sustain in lane allowed champions like 
and 
to survive laning phase too easily. warlords is the only keystone that works on minions. why is that?. can we make it against champions only. or replace it? its too generalistic for ad carries.
you aren't a god damn warlord if you're using it to pussy out of fighting in the laning phase..
Rebonack12 votesMaking the keystone work on minions was an awful idea. I thought we had already been through this with the first iteration of Fervor.
ScissorsNstuff1 votesfervor was out at the same time as warlords.
fervor is the one that caused issues, warlords was left alone.
The problem with warlords is that to sustain you must give up wave control or actually risk attacking the opponent. For the most part this is good until the person with warlords has a power spike but on the otherhand even without warlords powerspike is powerful
Rebonack8 votesfervor was out at the same time as warlords.
The original iteration of Fervor stacked up its OnHit damage on minions. So you could get max stacks THEN jump someone and just stomp them into a hole. Riot then made it so it couldn't stack on minions.
The original Warlord's was so busted that Riot completely replaced it.
fervor is the one that caused issues, warlords was left alone.
This is completely false.
The problem with warlords is that to sustain you must give up wave control or actually risk attacking the opponent. For the most part this is good until the person with warlords has a power spike but on the otherhand even without warlords powerspike is powerful
The problem with Warlords is that it is giving too much early sustain without having to attack your lane opponent. If it worked only on champions it would be fine. Grasp has the same problem, but it's tilted in the opposite direction.
ScissorsNstuff1 votesThe original iteration of Fervor stacked up its OnHit damage on minions. So you could get max stacks THEN jump someone and just stomp them into a hole. Riot then made it so it couldn't stack on minions.
The original Warlord's was so busted that Riot completely replaced it.
This is completely false.
if it was false it wouldn't heal off minions
The problem with Warlords is that it is giving too much early sustain without having to attack your lane opponent. If it worked only on champions it would be fine. Grasp has the same problem, but it's tilted in the opposite direction.
the problem with grasp is that it doesn't require any commitment unless you want a second charge.
The problem with warlords isn't really something special. In exchange for damage it gives some amount of sustain from minions. If it was just champions honestly the only ones who would be taking it are the ones who wouldn't really need it currently just so they can bully the living shit out of those who do "need" it.
NGNL Asian2 votesif it was false it wouldn't heal off minions
the problem with grasp is that it doesn't require any commitment unless you want a second charge.
The problem with warlords isn't really something special. In exchange for damage it gives some amount of sustain from minions. If it was just champions honestly the only ones who would be taking it are the ones who wouldn't really need it currently just so they can bully the living shit out of those who do "need" it.
Warlords doesn't only give sustain but also more sustain through fights, fervor is for extra dps but in the current meta it's better to STAY alive to do damage over time which is why champions like vayne benefit greatly through the crit build with this mastery because it gives u a ez way out of laning phase and you can hit late game earlier than any other adc
Ralanr1 votesIf it only worked on champions then you'd have no reason to take it over Fervor of battle unless you're Olaf. It'd be too risky for such low lifesteal (unless you're low, but then it's too risky) and increasing the lifesteal would always out trades in your favor.
Anags2 votesPretty sure fervor is better on Olaf right now anyway. It's not even a decision, fervor is just better on him especially now.
NGNL Asian1 votesThe original iteration of Fervor stacked up its OnHit damage on minions. So you could get max stacks THEN jump someone and just stomp them into a hole. Riot then made it so it couldn't stack on minions.
The original Warlord's was so busted that Riot completely replaced it.
This is completely false.
The problem with Warlords is that it is giving too much early sustain without having to attack your lane opponent. If it worked only on champions it would be fine. Grasp has the same problem, but it's tilted in the opposite direction.
The og warlords made yasuo unkillable
Carnerox1 votes[{quoted}](name=NGNL Asian,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=sGk1q189,comment-id=0002000000000002,timestamp=2016-12-24T04:44:52.505+0000)
The og warlords made yasuo unkillable
LightSword1 votesI remember the patch where I was unkillable... good times.
NGNL Asian2 votesfervor was out at the same time as warlords.
fervor is the one that caused issues, warlords was left alone.
The problem with warlords is that to sustain you must give up wave control or actually risk attacking the opponent. For the most part this is good until the person with warlords has a power spike but on the otherhand even without warlords powerspike is powerful
left alone? Df they changed it what do you mean, it was a crit mastery at first. Don't say something with making sure it's right
FantasySniper1 votesIt was supposed to make it viable on junglers, I think, but obviously that didn't work out too well because ADC junglers weren't meta ever since they nerfed their itemization into the ground.
NoSkillWrecking8 votesWhy it's not a Champion only thing like say EVERY OTHER KEYSTONE is beyond me.
Seriously what was going through Riot's head when they decided: "Ok gang let's make it so every Keystone in the game only effects Champions EXCEPT the free lifesteal that scales with low health, I'm sure that won't be a problem on anyone..."
Hayaishi24 votesWhy it's not a Champion only thing like say EVERY OTHER KEYSTONE is beyond me.
Seriously what was going through Riot's head when they decided: "Ok gang let's make it so every Keystone in the game only effects Champions EXCEPT the free lifesteal that scales with low health, I'm sure that won't be a problem on anyone..."
because it'd be crap.
Profirix1 votesIn its current iteration it would be very bad, yes. It would need a rework. Honestly, free lifesteal shouldn't exist.
Anags2 votesIf it was only champions it would just not be used.
Honestly I feel like the mastery is fine.
Danjeng8 votesYe that fat whale is fucking OP. WTF is that base HP? My Charizard was 5 levels ahead but hardly did any damage at all. No counterplay. Gaem Fraek pls nerf.
Dracocrash3 votesWhat no! Theres nothing more fun than punishing my enemy for bad trades and then watching it heal back up on minions!
/s
ScissorsNstuff2 voteswarlords is countered by simple aggression, just like every other type of sustain earlygame
MunchCrunchLunch12 votesits the other way around you dip.
ScissorsNstuff2 votesno, sustain does not counter aggression. Sustain counters people who are too puss for serious agro.
The weakness of warlords is that it provides no damage and those that take advantage of damage abilities like fervor or smite should take an aggressive approach. The real issue here is that you don't know if they are taking warlords until the game starts which is kindof a big deal.
NGNL Asian2 votesno, sustain does not counter aggression. Sustain counters people who are too puss for serious agro.
The weakness of warlords is that it provides no damage and those that take advantage of damage abilities like fervor or smite should take an aggressive approach. The real issue here is that you don't know if they are taking warlords until the game starts which is kindof a big deal.
You're not gonna get oneshotted during trades...
Carnerox2 votes[{quoted}](name=NGNL Asian,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=sGk1q189,comment-id=0000000000000000,timestamp=2016-12-24T04:42:33.679+0000)
You're not gonna get oneshotted during trades...
NGNL Asian1 votes[{quoted}](name=TSM DonaldJTrump,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=sGk1q189,comment-id=00000000000000000000,timestamp=2016-12-24T08:09:11.007+0000)
shhhh
46311 votesSustain counters poke.
NGNL Asian2 voteswarlords is countered by simple aggression, just like every other type of sustain earlygame
yeah but having something like vayne on it not only gives her the ability to live threw laning phase BUT ALSO reward her with more outplay potential
ZT Xperimentor2 votesHell I've seen bard & yasou use it to ignore the need for potions!
Carnerox1 votes[{quoted}](name=ZT Xperimentor,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=sGk1q189,comment-id=0001,timestamp=2016-12-23T15:09:02.573+0000)
Hell I've seen bard & yasou use it to ignore the need for potions!
If you take warlords on Bard uninstall pls
Orangesilk2 votesBut noo, 
can't be allowed to be a strong champion because sustain is toxic in league of legends when it's a part of a kit instead of a freebie on a hyperscaling champion.
Profirix1 votesI miss chogath. He was a fun champion to play but hes just so damn unreliable in this league of mobility
Knight Sky1 votesThat last sentence though lol no one can argue that
Athenes Lulu1 votesThen your support can't shield/heal you and you're up against Zyra hehe xd
omg botlane goes 0/30 its so shite to play :(((((((((((((
Iźuku Midoriya1 votesive seen it where two people were dueling, one with warlords and one with fervor and the person with warlords won
Faie1 votesThat duel had nothing to do with keystones. Fervor is better in every single way for dueling.
PermabannedGaren1 votessustain in lane allowed champions like
you aren't a god damn warlord if you're using it to pussy out of fighting in the laning phase..
It was barely used at all before the fervor nerfs.
Was it too good then as well?
MunchCrunchLunch2 votesit wasn't used because these champions were rarely played and lane bullies that used fervor were meta.
dominusx3 votesno fervor was just more stupid.
Lovelle1 votesOr they could just buff Grasp to work on minions as well. Sustain for everyone.
SpecterVonBaren1 votesIt has the same issue that SoA had, it's just a stat stick. Why go for all the other conditional stuff when you can just take a straight stat stick that's always on?
Profirix1 votesI agree that warlords makes a normal adc lane that is supposed to be risky far too safe. Unless you get caught and bursted down, you will heal completely to full. It makes trading and poking useless. It either needs to not work on minions or only heal up to a certain amount of health, possibly based on missing health so you get diminishing returns. I know the current mechanic is based on missing health but it provides far too much lifesteal near full health.