If you are having problems with Illaoi

Mira Arya Enthe·Sep 23, 2016·2 votes·710 views

Play Pantheon and rush an Executioner's Calling into Mortal Reminder ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)

16 Comments

EmbertineSep 23, 20162 votes

Renekton works too.

TyrekGoldenspearSep 23, 20162 votes

Spears for days.

HazafriosSep 23, 20162 votes

play darius and make her cry.

AstôlfoSep 23, 20161 votes

Darius is an annoying matchup because his bleed stacks automatically win any longer trade for him, but provided I can dodge his E, his W and Q aren't going to hit me. And then I just harass him with E repeatedly (I'd usually max E first in that matchup) with tentacles to either side.

AstôlfoSep 23, 20162 votes

Or.

"Oh look, she's about to hit me with her Q/E." move mouse sideways rightclick

"Oh look, she used her ultimate." turn on common sense back out of tentacle mosh pit

"Oh look, she has sustain." Get ExCall/Morello

"Oh look, she's an immobile juggernaut with lots of damage." start kiting CC her

Mira Arya EntheSep 23, 20162 votes

{quoted}

Or.

"Oh look, she's about to hit me with her Q/E." move mouse sideways rightclick

"Oh look, she used her ultimate." turn on common sense back out of tentacle mosh pit

"Oh look, she has sustain." Get ExCall/Morello

"Oh look, she's an immobile juggernaut with lots of damage." start kiting CC her

These also work. The purpose of this post was to show that she is not broken. Just because Riven cannot all in her while behind an item with no grevious wounds doesn't make her broken. And I play Riven, I don't play Illaoi. Yet I am still willing to defend her, for the sake of those that enjoy her.

DracocrashSep 23, 20161 votes

building last whisper as a first item sounds like a very bad idea.

Mira Arya EntheSep 23, 20161 votes

[{quoted}](name=NoganksOnlyFarm ,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=sbfZ3Jyy,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2016-09-23T16:45:23.913+0000)

building last whisper as a first item sounds like a very bad idea.

Who said last whisper? Executioner's calling...

http://matchhistory.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/#match-details/NA1/2300196657/48865711/eog?tab=overview

DracocrashSep 23, 20161 votes

you stated rush executioners calling into mortal reminder.

Rushing mortal reminder is bad.

If you had just said buy an executioners calling that would have been OK.

But rushing a last whisper upgrade as a first item is a very bad idea, baring some rare cases.

edit: also couldn't help but notice you built merc treds against a team with nothing but knockups and slows. Merc treds does not do anything against knockups, and boots of swiftness are far superior to counter slows.

You also rushed tear which is not a good thing to do on pantheon, since you need to get early damage to snowball a game hard.

Mira Arya EntheSep 23, 20161 votes

[{quoted}](name=NoganksOnlyFarm ,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=sbfZ3Jyy,comment-id=000000000000,timestamp=2016-09-23T16:49:57.804+0000)

you stated rush executioners calling into mortal reminder.

Rushing mortal reminder is bad.

If you had just said buy an executioners calling that would have been OK.

But rushing a last whisper upgrade as a first item is a very bad idea, baring some rare cases.

45% armor pen vs Black Cleaver rushing 30% after getting 6 stacks.

50 AD isn't terrible.

Executioner's calling effect is of course good.

Not saying it's the best 'first pick' but it certainly isn't a bad item. And if you are rushing executioner's calling against Illaoi anyway, might as well finish the item up, pretty cheap after you already take 800 gold out of the equation that is 1900 gold to finish it, vs getting executioner's for 800 then spending another 3100 for cleaver.

DracocrashSep 23, 20161 votes

45% BONUS armor penetration vs 30% TOTAL armor penetration after getting 6 stacks. Big difference.

Definitly a late game upgrade if the enemy is building armor, but not as a first item.

Mira Arya EntheSep 23, 20161 votes

[{quoted}](name=NoganksOnlyFarm ,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=sbfZ3Jyy,comment-id=00000000000000000000,timestamp=2016-09-23T16:59:45.401+0000)

45% BONUS armor penetration vs 30% TOTAL armor penetration after getting 6 stacks. Big difference.

Definitly a late game upgrade if the enemy is building armor, but not as a first item.

2700 cost including 800 you were going to spend anyway vs 3900 to get executioner's calling into cleaver. It's the same reason Shyvana doesn't go "Bloodrazor is better late game, let me just spend 1000 on the smite item then build a blade for 3400 then finish blood razor later".

DracocrashSep 23, 20161 votes

2 things:-

when your comparing prices, you have to compare stats as well

Let me do it for you Spend 2700 for- Grievous Wounds 50 ad 45% bonus armor penetration (pracitcally useless at the start since 99% of the time the enemy will only have 9 bonus armor from runes) (since we are talking about illaoi, she never rushes armor as her first item, so useless.)

3900 gold Grevious wounds 50 ad 300 hp 20% cdr 5% flat armor pen per stack, stax upto 6 times (easily stackable with pantheon) (flat armor pen works on base armor, so is usefull early as well) Dealing physical damage grants 20 movement speed for 2 seconds. Assists on Cleaved enemy champions or

So obviously if you pay more, you get more stats.

Your shyvanna argument is flawed because :-

Cinderhulk shyvanas have a higher win % (relatively small playrate though, could be unreliable)

Jungle items are a completely different story.

Why are you comparing bloodrazor and botrk? they both deal % HP damage (albeit one is flat % hp damage and the other one is current % hp damage) so both have similar power spikes. Both scale better as the game goes on...

Also many bloodrazor junglers have been recorded skipping their jungle item after red smite, buying other items and then upgrading to bloodrazor later into the game.

Mira Arya EntheSep 23, 20161 votes

[{quoted}](name=NoganksOnlyFarm ,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=sbfZ3Jyy,comment-id=0000000000000000000000000000,timestamp=2016-09-23T17:13:10.229+0000)

2 things:-

when your comparing prices, you have to compare stats as well

Let me do it for you Spend 2700 for- Grievous Wounds 50 ad 45% bonus armor penetration (pracitcally useless at the start since 99% of the time the enemy will only have 9 bonus armor from runes) (since we are talking about illaoi, she never rushes armor as her first item, so useless.)

3900 gold Grevious wounds 50 ad 300 hp 20% cdr 5% flat armor pen per stack, stax upto 6 times (easily stackable with pantheon) (flat armor pen works on base armor, so is usefull early as well) Dealing physical damage grants 20 movement speed for 2 seconds. Assists on Cleaved enemy champions or

So obviously if you pay more, you get more stats.

Your shyvanna argument is flawed because :-

Cinderhulk shyvanas have a higher win % (relatively small playrate though)

Jungle items are a completely different story.

Why are you comparing bloodrazor and botrk? they both deal % HP damage (albeit one is flat % hp damage and the other one is current % hp damage) so both have similar power spikes. Both scale better as the game goes on...

Also many bloodrazor junglers have been recorded skipping their jungle item after red smite, buying other items and then upgrading to bloodrazor later into the game.

http://champion.gg/champion/Shyvana Where even is Cinderhulk? I don't see it in the common or highest win rate build? Where are you getting cinderhulk? All respect for your arguments just went out the window. Shyvana doesn't build Cinderhulk unless they need emergency tankiness right NOW and already have their smite item.

DracocrashSep 23, 20161 votes

Ok this is quite annoying. I mentioned the play rate was low, it was an unreliable statistic.

You literally countered my argument with "why dont shyvana skip bloodrazor and go for botrk"

when im clearly trying to explain to you bonus armor pen is BAD early game vs people who dont build armor as their first item which is a FACT.

ALSO: you have ignored all of my other completely valid arguments and nitpicked this one which i clearly stated might be flawed.

This discussion is over.

Mira Arya EntheSep 23, 20161 votes

[{quoted}](name=NoganksOnlyFarm ,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=sbfZ3Jyy,comment-id=0000000000000000000000000000,timestamp=2016-09-23T17:13:10.229+0000)

2 things:-

when your comparing prices, you have to compare stats as well

Let me do it for you Spend 2700 for- Grievous Wounds 50 ad 45% bonus armor penetration (pracitcally useless at the start since 99% of the time the enemy will only have 9 bonus armor from runes) (since we are talking about illaoi, she never rushes armor as her first item, so useless.)

3900 gold Grevious wounds 50 ad 300 hp 20% cdr 5% flat armor pen per stack, stax upto 6 times (easily stackable with pantheon) (flat armor pen works on base armor, so is usefull early as well) Dealing physical damage grants 20 movement speed for 2 seconds. Assists on Cleaved enemy champions or

So obviously if you pay more, you get more stats.

Your shyvanna argument is flawed because :-

Cinderhulk shyvanas have a higher win % (relatively small playrate though)

Jungle items are a completely different story.

Why are you comparing bloodrazor and botrk? they both deal % HP damage (albeit one is flat % hp damage and the other one is current % hp damage) so both have similar power spikes. Both scale better as the game goes on...

Also many bloodrazor junglers have been recorded skipping their jungle item after red smite, buying other items and then upgrading to bloodrazor later into the game.