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Let's talk about some ACTUAL Favoritism

ModCaptainMårvelous··94 votes·4,555 views

Boards likes to throw around favoritism like saying it will get your more BE.

"Riot loves ADCs." "All they do is buff tanks." "Nobody loves mages at Riot." "AP Supports always loved."

Naw, naw. Let me talk about something which is by-and-large the most appalling case of double-standards in League and at Riot.

Ezreal

I know what you're going to say: "lmao why are you bitching about Ez preseason dude just-" No, quit that. hear me out: Since I started playing this game back in Season 1 (or 0 it was years ago), Ezreal has ALWAYS been someone who broke shit. In fact, at this point I think it's tradition for Ezreal to break one item a season.

Lizard Elder? Thanks Ezreal. Runic Echos Runeglaive (Thanks AirKIngNeo)? This belongs to Ezreal now. Kleptomancy? Ezreal's turf now boy.

I could go on but you get my point. What's frustrating, however, is that Ezreal gets to keep being Ezreal. Take Lucian for example: When Lucian was breaking stuff, he would either get kneecapped or get one of those soft reworks that shuffles everything around. Rengar breaking something? Dumpster for you, kitty cat. Ryze? Just...Ryze? In general?

I don't get how Ezreal keeps avoiding the rework stick. People like to bring up Tryn (Who is also an avid avoider of the rework beatstick) but I really don't get how Riot is ok with every on-hit/empowered auto-attack item having to pass the Ezreal test before it gets put in the game or allowed to exist? Can we just do something with Ezreal? I'm tired of coming in every single Season to see this one character messing around with the newest thing he's breaking.

Maybe it has to do with Ezreal being the name of a designer so he takes up the trinity of "My original character" at Riot but whatever. Just do something about this guy already.

114 Comments

Mordepool45 votes

Your not wrong. That said he's a Marksman soooooooooooooo

Rebonack12 votes

{quoted}

Your not wrong. That said he's a Marksman soooooooooooooo

Kog was breaking OnHit items and Riot knocked him upside the head with the de-work stick.

The only champ allowed to break itemization like this is Ezreal.

Poske2 votes

{quoted}

Kog was breaking OnHit items and Riot knocked him upside the head with the de-work stick.

The only champ allowed to break itemization like this is Ezreal.

Kog didnt get reworked for that reason

ModCaptainMårvelous30 votes

Lucian was the example I used but let's take a peek at some other ADCs.

Draven got his passive reworked because he was bleeding people out in lane.

KogMaw got his entire kit reverted because it just wasn't balanceable with on-hit items.

Quinn has gotten all sorts of changes.

Caitlyn has had all her power funneled into her traps.

Meanwhile Ezreal's last two changes (not counting preseason) were buffs to his Q. Y'know. The thing that keeps making on-hits a pain to balance with him.

THE RlVER KlNG15 votes

Yeah except oftentimes it took Riot an entire season or so to nerf particular ADCs, like Cait and Lucian, now it’s Trist, Twitch, and Xayah.

Riot will completely obliterate a mage or bruiser in no time but they’ll let broken ADCs be god tier for months.

ModCaptainMårvelous4 votes

And yet Ezreal has been breaking things (albeit not an overt balance issue) for almost a decade.

Ventra1173 votes

zzz you're the same type of dude that cries for lee sin nerfs i bet

ModCaptainMårvelous9 votes

What?

I'm not asking for nerfs because Ezreal is too strong or too annoying.

I'm pointing out that Ezreal screwing with on-hit effects is always a problem. This has nothing to do with how strong or weak Ezreal is at any given time but rather that Ezreal continues to be a massive outlier when it comes to most on-hit items. Usually the "on next hit" items but sometimes he'll screw with something else.

Compare this to other champions who warp the game around things they can abuse. Yasuo/Tryn probably cause problems with crit items for melee characters. Ryze used to limit what you could do with mana before his rework. etc. Just feels wrong that these characters are all rework bait but Ezreal gets to keep scooting around with his on-hit bs.

Jerry SeinfeId2 votes

{quoted}

What?

I'm not asking for nerfs because Ezreal is too strong or too annoying.

I'm pointing out that Ezreal screwing with on-hit effects is always a problem. This has nothing to do with how strong or weak Ezreal is at any given time but rather that Ezreal continues to be a massive outlier when it comes to most on-hit items. Usually the "on next hit" items but sometimes he'll screw with something else.

Compare this to other champions who warp the game around things they can abuse. Yasuo/Tryn probably cause problems with crit items for melee characters. Ryze used to limit what you could do with mana before his rework. etc. Just feels wrong that these characters are all rework bait but Ezreal gets to keep scooting around with his on-hit bs.

Gangplank does it too and lucian probably even more when it comes to standard onhit.

ModCaptainMårvelous4 votes

I addressed Lucian in the OP.

I could go on but you get my point. What's frustrating, however, is that Ezreal gets to keep being Ezreal. Take Lucian for example: When Lucian was breaking stuff, he would either get kneecapped or get one of those soft reworks that shuffles everything around. Rengar breaking something? Dumpster for you, kitty cat. Ryze? Just...Ryze? In general?

Gangplank is an interesting case in terms of on-hits because GP never really breaks on-hit effects with his Q. This is likely for a few reasons:

  • Gp is more about barrel explosions than Q-procs.
  • GP is melee and has less mobility than Ezreal
  • Ezreal has a longer range and shorter cooldown.

And of course we can talk about the raw stats.

Parrrlay: 20 / 45 / 70 / 95 / 120 (+ 100% AD), 625 Range, 5 Second CD, 40 mana cost.

vs.

Mystic Shot: 35 / 55 / 75 / 95 / 115 (+ 125% AD) (+ 40% AP), 1150 range, 5-4 second CD, 28-40 mana cost.

Mystic shot, even with being a skillshot and on a ranged champion, is just better. Bigger ratio, better CD, scaling cost, etc. I know that we can compare kits beyond this but we're trying to specifically figure out why Ezreal's on-hit is so much stronger than GP's.

The Yetii Rider6 votes

Ezreal had his ultimate cooldown nerfed by 40 fucking seconds at all ranks in 6.4.

I definitely agree with you that Ezreal's Mystic Shot is a giant headache for everyone (but I also think that he had one of the biggest nerfs in history when you look at his original Essence Flux). However, a lot of people like AP Ezreal and AP Ezreal needs Lich Bane in order to function.

RocketRelm1 votes

"Ezreal had his ultimate cooldown nerfed by 40 fucking seconds at all ranks in 6.4."

That's technically true, but deceptive as shit and makes it sound like that's a huge nerf (though you may not realize how underhanded mentioning the ult nerf like that sounds).

In 5.22, amongst other changes, Ezreal got a change to his Q that made it reduce the CD of all his spells by 1.5 instead of 1. This change wound up meaning that Ezreal got significantly more ults than was reasonable, and so after collecting data they decided to bump the ultimate cd up by 40 to scale that back. While still an overall nerf to the ultimate cd, the net result is significantly less than a flat 40 cd stapled on.

The Yetii Rider1 votes

The net result is a true expression of skill though. In order for Ezreal to not feel the significantly longer CD on his ult he needs to constantly land his Q, which consumes mana, it consumes time that could be spent CSing, it is an interaction between you and the enemy laner.

And the CD nerf is huge for lower level players.

EkyonKun2 votes

[{quoted}](name=The Yetii Rider,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=sLX4cwMZ,comment-id=00000001000200000000,timestamp=2017-11-13T04:03:31.351+0000)

The net result is a true expression of skill though. In order for Ezreal to not feel the significantly longer CD on his ult he needs to constantly land his Q, which consumes mana, it consumes time that could be spent CSing, it is an interaction between you and the enemy laner.

??? You do realize that landing the Q on....ANYTHING reduces the cooldown, yes? Even minions. So he can CS while also getting this cooldowns reduced. You make it sound like he has to hit enemy champions with his Q to reduce it.

PurpleHatter3 votes

{quoted}

Lucian was the example I used but let's take a peek at some other ADCs.

Draven got his passive reworked because he was bleeding people out in lane.

KogMaw got his entire kit reverted because it just wasn't balanceable with on-hit items.

Quinn has gotten all sorts of changes.

Caitlyn has had all her power funneled into her traps.

Meanwhile Ezreal's last two changes (not counting preseason) were buffs to his Q. Y'know. The thing that keeps making on-hits a pain to balance with him.

Ezreal has been shit for the past 6 months(before preseason) in the adc role. He was played the spring but he wasn't busted then.

Call Me Nana35 votes

isnt there a saying that goes something like:

"Every season we can expect 2 things. Ryze gets a rework, and Ezreal finds something else to abuse."

An Draoi2 votes

[{quoted}](name=Sleepy Bubble,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=sLX4cwMZ,comment-id=0003,timestamp=2017-11-12T04:23:55.606+0000)

isnt there a saying that goes something like:

"Every season we can expect 2 things. Ryze gets a rework, and Ezreal finds something else to abuse."

I love this

RainXBlade2 votes

Shrugs from PTSD from Spirit of Elder Lizard and Runeglaive Ezreal

JavelinJoe14 votes

Ezreal, Lucian, Lee Sin, Master Yi, etc... in other words generalists. Champions who are flawed in design but RIOT insists it is a numbers issue. If it was a numbers issue, they would not be routinely breaking things on a predictable rate. These champions are either unplayable or so dominant they are P/B every game. But they cant be flawed design wise, seemingly according to Riot, because they are fun to play. These are champion who for minimal risk could just destroy enemy health pools, winning most if not every game, of course they would be fun to play. No one likes to lose. And snowballing is fun. But that does not mean they are balanced or design wise ok. A good example of this is Camille. She is fun to play kit wise. Even though she kind of on the weaker side now she is still fun to play. You just will not win often without it being an effort.

Mos Deadly983 votes

Lee sin hasnt broken anything for a long time and has been balanced for two seasons. He breaks things only when people are having troble with the new jungle.

Master yi cant end up getting broken without an absolutely absurd item that is good on other champions getting into the game.

LankPants2 votes

Lee sin hasnt broken anything for a long time and has been balanced for two seasons. He breaks things only when people are having troble with the new jungle.

Earlier last season Lee spiked up to a 52% winrate with a 40% pickrate and a 25% banrate. This was about 8 months ago. Are you trying to tell me he wasn't busted then?

https://www.leagueofgraphs.com/champions/stats/leesin

EternalShock3 votes

Being busted is diffferent than breaking things

He was strong in numbers not by items

He didn’t break his champ design by abusing items like the other guy said

AirKingNeo23 votes

How is Master Yi a generalist?

Salron14 votes

It was actually Runeglaive that ez broke and that was only for 1 patch Spellblades aren't supposed to proc spell effects to begin with

And it's not like Riot gutted the item either http://puu.sh/yk8hm/e53073b5ba.png

Kleptomancy is just a terrible concept overall Ez is the worst offender of it's usage definitely, but let's not pretend only Ez is the problem here

Aside from the OG blue build Ez hasn't really broken much since then Runeglaive Ez mid was so short lived it's not worth acknowledging

DarkSoul19945 votes

Ezreal is pretty dumb with Duskblade and Dark Harvest too btw.

Thefrostyviking2 votes

He is possibly dumb with them, but Dark harvest legit takes ages to stack up unless you jungle and snowball.

Of course if you do someone on the enemy team dies, regardless of which champ you play as long as you´ve got harvest stacks.

Troll for Trump12 votes

LeeSin for a pretty damn long time too

Ventra1172 votes

lee has never abused items people just hate him because of his mobility.

ZT Xperimentor9 votes

Similar story with leesin, took them 7 years before nerfing him, which was marginal at best.

TotalJerk1 votes

Lee has been nerfed 10 times in his lifespan. Reminder that he used to be able to reduce attack speed, and ward hopping used to give shields.

Salron2 votes

And his W used to give armor And his W used to work on minions for denying enemy CS AND his W CD used to be the same for casting on wards

Seriously Lee has eaten so many nerfs in the past it's pretty disgusting people act like Riot has never touched him

The E change to no longer removed AS pretty much made him unplayable top lane

Sp33d Zer02 votes

But let's not forget he got bonus health damage on targets kicked with his ultimate though. He has gotten his fair share of buffs alongside the nerfs.

ZT Xperimentor2 votes

And how many times has he been buffed? One of the most overloaded champions, the forerunner to mobility creep.

Stars Shaper8 votes

He even breaks Lore: all the Lux, Taric and Zoe things revolve aorund how awesome he is, he even got into the Star Guardian skinline, had the first Ultimate skin that even got updated and his rather-magic artifact now has become a wepon for an Ascended of Shurima, implying that he can control something fitting for a demigod being.

Elipo6 votes

Ezreal has no interactions in lore with Taric. Those are fanfics

Stars Shaper2 votes

And I'm happy that are limited to those. It's just so much infused into the community.

VexingRaven8 votes

Can you think of a single ability that has been more problematic balance-wise than Ez proccing on-hits? That's the sole reason why he keeps breaking everything, and I don't get why they go so far out of their way to not fix it. If making it not proc on-hits makes it too weak, then buff the ability. But for god's sake remove the on-hit junk.

RainXBlade1 votes

You know, what if Ezreal still had his on-hit stuff on his Q, but it only applied half of the effects the on-hit effect/buff has?

Let's say an Ezreal has a item 3078 in his build. The normal Sheen proc of the item is 200% of your base AD. Now, let's take into account the suggested nerf to his Q. If that change were to be placed, then the Sheen proc on his Q is only 100% of your base AD.

I would also mention that for things like Kleptomancy, the amount of the gold that you pilfer and the efficiency of the consumable that you get would also be halved.

Boom! Ezreal is now balanced with on-hit effect items. He can still apply on-hit effects, but they won't be as powerful as they can are atm.

Its All Skillzz2 votes

{quoted}

You know, what if Ezreal still had his on-hit stuff on his Q, but it only applied half of the effects the on-hit effect/buff has?

Let's say an Ezreal has a item 3078 in his build. The normal Sheen proc of the item is 200% of your base AD. Now, let's take into account the suggested nerf to his Q. If that change were to be placed, then the Sheen proc on his Q is only 100% of your base AD.

I would also mention that for things like Kleptomancy, the amount of the gold that you pilfer and the efficiency of the consumable that you get would also be halved.

Boom! Ezreal is now balanced with on-hit effect items. He can still apply on-hit effects, but they won't be as powerful as they can are atm.

would make him trash tier, you are just a baby complaining about a champion with a full on skillshot kit, yea im a ezreal main ive played him every season regardless if he was trash tier or op, dont come on here spouting nonsense about a champion when you are prob stuck in bronze or silver an dont know shit, ezreal falls off hard anyone with 2 crit items will 3 shot him even if he was at 4+ items. i know unless im playing ap ez an land my entire kit a tris/jinx/caitlyn with a shiv + ie will kill you in 2 AAs. everything is imbalanced in pre season its reason they did it in preason, so they can use the data gathered during it to make changes accordingly, and appearntly the reason ezreal had a spike in win rate was due to a bug with him procing double damage on muramana much like when yasuo had the extra AA on his ult or whatever it was that made him even more broken than he currently is.

Friendly Ram7 votes

I mean ez and gp are the only people with ranged autos that are also spells, might that be the problem?

flibitydoo2 votes

wait I think I have an idea for klepto now

a really dumb idea with a really dumb champion Yasuo

AirKingNeo5 votes

Runic Echoes? Ezreal can't use that. You mean Runeglaive.

invisiblecat15 votes

You can't have a long range, low cooldown, high damage skillshot that also applies on-hit effects without breaking something

Blue Moon Wolf4 votes

Don't forget poor item 3025. Was supposed to be a helpful tool for Tanks with minimal CC, but EZ decided he had to use it, so it got nerfed cause "it was interesting on him". He really does have a bad habit of breaking stuff for other champs.

Though as far as reworks go, I'd prefer him not to get put on the Rework list cause he's just going to jump to the front of the list of champs who need reworked while the other champs who have been waiting will be pushed back. Would rather they Nerf him in a way that he stops breaking stuff, buff him for compensation and leave him there till everyone else gets taken care of. He already gets a lot of attention from Riot, I don't like the idea of him getting more.

ChargeItDownMid2 votes

[deleted]

Rebonack7 votes

{quoted}

The thing about ezreal is that for as many things as he has broken, riot is at least prompt to respond.

But they always respond by smashing items instead of just reworking Ez's Q into something that doesn't bend the game over backwards.

ModCaptainMårvelous4 votes

True, but they keep having to respond.

Let's say you've got some busted plumbing. You fix it but a year later, the plumbing leaks again. The obvious response is to just figure out why your plumbing keeps breaking and fix it. Instead, (Riot's response to ezreal) you bandage the plumbing again.

Like instead of solving the problem, they just keep bandage fixing it. It fixes it, sure, but the problem just rears it's head again when you get a new toilet or sink item.

ChargeItDownMid2 votes

[deleted]

ModCaptainMårvelous9 votes

I'unno man. I don't think Lucian/corki are apt comparisons.

Take Gangplank. He's also the ranged on-hit applier but he never breaks anything to the degree Ezreal does. Like sure, Kleptomancy GP is annoying but he hasn't broken nearly as much as Ezreal has over the course of years. Predominantly because he's a melee character but that's an entire different argument of melee vs. ranged.

The other issue is that for all Ezreal's faults and how there are always problem moba characters, nobody has even taken a crack at Ezreal. Nobody said "Hey you know let's try something else with Ezreal". They're content to warp the game around him and it's quite annoying that no heed is paid to him, even if he's prime VGU material.

SpiritOfOdysseus2 votes

MOBAs aren't as "complex" as some people think, theyre actually very simple in terms of video games. All variables are known and malleable by the balance team, but if the balance team doesn't understand how the dance of micro-balancing (champions and their kits) vs macro-balance (balancing runes, items, map objectives) works than you get problems like Ezreal and Gankplank

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