air away.

Leetri3 votes

Twitch Stop moving my stench!

Weathered2 votes

So... where did they say they were considering buffing adc's. Meddler actually commented on Vayne nerfs.

EndlessSorcerer8 votes

Meddler alluded to the possibility of buffing other ADCs for the purposes of keeping Vayne down.

The changes to Flat Armor Penetration nerfed many of her lane counters, so they are considering the idea that the lack of people who can appropriately bully her is part of the reason she is strong at the moment.

WoonStruck1 votes

Which is bullshit because Vayne was still competing with them while Armor Pen builds still existed.

It was the massive 40% increase her Q bonus damage got (from 50%->70%) that put her there and allowed her to ignore her early game weaknesses prior to preseason.

#They're going to find that they buff those ADCs, Vayne is still an issue, nerf Vayne, then have the ADCs they buffed be an issue all season.

Just watch.

I'd put money on it, because its pretty obvious Riot doesn't have any foresight and never has. They just like to pretend they do every so often so people get tricked into believing the balance department is competent because 'at least they're trying'.

There have been way too many obvious, HUGE balance issues that they've created, and people have even complained about it on the PBE/boards before it was actually patched to live. They still don't get it even in those cases.

_P.S. I upvoted you because you're just the messenger, and that is what Meddler actually said and believes. Dunno who downvoted. _

EndlessSorcerer2 votes

I never said they were right.

That was just their reasoning.

WoonStruck1 votes

Yeah, I know. I'm assuming someone thought you were agreeing with Meddler's conclusions and downvoted because of that.

I'm just saying what I think's going to end up happening if Meddler doesn't change his mind and my lack of faith in the balance department as a whole, given past examples.

Its frustrating that after 7 years of helping to shape this game, Meddler still shows that he's incompetent at times. Having him in charge doesn't shine a good like on the future of LoL when that happens. This is one of those times.

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