Can we fix toxic Akali now?

I NEED HEALlNG·Jan 12, 2018·44 votes·3,115 views

SHE GOT DUMPSTERED in my lane. i played the lane so damn well, but as soon as she got to level 6, and a hextech, the laning phase didn't even matter. I couldn't build against her. I couldn't rely on my tower because she heals more than it can do damage. She became so off tanky there was no point in fighting her. I couldn't build against her hybrid damage. My team and jungler was doing great, but as soon as this fuck got a hextech and her ult, it's like the fun competitive part of the game just shuts the fuck down.

116 Comments

Godking YuuumieJan 12, 201813 votes

The problem with Akali is that there is no chance to mechanically outplay her. There are no skillshots to dodge, there are no timings to play around, as with vladimir q. There are no special circumstances she needs to hit to use multiple dashes, as with Diana ulti. There is no way to reveal her stealth, there is no way to stun her and wait out her q duration as the duration is longer than the cooldown. She is one of the few absolutely binary champions in the game, where if she's stronger she's going to kill you and there is almost nothing you can do about it but if you're stronger you're gonna kill her and there is almost nothing you can do about it.

ThefrostyvikingJan 12, 20183 votes

Except, you know, she doesn't actually get that strong unless she has a good matchup or if you fight her in the smoke.

I´ve beaten Akali top repetedly playing Kayle, jax and Irelia, despite them all being supposed to be bad matchups into akali, just because i always instantly ran away if she tried to smokebomb near me.

Then if she wanted to fight without it i won pretty much every single time if even in health and scores which usually is the case if the jungler doesn't towerdive alone x)

Lios AshenbladeJan 13, 20181 votes

The arguments being tossed around are that she is entirely binary 1/0 Does she have the smoke check yes or no, if yes you are dead, if no, she MIGHT be dead

ThefrostyvikingJan 13, 20181 votes

.......You know i did write that the entire idea for dealing with the smoke is to just run away if she uses it, kinda like you´d run if Cassiopeia lands a Q on you or if fighting with a Syndra only to realize she has stacked spheres around.

She won't get any kills unless you screw up too badly, or if the matchup favors her a lot.

My point being, just because she uses smoke you won't die, only time you are certain to die when she uses it is if you stay ontop of it without moving away.

If that wasn't the case she´d win all lanes unconditionally as long as the player isn't boosted, and she´d be far more popular.

While i do agree that her kit is inherently flawed i do also think that people are making a chicken out of a feather in the matter, she is not really much worse than Fizz, kata or Zed most of the time.

LufistJan 12, 20189 votes

[deleted]

ISLAMICWARRIOR99Jan 13, 20185 votes

Bc if it didn't she would feed 10000 kills to every meta champ in the game.

Xerath Aim BotJan 12, 20188 votes

Everyone knows you're supposed to pink ward Akali.

ThefrostyvikingJan 12, 20188 votes

What did you play against her?

Like you´ve made a lot of general statements but if you actually smashed her so hard in lane it should have been possible to just dumpster her.....unless you played like Ornn,fiora or vladimir or another of the handful of champs that she hard bashes.

Akali is SO HOTJan 12, 20182 votes

Vlad beats Akali super hard

ThefrostyvikingJan 12, 20185 votes

...Admittedly i just looked at OP.GG and checked which ones she had a good winrate against toplane, i don't have any personal experience.

Vlad is apparently her second best with her having a ~~56% winrate in the matchup, only one she is supposed to beat harder is the ornn matchup sitting at 59%.

Akali is SO HOTJan 12, 20182 votes

I was talking about mid not top. Akali beats Vlad top because he can't escape with his pool due to the long lane. He beats her mid cuz he can safely poke her and get back to turret with his pool.

ThefrostyvikingJan 12, 20182 votes

Ah fair enough, i didn't consider that as Akali has generally been played toplane ever since the assassin update ....tweaks? or even a bit before than

GarthBrooksXDJan 12, 20188 votes

Shes fuckn broken as shit. This is why tf blade can get 3 accounts to rank 1,2 and another in top 100. Akali. rank 1 Tf blade akali----- 70% (191W 80L) 2.96:1 KDA. A player considered mediocre last year just shitting on everyone including challenger games cuz this champ is stupid as fukkkkk!

PeritheusJan 12, 20186 votes

But isn't that her weakness? Garbage early game, strong once lvl 6 spike and Gunblade?

Edit: Alright my bad everyone, I didn't know what you all meant until I laned against 1 this season nor read any patch notes on her since s7,read what you went through, thought it was just gonna be some abusable early, play safe farm fest always once she hits lvl 6 and gb win teamfights ordeal that she once had going on,not anymore.

but now,ever since the runes/masteries been scrapped for wonky 1s that made certain champs obsolete and other few rising due to having better loaded base kits that were never really affected by runes/masteries while the rest of the champs become meh,

made the game even snowballier than s7, everyones defense got weaker (no 27 sca mr, 200+ sca hp,sca 15 arm/ 5 arm and masteries improving them) while the offense is still there I legit see teams of 5 ad trying to go full ad, sups like taric and janna going full ap, and I don't think it's gonna stop there with the nerf hammer, It's probably involves a lot more champs well being now at this rate and knowing rito it'll take a LONG time to fix it.

I NEED HEALlNGJan 12, 201819 votes

{quoted}

But isn't that her weakness? Garbage early game, strong once lvl 6 spike and Gunblade?

there's no early game anymore. that's the problem. Her "early game" end at about 7 mins in. With the changes to the pace of the game she needs a clearer window for opportunity. She is jun not fun to play against, at all. Even early she's extremely safe. I hate it

PeritheusJan 12, 20182 votes

I thought even in the past, once she hits that point play safe, buy some mr/health/pink ward and outburst/cc her, she'll out duel you at that point and aren't games already dictated to end in like the first 10-20 mins/champ select cause it's snowbally

DauntJan 12, 20184 votes

You can't really outburst Akali. You just look for grouped fights instead since she's weaker there.

junglerboy16Jan 13, 20181 votes

Unless she got a few solo kills off her level 6 gun blade spike and got ahead even a little, then she can just reset off team fights instead.

She's a midgame powerhouse (which is where most games end right now, 2-3 full items), and her heavy mixed damage keeps her dangerous until tanks can hit late game builds.

Kingdom CornJan 13, 20181 votes

[{quoted}](name=I NEED HEALlNG,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=sWWkEocN,comment-id=00000000,timestamp=2018-01-12T07:53:46.233+0000)

there's no early game anymore. that's the problem. Her "early game" end at about 7 mins in. With the changes to the pace of the game she needs a clearer window for opportunity. She is jun not fun to play against, at all. Even early she's extremely safe. I hate it

isnt that good? late game is 15 minutes in.

I NEED HEALlNGJan 13, 20181 votes

[{quoted}](name=Kingdom Corn,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=sWWkEocN,comment-id=000000000003,timestamp=2018-01-13T00:46:06.224+0000)

isnt that good? late game is 15 minutes in.

that means her early game is reduced to maybe the first 3 min basically. Come on now

Dio BentoJan 12, 201825 votes

{quoted}

But isn't that her weakness? Garbage early game, strong once lvl 6 spike and Gunblade?

No, she's not weak early.

ViridianEightJan 12, 20186 votes

yes she is weak early, thats now her kit works. Without her ult she is easily bullied. Thats why you harras her pre 6 and hope u get a gold advantage by then.

DauntJan 12, 201815 votes

Gl harassing her through her sustain. Also she's not weak early on top where she's mostly played since she can bully most matchups.

Pierce The VealJan 12, 20182 votes

{quoted}

Gl harassing her through her sustain. Also she's not weak early on top where she's mostly played since she can bully most matchups.

I just think she needs to be reverted to pre-mini rework.

Anyway, she doesn't actually have that much sustain pre-6, but her sustain is pretty decent. As long as you can continuously poke her she will be forced to back off pretty quickly. The best time to poke her of course is when she's coming in to last hit/heal off of passive.

LordGeovanniJan 12, 20181 votes

Thats because her sustain was tied to the damage her spells and mostly her e did on large minion waves pre rework and also by building ap she didnt get damage the same time on her passive now her passive scales harder than ever because both parts of it scale with both ad and ap she has no slow part to the game anymore but because of adcs dps being too high she cant deal with them before they kill her. also her passive doesnt have enough cooldown for counter play. her current kit is much better for counterplay (she still has 3 targeted dashes for engage and w to survive and excape) her passive and w are her biggest problems either lower w's up time when cast or increase its cooldown by alot through cdr

Pierce The VealJan 14, 20181 votes

Truth be told old akali just scaled better but was actually bad in early game. Now this Akali is actually less fun to play while being bs to deal with early and mid game.

I mean, if adding another dash and paking her passive into a two hit passive made not a stat checking champion I would be fine, but all that really happened is she lost consistency and gained gimmicks instead.

LordGeovanniJan 14, 20181 votes

Old alkali only scaled better when she had no internal cooldown between her R

Pierce The VealJan 15, 20181 votes

{quoted}

Old alkali only scaled better when she had no internal cooldown between her R

Well no, old Akali's internal cooldown between R's was 2/1.5/1, which still made her better than current Akali. Furthermore her R had higher base damage AND 0.5 AP scaling as opposed to current Akali's 0.35.

And though it seems insignificant, lategame her passive added ~150-200 damage to her autos, which adds up. Furthermore she was capable of adding in a few spammed E's to add to the damage to finish off an opponent quickly. Her spell vamp gave her sustain based on her actul damage instead of based on her stats+bases. Aka you can mitigate it using MR.

ISLAMICWARRIOR99Jan 13, 20184 votes

Tons of toplaners shit on akali and a lot of them can either ignore her dmg or poke her out

General Esdeath Jan 12, 20183 votes

And then she uses Q AA and takes 1/4 of your HP while healing

AirKingNeoJan 13, 20182 votes

Spams Q to zone you off the wave while perma healing off her passive.

Z3SleeperJan 12, 20184 votes

E A S I L Y B U L L I E D

woodvsmurphJan 12, 20182 votes

There's a reason she's popping up more and more in people's games and in streams/YouTube. With her shroud and built-in sustain, she can't be properly bullied early cuz stealth/invis and sustain. And she can go pretty tanky yet still have strong burst damage.

She's definitely not tank ekko of the past, but she can be a less toxic version of the same. Or... just go damage and pop everything in ult range that isn't a tank with a few quick hits.

Lios AshenbladeJan 13, 20181 votes

And frackin Electrocute....

ISLAMICWARRIOR99Jan 13, 20181 votes

Yes, she is

Troll for TrumpJan 13, 20181 votes

Boi, she's stronger than Darius early right now. Not even exaggerating.

PeritheusJan 13, 20181 votes

Hmm, it's probably the removal of runes and masteries where everyone took the you know 5 arm, 27+mr lvl and 200hp lvl 18,1% crit, attack speed lethality mpen,cdr lvl etc, where certain champs for example Darius become obsolete without it, this preseason and probably will be for a LONG time, because these runes suck and never really fixed a majority of problems people pointed out in the past, all ur prob gonna see is just 1/4 champs with better kits with better base stats and base dmg that can synergize with these awful rune, but hey at least somewhere around 3/4 between half of champs still feel unviable.

TLDR: A certain pool of champs are unplayable due to removal of runes/masteries, everyone's squishier now due to no arm, mr,health, only meta few picks will arise from wonky runes w/the rest meh, high base stat, jack of all trades kit, dmg champs still destroy.

DauntJan 12, 20186 votes

Remove item 3146 It's just a toxic way to balance AP assassins that covers their weaknesses.

ViridianEightJan 12, 20183 votes

or maybe you can get good

DauntJan 12, 20187 votes

xd a silver 5 support player is telling me to get good. As someone who abuses the item i can safely say that it's toxic. There's literally not an argument that can deny that the item is stupid. You're free to try to prove me wrong tho. But with actual arguments please.

Xerath Aim BotJan 12, 20182 votes

{quoted}

xd a silver 5 support player is telling me to get good. As someone who abuses the item i can safely say that it's toxic. There's literally not an argument that can deny that the item is stupid. You're free to try to prove me wrong tho. But with actual arguments please.

Yeah...but it's the same crap more or less, 4-5 seasons ago less the active dmg/heal of dmg dealt.

I'd say it's the champion changes and various imbalance of buffs and nerfs across the board.

{quoted}

Gl harassing her through her sustain. Also she's not weak early on top where she's mostly played since she can bully most matchups.

Until this new tank meta...well...some tanks that is.

DauntJan 12, 20185 votes

Just because it was always there doesn't mean it's actually healthy. The item literally just makes weaknesses of Akali and Katarina disappear when it comes to jumping in for a kill. It promotes unhealthy gameplay. The item is also a generalist and is overloaded. It doesn't give you a niche, it gives you more unnecessary burst damage to you kit and soft cc that isn't needed on the champions that build it since they're balanced around not having CC. And assassins shouldn't get so much sustain.

The only way the item is justified is with how much it costs. But even then it's really gold efficient and it shouldn't be an excuse to why it gives such a huge powerspike. In a sense it's similar to Duskblade. It should either be removed or heavily reworked into something like a bruiser item when they eventually get to the AP itemization update.

They should add more niche items that can help them so they actually have a choice in builds instead of having a generalist that doesn't let you build anything else since it's too good to pass up on.

MkShenGreatAgainJan 13, 20183 votes

As an ex-Akali main I'm very comfortable saying she has borderline no counterplay, even when behind.

Gelato da KoalaOct 27, 20181 votes

{quoted}

As an ex-Akali main I'm very comfortable saying she has borderline no counterplay, even when behind.

pretty much sums up the disgusting laning experience few days ago I played kassadin, destroyed an akali, outfarmed her, she got hextec, lvl 6, and even suddently it didnt even fucking matter just how bad of a player that akali was- I just lost. Fun and interactive.

Ahri BakaJan 12, 20182 votes

You just reminded me yesterday , I was Ashe and came to roam mid with my support , I was on 50% Hp , our support and our midlaner also had 50% hp the enemy Akali was 0/3 and 20 %hp and her jungler LeeSin was there with 30%hp , we started the fight 3 vs 2 , I had heal and ult , didn't use them because there is no need , suddenly " you have been slained " " enemy double kill " " enemy triple kill" and now she has 90% ?????????????????????????????

Xerath Aim BotJan 12, 201818 votes

[{quoted}](name=Hikari Sakata,realm=EUNE,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=sWWkEocN,comment-id=0005,timestamp=2018-01-12T14:50:29.476+0000)

You just reminded me yesterday , I was and came to roam mid with my support , I was on 50% Hp , our support and our midlaner also had 50% hp the enemy Akali was 0/3 and 20 %hp and her jungler was there with 30%hp , we started the fight 3 vs 2 , I had heal and ult , didn't use them because there is no need , suddenly " you have been slained " " enemy double kill " " enemy triple kill" and now she has 90% ?????????????????????????????

Match history/op.gg determined that, that is a lie.

Akali was 2/3 before she got the triple kill on you guys. Your mid laner was also killed by Akali's jungler that same minute she got the 3x kill. Akali's jungler Kayn was also 7/4. Your support was a Lux .