Devil's Advocate(defending Riven)

Mira Arya Enthe··5 votes·829 views

As the boards know I am a Shyvana main. But uhhhh I wanna talk about Riven. Lessgo.

http://www.champion.gg/champion/Riven

To start out she has among the most experienced playerbases in LoL. Few first time Riven players. Meaning the people who do play her know how to. Despite this she has a fairly aberage win rate that bounces around 48-51% through meta changes and buffs/nerfs. Currently just over 49% win rate.

Her win rate per games played is not all that impressive. Especially when compared to some other skill cap and meta-viable champions.

http://www.lolking.net/summoner/na/245353#ranked-stats

This is BoxBox. The fairly famous and arguably best Riven in the world. 58% win rate pn his most played and famed champion. And that is considering he is willing to counterpick, meaning he doesn't often face her worst counters. This is also in challenger, where a lot of her hard counters fall off due to being low skill cap bronzelord champions like Garen or just aren't as common like Darius.

http://www.lolking.net/summoner/na/38067920

This is Nowww, not well known but he has the most games played as Riven in NA, yet a 52% win rate. He isn't "complete trash" either. He made it to diamond.

http://www.champion.gg/champion/Riven

Look at Riven's matchups again. She wins some hard. Like vs Trundle, Swain and Vlad. Vlad isn't considered good atm. Swain is not extremely meta. Trundle a fair counter. She counters gnar, cool somebody had too.

But look at who counters her, many strong meta picks like Jayce and Kennen. And some champions outright destroy her(even if not meta) like Quinn.

Maybe she just roflstomps bronze because they don't know how to handle her? http://i.imgur.com/R4VyNFE.jpg Oh wait... they also don't know how to play her...

She performs well above diamond so that is nice. But she doesn't even hit the top 10 until master/challenger.

Why exactly are players in Bronze-low Diamond posting complaints every day about how many dashes Riven gets or her being manaless? She is trash in low tiers of play. Evens out by diamond and only becomes a problem in high high tiers.

Now. If suggestions were "Nerf high tier play by nerfing some specific mechanics only they use" I would be somewhat behind them.

But suggestions are actually "Give her mana costs, nerf her Q cooldown, nerf all her dash ranges and nerf her shield scaling!" Which is just gutting.

Or people who think they are reasonable "Nerf her scalings and cooldowns but buff her base damage, HP and HP regen." Yeh so she can become Tanken, since atm she relies on building tons of AD to be useful she cannot efficiently build pure tank, triforce tank or any of the other Skirmisher tank stuff people QQ about. If Riven builds tank she does no damage and her shield is trash, if she builds AD she does damage but is squish with no internal sustain and her only tanking steroid being a skill based 1.5 second active mitigation.

As she is. She is one of their healthier designs. Bad if you are bad at her. Good if you are good with her. Strong if fed. Weak if shut down. Must build damage to do damage.

Her only major balancing issues are A: She is overtuned in high levels and undertuned in low levels. This is however a systemic problem with LoL balancing in general being balanced around trash to master alike making some champs noob friendly but worthless in high tiers and some champs master friendly and trash in noob tiers with some inbetweeners around.

B: She hard counters a couple champions too hard and is hard countered by a couple champions too hard. Some matchups are just rock-paper-scissors for her. This is true for a lot of champions especially fellow carries and hyper carries.

Overall. Riven does shit in low tiers. Average in high tiers. And too good in the highest tiers. So until you reach tiers where it matters. Suggestions like "Lets give her mana Costs, remove AA cancels, remove wall hopping and nerf her shield CD" are counter productive.

In the end people just enjoy some champions. For their fantasy, their moveset, their culture, their design, their lore, their voice acting, their model. Etc. Try to keep this in mind when suggesting that people's champion should just be gutter or removed. We are all here to have fun.

Thank you for reading.

12 Comments

Zero Skill Tank2 votes

Someone mean could point out that Riven players are among the most toxic, and sportsmanlike players tend to win more games [slayer-jinx-wink]

(and they wouldn't be wrong at all)

Mira Arya Enthe1 votes

Iunno man, tyler1 man. ;P

MissingKayo2 votes

lol don't bother trying to defend the community's favorite champions to QQ about 24/7

Ralanr2 votes

As long as Riven doesn't break CC then I don't care about her strength.

Mira Arya Enthe3 votes

I mean, that is a bug, Riot will fix it.

Ralanr3 votes

I know. I'm glad.

Automated Riven1 votes

Thats also really really hard to do I have tried to replicate it with no success

Big Lincoln2 votes

I think Riven belongs to the group of champions that are extremely obnoxious regardless of strength.

A lot of it could be perceived strength of a champion; like Riven's ability to constantly jump around and doing a lot of damage very quickly makes people feel like they have little agency in dealing with her, so she draws a lot of flak when she gets popular. (I hate her a lot too.)

My issue with her is that she's a double standard on Riot's part. Other champions have had their animation cancels removed and been balanced around not having them, but Riven basically only functions when you can use them consistently and dump your rotation quickly and get out. If Riot didn't consider that other champions having these were sustainable or 'healthy' then I can't fathom why only Riven being balanced entirely around the mechanic is fine.

Mira Arya Enthe1 votes

ADCs all animation cancel for kiting. Many mages do some minor canceling during spell casts while moving. It it quite common.

TyrekGoldenspear2 votes

Excellent post Mira.

Can you do one for Soraka pls?

Mira Arya Enthe2 votes

Maybe in the future. I've rustled enough jimmies for one day.

The Yetii Rider2 votes

People in Bronze and other low elos don't complain about her because she beats them in game, if that was true all the Zed hate from before wouldn't have come out either.

They complain because she beats them in lane. Riven is a win-lane, lose-game type of champion. This is for two reasons, neither of which have to do with the skill cap of the champion.

  1. She cannot build tank when she is behind. Renekton, Garen, Darius, and many other lane bullies function perfectly fine if they fall behind in lane and just build tank instead. Not Riven. She has to build AD, and when she can't farm up a Cleaver quickly she becomes useless very quickly.

  2. She's not a tank. Riven's AOE CC and initiation is pretty sub-par, and her being in top lane generally forces a jungler to play tank (which affects the jungler's clear speed) or means her team has no tank (which affects her win rate horribly). This isn't as big an issue for Jayce, Kennen and Quinn because those champions can contribute very well to a siege. Riven is nigh useless in a siege and also nigh useless in a team fight when she's behind or when the enemy front liner is too big for her to get through.

None of this has anything to do with how frustrating she is to lane against. Which is the problem for most people.

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