SO apparently only bruisers are supposed to build Trinity force

stealthfox94·May 17, 2016·2 votes·1,158 views

Because these changes sure seem to have some people very happy but me EXTREMELY upset. Edit: Look at my lower comment, I'm upset because this ruins my Ez build path.

35 Comments

Big LincolnMay 17, 20166 votes

oh man the two non-bruisers who built a bruiser item are slightly worse with the item now

good, i'm glad bruisers are getting a break from riot's abuse

stealthfox94May 17, 20161 votes

I'm all in favor of buffing bruisers, I prefer it when they rule top lane over tanks. But would it been so hard to make another similar item that bruiser can use.

Irelia BotMay 19, 20161 votes

You have t o remember that fighters tend to have a higher base AD so you would likely have to be going for something that is more along the lines of 75% total AD to make it a Marksmen sheen item. ANd then you would likely get Trynda, Riven and Zed abusing it like crazy.

Considering balance issues can be hard.

ParoeMay 17, 20165 votes

{quoted}

Because these changes sure seem to have some people very happy but me EXTREMELY upset.

You do realize that trinity force was always meant to be a fighter item, right? Ya know, like Evelynn Fizz Gangplank Irelia Jax Jayce MasterYi Nasus Pantheon Poppy Skarner Volibear Yorick ? All champions who make very nice use of trinity force, but never got it because of the wasted stats.

Uhm... you also realize that the old trinity force was changed into an ezreal/corki item just because, right? despite it not ever being intended for them?

ModWulf HelhammerMay 17, 20161 votes

About half of those never built it or had much better item choices.

And why the hell would Fizz build TF over Lich Bane?

ParoeMay 17, 20164 votes

{quoted}

About half of those never built it or had much better item choices.

And why the hell would Fizz build TF over Lich Bane?

AD fizz is still a thing. Its still quite scary tbh.

ModWulf HelhammerMay 17, 20161 votes

Yes, I am aware it is still a thing, but bruiser Fizz isn't something Riot really wants to support

Critmaster GarenMay 18, 20164 votes

what are you gonna complain about next? that steraks isnt supposed to be a fighter item?

oh wait. adc mains actually did claim that when we asked to make it a melee item. nvm.

stealthfox94May 18, 20161 votes

good lord you people act like an item can't be designed for adc's and bruisers.

Critmaster GarenMay 18, 20164 votes

{quoted}

good lord you people act like an item can't be designed for adc's and bruisers.

no, it cant. because do you know what usually happens when adc abuse bruiser items? they become op, while brusiers are balanced while building the same items. and riot ends up nerfing the item instead of its synergy with the ranged champion.

happened to steraks, and happened to fucking iceborn gauntlet. blue ezreal with the item was a problem more than once.

we can easily look back into patch histories and pick a couple of incidents when adc abused items desiged for melee for some absolutely stupid cheese. the most recent example was item 3053 + item 3156 to become immune to magic burst. they shaved 100 health off steraks and had to change its passive to put an end to that. effectively nerfing the item for fighters and adc alike even though fighters werent actually a problem with these items.

on the other hand how many times can you recall has a bruiser abused an adc item? because i cant recall even one incident.

this is why fighters need their own set of items that adc simply dont have access to.

Irelia BotMay 19, 20162 votes

Well I was starting to abuse Phantoim Dancer on Irelia to actually fairly good effect.

That 12% reduced damage is crazy good.

But Riot is finally giving into making Trinity and Wit's end good for attack speed fighters who have been lacking attack speed items that feel worth getting.

MiraweaveMay 19, 20161 votes

You act like IBG wasn't overpowered in it's own right lol.

LadyRenlyMay 17, 20163 votes

TF was always a fighter item, the fact they changed it to appeal to marksman was a mistake, Riot is doing good with this.

IcyPepperMay 17, 20161 votes

Why are you upset.

stealthfox94May 17, 20161 votes

Because I literally and by literally I mean two days ago discovered this Ez build path that I like item 3078 item 3508 item 3031 Now it's destroyed with these changes.

IcyPepperMay 18, 20161 votes

Why.

Trinity Force got buffed.

stealthfox94May 18, 20161 votes

They took away the crit from it. That was part of what made that built work was the crazy crit damage you could get from the Q. I once took away half of a Mundo's health with one.

EndlessSorcererMay 18, 20163 votes

Ezreal's Q doesn't critically strike.

stealthfox94May 18, 20161 votes

Then how did I do so much damage?

Irelia BotMay 19, 20162 votes

Ezreal Q and Irelia Bladesurge "Q" Can not crit but apply on hit effects.

THis is why I have been actually kinda been hoping for Recurve bow with on hit damage to add more damage to Irelia's Q but the stinger changes so there is higher attack speed are basically on par for being as good in a different way.

ParoeMay 18, 20162 votes

{quoted}

They took away the crit from it. That was part of what made that built work was the crazy crit damage you could get from the Q. I once took away half of a Mundo's health with one.

uhm.. sheen bonus damage doesnt crit. And 10% is nothing - just a budget dump. Like spending a thousand dollars on strippers because you didnt use your entire budget for the year.

Reaper ReviewMay 17, 20161 votes

Gangplank and Corki probably don't like the Trinity changes (and maybe Yasuo, but the former two moreso), but it's otherwise a buff in regards to the champions who actually want to be building it. Jax and Irelia in particular, who really like AS, but suffered from the item's AS getting reduced by more than half in the Zeal change.

It's nice that those two are finally getting an item again after literally everything they've built has gotten nerfed for various reasons, though. Trinity, BotRK, and Rageblade (though the latter being nerfed was fairly deserved).

Plus, I mean, it's an item that lets you deal at least 300% Base AD physical damage on your autos every so often, moreso now with the increased CDR. Does it really need crit on top of that?

JedenVojakMay 19, 20161 votes

[{quoted}](name=Reaper Review,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=sIcklBQd,comment-id=0003,timestamp=2016-05-17T22:57:11.823+0000)

Plus, I mean, it's an item that lets you deal at least 300% Base AD physical damage on your autos every so often, moreso now with the increased CDR. Does it really need crit on top of that?

Yes. It does.

It also needs AP, and more base move speed.

What it does not need is cooldown reduction.

Reaper ReviewMay 19, 20162 votes

{quoted}

Yes. It does.

It also needs AP, and more base move speed.

What it does not need is cooldown reduction.

CDR makes sense on an item that's themed around weaving spells and autos, though.

Critical strike chance is a stat that's for continuously auto-attacking (Gangplank being an exception here due to his unique mechanics).

JedenVojakMay 19, 20161 votes

[{quoted}](name=Reaper Review,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=sIcklBQd,comment-id=000300000000,timestamp=2016-05-19T01:10:52.843+0000)

CDR makes sense on an item that's themed around weaving spells and autos, though.

Critical strike chance is a stat that's for continuously auto-attacking (Gangplank being an exception here due to his unique mechanics).

The item gives attack speed, and certainly you must admit that even bruisers rely on auto attacks. Bruisers need crit too.

Reaper ReviewMay 19, 20161 votes

{quoted}

The item gives attack speed, and certainly you must admit that even bruisers rely on auto attacks. Bruisers need crit too.

If bruisers needed crit, they'd build more than just 10% (the 10% the pre-update Triforce had, because bruisers don't build the current iteration of it).

The way Zeal is now, there's no way to keep it as a Trinity component item while still letting Trinity give a meaningful amount of AS. Zeal's new design is actually reasonable for the class that builds it reliably, though, so reverting it would be a step backwards.

Short of giving Trinity 10% crit chance from nothing, there's no good way to make it have both crit chance and AS anymore.

JedenVojakMay 19, 20161 votes

[{quoted}](name=Reaper Review,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=sIcklBQd,comment-id=00030000000000000000,timestamp=2016-05-19T01:51:07.434+0000)

If bruisers needed crit, they'd build more than just 10% (the 10% the pre-update Triforce had, because bruisers don't build the current iteration of it).

Bruisers have particular stat needs though - that is offenses and defenses. Most crit items in the game do not have defensive stats, but every crit item in the game that has existed that had defenses was commonly used by bruisers as far as I know. Trinity Force, Atma's Impaler, Madred's Bloodrazor were all items that bruisers employed.

The way Zeal is now, there's no way to keep it as a Trinity component item while still letting Trinity give a meaningful amount of AS. Zeal's new design is actually reasonable for the class that builds it reliably, though, so reverting it would be a step backwards. Short of giving Trinity 10% crit chance from nothing, there's no good way to make it have both crit chance and AS anymore.

Malarky. Trinity force before the big item update gave 30% attack speed - it would be trivially easy for them to simply revert it to that state.

Reaper ReviewMay 19, 20161 votes

{quoted}

Malarky. Trinity force before the big item update gave 30% attack speed - it would be trivially easy for them to simply revert it to that state.

It also only gave 10% crit chance. The way critical strike chance and attack speed scale together, you can't put too large a value on both of them on an item that already gives damage. That's why the other Zeal upgrades lack AD of their own.

When you're critting every 5 attacks as opposed to every 10, 30% attack speed becomes a lot stronger.

JedenVojakMay 19, 20161 votes

[{quoted}](name=Reaper Review,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=sIcklBQd,comment-id=0003000000000000000000000000,timestamp=2016-05-19T02:16:06.392+0000)

It also only gave 10% crit chance. The way critical strike chance and attack speed scale together, you can't put too large a value on both of them on an item that already gives damage. That's why the other Zeal upgrades lack AD of their own.

When you're critting every 5 attacks as opposed to every 10, 30% attack speed becomes a lot stronger.

Any crit at all > no crit.

Irelia BotMay 19, 20161 votes

I get this feeling That Irelia, Jax and Xin will all prefer the higher attack speed since it allows them a faster proc time on either on hit damage or three hit passives.

If Diana had higher base AD you might see it on her but that is not the case.

Irelia BotMay 19, 20162 votes

Irelia still got it but it has felt bad getting it.

Rageblade was only popular on Irelia because Trinity just felt that bad to get.

MotrColtMay 17, 20161 votes

I didn't see trinity force changes in the 6.10 patch notes, what am I missing?

ParoeMay 17, 20161 votes

{quoted}

I didn't see trinity force changes in the 6.10 patch notes, what am I missing?

PBE.

{quoted}

Yes, I am aware it is still a thing, but bruiser Fizz isn't something Riot really wants to support

And yet trinity force is core on AD fizz's build path. Riot also doesnt support AD azir, but internal testing has been done on azir changes which make his Q and E standalone utility when no soldiers are out.

Irelia BotMay 19, 20161 votes

http://www.surrenderat20.net/2016/05/518-pbe-update.html