It's stupid dumb how badly he locks up the lane. You can't 2v2 him at all. He just gets to the point one ult from him will just shit on you and it makes little to no sense why he's allowed to do so much as a "support" but have mid lane damage. hopefully the mana changes will fix that.
PhantomGG23 voteshonestly the core issue with brand support and why it exists is the fact of how gold generation works for bot laners, and the fact it's actually easier for him to get gold as a support.
In mid lane he can get ganked, he can get solo out played, his ult has less options to bounce onto. Brands whole design simply works much better as a support/tag team type partner where he has a partner to protect him and a partner he can protect. He gets gold faster off support items, he has more options of people to kill, he becomes harder to gank. ALl these factors and a few i have yet to mention simply makes him stronger a support.
sir d wreck4 votesI play a bit of Brand for a long time now and there is a few things I notice playing him as support and as mid. In the mid lane it's a lot harder to poke the enemy because Brand needs to get close, which draws minion agro if you try to combo the enemy with more than just his pillar. You can hit the odd pillar if you're good with it, but it's much easier to do that bot lane where you can combo off of minions and two champions - while using bushes (which I think help a lot).
I think the core issue with Brand support is that it's so hard to poke with him in the mid lane, and he's very mana gated. In bot lane he doesn't need to CS, so he can use his strong early base damage to zone the enemy off CC while getting to ignore CS completely. Brand was a very good support well before they increased the amount of gold you get from support items. I think the problem is his kit is combo oriented and AE based, which is where it can be utilized better bot lane because there is two champs to play off of. He definitely gets a lot of gold due to his passive, but I really think his kit is just bad for mid lane. I'd love for him to be a mid laner... but I find way more success with him as a support. Just my 2 cents.
SociopathFriend1 votesI've been repeating that for months now. A lot of the "off-metal" support picks are people who simply benefit more from being bot with an additional laner. Brand is all about AoE- AoE that's wasted against only a solo laner.
Innate - AoE Q - single target hit only W - AoE E - Can be AoE R - Multi-bounce
A Brand with equal items and only one laner to combo will quite literally do less damage than a Brand with two laners. It's something you wouldn't think needs to be spelled out but it's true. A Brand with less items and two laners still at some point dishes out more damage than his more advanced counterpart because there's just more people to hit with the AoE.
Zyra has a similar issue Innate - Seeds Q - AoE, spawns plants that attack enemies W - More seeds E - AoE, CC for all targets hit R - AoE, CC for all targets hit
Nothing about Zyra was all that good of a reason to be a solo-laner, nothing about Zyra before her rework gave her all that good of a reason to be a solo-laner either. If you want to dish out a lot of damage against multiple champions with AoE, you want the lane with the more champions in it, and that's bot-lane.
LordForrest7 votesI disagree on Zyra. You are forgetting that her plants can only attack 1 enemy at a time and in her current state most of her damage is in her plants. So actually only having 1 target in lane would be better for her kill potential.
Also damage wasn't the biggest part of why Zyra was dragged to bot lane. It was the vision and area denial/control she could bring to bear and the free cdr she had on release.
Basically I wish they killed support Zyra with her rework and moved her back to her mid roots, instead they tried to do both and proceeded to screw mid players over to weaken support.
SociopathFriend1 votesKill potential yes, raw damage no because of how short their range is. She offers more damage in terms of poke with multiple people and securing a kill with Zyra has always been a fairly drawn-out process.
Also as you said, vision and area denial.
PhantomGG1 votesI've been repeating that for months now. A lot of the "off-metal" support picks are people who simply benefit more from being bot with an additional laner. Brand is all about AoE- AoE that's wasted against only a solo laner.
Innate - AoE Q - single target hit only W - AoE E - Can be AoE R - Multi-bounce
A Brand with equal items and only one laner to combo will quite literally do less damage than a Brand with two laners. It's something you wouldn't think needs to be spelled out but it's true. A Brand with less items and two laners still at some point dishes out more damage than his more advanced counterpart because there's just more people to hit with the AoE.
Zyra has a similar issue Innate - Seeds Q - AoE, spawns plants that attack enemies W - More seeds E - AoE, CC for all targets hit R - AoE, CC for all targets hit
Nothing about Zyra was all that good of a reason to be a solo-laner, nothing about Zyra before her rework gave her all that good of a reason to be a solo-laner either. If you want to dish out a lot of damage against multiple champions with AoE, you want the lane with the more champions in it, and that's bot-lane.
Than the protection he gets just off having a lane buddy makes his quality of life so much better. While bot laners may give their partners a lot of shit of stuff like.
"oh this adc/support sucks dick" in all reality unless that dude is a total fucking moron, having a bot lane partner, makes you so much safer vs being a lone mid laner or top laner. Fun fact, When jhin was first released he had a lot of tools that showed he could of been a capable mid laner, and fact is if you take him to a one v one duel in mid lane, he actually stomps a lot of different match ups. His core issue in why he's not a mid laner is largely because he is so fucking easy to camp. Literally any jungler can just walk up to jhin and kill him in and one v two scenario. if jhin doesn't have flash he's a straight up gonner when it comes to ganks. Same philsophy with brand. Brands only option without flash, in many scenarios, is just to just flash out attempt to kill you. For his stun is pretty damn easy to dodge.
AwesomeGuyDj9 votesI think the mana changes actually will push him out of mid more. He already has wave clear problems. (assuming he gets hit with the mana nerfs)
Gabresol1 votesI think the mana changes actually will push him out of mid more. He already has wave clear problems. (assuming he gets hit with the mana nerfs)
Actually. The mana nerfs are gonna hit him even harder on bot, since once he runs out of mana, your adc is absicly in a 1v2 and you have no way to stop, say, a Rakan form allinning you
Danjeng1 votesSupport relies mainly on mana regen, while mid on flat mana.
AwesomeGuyDj1 votesOr maybe it makes it so brand isnt a complete cancer of a support and actually has to manage his mana.
Attticus Finch4 votesBrand needs an actual rework in order to be a viable mid laner. His KIT does not work mid, and no amount of numbers tweaking to his damage will change that.
Pika Fox4 votesAs a support main, you need to play better. Brand is an offensive all in support with near 0 utility, of course hes going to bring damage. Pick leona into him or thresh, anyone that can hard engage, and he will get crushed in lane. And once brand falls behind, he becomes utterly useless. He wont have the damage to stay relevant, and his rylais will be delayed so his midgame utility via slow procs wont exist.
Attticus Finch10 votesDo not listen to this man's advice on counter-picks. Brand DESTROYS tanks in the laning phase. The proper counter-picks to Brand are poke champions that can poke him over the minion wave.
https://lolalytics.com/ranked/worldwide/platinum/plus/champion/Brand/Support/
Supreme Senpai693 votesHe beats tanks because his % HP damage and because disengage tanks can't do anything about the free poke. Like Braum and Ali just have to take it. But Blitz would be good. Anyone who can engage on him. Leona would be good. If you can force a fight on him reliably, you counter him. Or you can just be a normal support. They have shields heals and poke. Completely out trade him.
People like Ali and Braum though? They have to legit walk up to him to do anything. They're better at protecting against engage champions. Like a Lee Sin or a Leona. It's sorta just rock paper scissors.
My Waifu Vanilla1 votesBlitz only works until level 6. After level 6 chances are if you hook him he is going to just blow his load and do enough damage for his ADC to clean up the now 1v1 since Blitz has nothing and Brand did half of both of your health with REW+Ignite. The problem with Brand is he only NEEDS one rotation to win a fight meaning if he dies at the start but still gets spells off it doesn't matter. All of his damage is front and backloaded meaning after he slams his face on all his buttons he just stands there for like 8 seconds auto attacking anyway.
AwesomeGuyDj1 votesLiterally the thing i hate most as brand. In a team fight i blow my load and then im just standing there awkwardly as my team fight.
Pika Fox1 votesHe doesnt beat or destroy tanks, especially in the laning phase. He needs 3 abilities to deal good damage, leona spikes at 2, and even moreso at 3, and her W is strong enough that his damage wont kill you. His W costs too much to spam poke, and his E puts him in kill range, meaning he cant harass you at all, and will likely get initiated on before he can proc his E.
His % HP damage is not enough to kill you. If he cannot rely on his base damages to back up his %hp damage, he wont be able to win.
Just dont pick someone like Ali and youll be fine, though even ali has outplay potential with his ult depending on what happens, as it removes CC of which brand only has 1 of.
Danjeng2 votesAh yes, tanks are an excellent pick against Brand's immense AoE % hp damage. Especially tanks that encourage clumping near the ADC, such as Braum or as you've said Thresh.
Pika Fox1 votesHe literally cant kill you fast enough pre 6. Shut him down before he hits 6 and get a lead, and he falls off the map. His % HP isnt igh enough to do all the work on its own, and with an early game ADC to back you up he will literally die before he can cast 3 abilities.
egOrhythm1 votes[{quoted}](name=Pika Fox,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=8c7OLhtO,comment-id=0005,timestamp=2018-04-22T00:14:58.630+0000)
As a support main, you need to play better. Brand is an offensive all in support with near 0 utility, of course hes going to bring damage. Pick leona into him or thresh, anyone that can hard engage, and he will get crushed in lane. And once brand falls behind, he becomes utterly useless. He wont have the damage to stay relevant, and his rylais will be delayed so his midgame utility via slow procs wont exist.
E-Q (point blank stun) W-R and you're dead.
"But I built tank!" - passive % health damage so... And considering the first item any good support brand rushes is a liandri's torment... LOL good luck playing tanks into him. He'll shred and burst you from 100 to 0 in one spell rotation.
Pika Fox1 votesEQ is very unreliable, and Es range is horrific. Hes not going to get EQ off before any of your engage, and thresh Q/Leona E will keep him in place even through the stun should he even land it while youre getting onto him. Any CC while hes even slightly out of position and hes dead.
His passive is garbage early, as he doesnt have items to back it up for his damage. He cant shred you 100-0 pre 6, in which thresh, blitz and leona set up to kill by level 3 at the latest, meaning he literally doesnt have the damage to kill you without running oom first.
By the time he becomes relevant in levels, he will be so far behind in gold that it wont even matter. Good luck playing as brand when youre behind on gold. Your passive is god awful on its own.
I NEED HEALlNG1 votesyou can literally say that about anyone. except akali/yasuo.
Pika Fox1 votesOnly if you ignore literally everything i said.
SSmotzer4 votesAny champion can play the support role and bring nothing but damage. Brand is just one of those champions who's damage is reliable enough with little to no gold to be viable. Not to mention having more champions for his passive to proc on is exponentially stronger.
The only real fix is to make him more reliant on items for damage and for him to have a passive and ult that does not benefit from procing off of multiple champions.
The short answer, he needs a rework, his kit is too reliant on there being more than one champion around.
My Waifu Vanilla1 votesOr they push him into the carry role in bot lane in 8.10. If Brand needs items and can actually "lane" well he would almost always rather go bot to take farm than go mid EVEN IF bot lane isn't optimal for mages after 8.10. If Brand gets mid lane buffs to his waveclear or whatever I would not be surprised if he just takes those buffs bot lane with a support because no matter what they do to him he is still going to do better against 2 people than 1 and him being ridiculously immobile means he is camp food mid whereas he can at least have someone to help him out in a gank bot lane through wards or just peel.
Pandemic Punch4 votesTo counter him, all you need is the following:
Once you have all of these items combined, you can survive with 10% health. You're welcome
meowwow72 voteswouldn't make it worse since it's just a big amount of solo hp against his % max hp dmg
Infernape3 votesYes and no. Yes, you will burn more, however you will regen once you're out of combat (provided you hit the health threshold).
Pandemic Punch1 voteshahahaha! Well! Adaptive helm will make it's HP more effective though. It also synergizes well with Locket's active. The most important thing though is that you build all 11 items at the same time. That is the most important!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
xelaker3 votesthat isn't a psa that's an opinion
Ryrynounet1 voteswhat does mean PSA btw ? I never knew :/
xelaker1 votes"Public Service Announcement" people use it when they want their opinions to sound like legit, factual stuffs.
Ryrynounet1 votesThanks man n.n
FrostQueensPlane2 votesToo late for that the season he was reworked was the season meddler decided he had enough of people calling him a janna degenerate so he spent the season playing brand support.
OniZetsu6662 votesBrand is just overall better in bot lane. Especially for low elo. Every person I ask how to climb out of bronze and silver and they say "Play Brand, its all about ap just melt everyone and practice enchanters on the side in norms because by the time you climb out people will stop sticking together" (I decided to stick with soraka for the global ult and pounds of cc..seems to be working out). As someone else said his ult is bouncy and if its at mid lane there really isnt much point in it his stun is perfect for an adc to get some damage in. He is just like lux in that way...needs to be defined as either a support or a mid laner. And both seem to have elements of support to them but their damage is so damn high that it feels like you are going up against a mid laner at bot.
-Insight from a current bronze getting the fuck out of the hell so take my thoughts with grain of salt.
CoffeeAndSadness2 votesThey don't care. Just like when they tried to push karma as a mid laner and fucked her up. They will do the same thing with brand and make him a support.
taleofsonata1 votesPlay Brand Vs a Yasuo or Zed? Brand mains don't want to deal with those cancerous champions.
Rathar Dashing2 votesBut really, who does?
Entheos Geon1 votesHuh? I have no problem with either of those champs as Brand. As soon as they go into melee range, hitting them with an E>Q>W and walking away is pretty easy.
DeadUnborn1 votesPSA: Brands ult is way better on a 2v2 scenario than a solo lane, so crying about it makes little sense
I NEED HEALlNG1 votesPSA: Brands ult is way better on a 2v2 scenario than a solo lane, so crying about it makes little sense
ao lets give him mid lane damage with little drawback just cause he can 2v2. ok
DeadUnborn1 votesin a solo lane as long as your opponent gets away from minions it is useless. in a 2v2 that is less likely to happen and because you are dealing damage to 2 champions the value of your ult goes way up... it is simple math really...
Wolfeur1 votesHow is that a PSA?
I NEED HEALlNG1 votesHow is that a PSA?
it's public, It's a service i provided, it's an announcement i made. enjoy.
Wolfeur1 votesYou stated an opinion, that's all. It's not a PSA. A PSA is basically a useful "Did you know".
Acronyms mean more than what they're composed of. Otherwise, Call of Duty is an RTS and Borderlands 2 a MOBA.
Ryusaether1 votesI honestly think he should be pushed back to midlane as well. His kit is pretty toxic bot, it's like if lux could support properly: when champs with these big AoE can use them without having to focus on farm and just to hit you, it's pretty annoying especially early when you don't have boots (speaking of which, he basically forces you to buy them, thus delaying your purchases/spikes).
Dunno which changes could help him gi back to mid, maybe some mana issues coupled with more mana gain on E killing minions, or a general less gold generation botlane.
Pinkaj1 votesI'd say lower his base damage and have better AP scalings instead.
My Waifu Vanilla1 votesChances are they will just nerf his bases and buff his ratios in 8.10 and keep brand in bot lane, but as the carry. They want to put more people bot lane as the carry position and with the work on Kennen and Azir going on PBE they are clearly candidates they probably want going down there. Brand also makes sense since he literally ONLY goes bot lane to hit two people with his abilities and he can have someone back him up while he bullies. He could STILL bully if he was in a carry position, but with his current kit he doesn't benefit AS much from gold as an actual ADC taking farm (due to his massive bases) and does actually run out of mana if he wants to push and farm on live.
Samflash31 votesI highly recommend - 
. You don't even need to upgrade it past this point.
There's nothing I love better than watching a Brand flashing to the turret to land his combo when I'm half health, but I live long enough to destroy him, and deal the final blow.
Kadexe1 votesTbh his kit just makes more sense in 2v2, he has so much AoE damage built into his kit especially his ult.