Boards›Gameplay

RIOT! It's not too "early" to judge Mordekaiser's state

Malicious Metal··47 votes·3,202 views

(Okay, sorry if this will sound a bit rude/angry. You've been warned!)

Every time we ask you on your stance on Morde, especially his Solo laning you either completely ignore it or give us the same answer "It's too early to...". Let me tell you why that's BS; Recent win rates conclude that there's a stark difference between Solo and Duo lane Mordekaiser; His solo laning has been royally screwed, hovering around 40% even though you assured us he'd still be able to handle the solo lane properly. So does that mean the new Mordekaiser's too weak? Hell no! His duo lane win ratio's currently rising every passing day, having already reached 58%, suggesting that he's grossly overpowered. Now, you're clearly not looking at individual win rates since his overall win ratio's being about 47% currently, making you believe he's fine, maybe even on the weaker side. But that's not the case! He's currently dominating bot while having his shiny metal ass handled to him in top/mid.

But no, you're adamant on waiting it out until someone picks him in the LCS and you'll be forced to nerf the shit out of him, making his solo experience even more painful. Now, we all know Morde takes great pleasure out of the suffering he inflicts on others and even himself but on a gameplay standpoint you may want to shift some power from the duo lane toward his solo capabilities.

A step in the right direction would be giving him access to his W in solo lanes, since it won't affect his duo lane AT ALL and try to tweak his movement speed a bit.

//Rant//

36 Comments

WiegrafOfValor19 votes

Need proof?

Source: http://champion.gg/ when? NOW!

Malicious Metal3 votes

{quoted}

Need proof?

Source: http://champion.gg/ when? NOW!

Funny how they Hotfixed Fiora mere days after her rework even though you could bring up the same argument they always use as an excuse not to talk about Morde. She's been freshly reworked and people were adapting to her new kit. But no, Morde "needs" time. Sure... Not like the 40ish win rate's proof enough >_>

TurquoiseYoshi1 votes

And now Fiora has the highest win rate among top laners.

WolfBV1 votes

Trundle is best support.

UTIDAWA1 votes

Keep in mind that even if they do feel he does need a hotfix they also want to keep his bot lane presence. So they have to find a way to make his bot lane presence stay the same while also bringing his power up on his solo lane, but that solo lane power not be as oppressive as the duo lane presence like meddler stated they had hoped to achieve.

Also, if you are using champion.gg keep in mind that those are the stats from pretty much the first few days of gameplay and not every game played since the rework release.

ChaosThief9 votes

WHO IN THE HELL THOUGHT SUPPORT MORDE WAS A GOOD IDEA?!

Rew7112 votes

Looks at W and thinks really hard.

The Fast6 votes

You mean the ability that only works when you last hit?

OyddAWqJ5r2 votes

He means the heal.

Rew7112 votes

It was suppose to be a joke/reason why people even think he can support. One of his core items is now a support item as well. I'm not saying he can, just saying why people thought he could.

Hawkefire1 votes

I have seen a couple people pick ADC despite morde calling that role. One time it was a kalista, and the poor morde basically got no farm :P

Stereo Dreamer1 votes

I see the proof Jinx is still number 1 after everything tbh

GhostOfShrimpmas2 votes

Looking at the data on the rightmost column, it appears that Lissandra's changes buffed her in mid more than Morde's changes buffed him as an ADC. Was Morde ADC a thing before now and no one knew?

OyddAWqJ5r2 votes

It was and worked the same way this one does now without the heal and the silly Q3. Just like this one it worked as an anti-adc more than an adc. This one is just an extremely oppressive anti-adc compared to that one. The new dragon ghost hurts more than dragon itself.

UTIDAWA1 votes

Well champion.gg never classified Morde as an ADC before 5.16 so he basically went from being non existent on their radar to #1 which is a pretty big jump.

Blue Moon Wolf1 votes

you forgot to circle the list in the middle about overall performance ranking mid lane.

LoLKiru4 votes

"Now, you're clearly not looking at individual win rates since his overall win ratio's being about 47% currently, making you believe he's fine, maybe even on the weaker side."

Meddler mentioned that they're aware he has vastly different winrates depending on where he's played, its also worth noting that ADC morde's playrate isn't all that high (1.54% according to champion.gg)

Gonna be honest, Morde seems like a really tricky situation that I honestly don't think can work in BOTH solo and duo lanes, I feel they'll need to end up picking one, he has to be rewarded immensely for getting in your face (given that he has no cc or mobility, and half of his skills require him to be in melee range) but clearly not so immensely that he steamrolls ANY adc he manages to reach.

Angry Monster3 votes

the reason its only 1.5 for adc morde is cause everyone with a brain is banning it.

Count Zubat4 votes

The best way to fix all of that would be to just revert whole rework thingy. Unfortunately, that will never happen :( I refuse to play new Morde, it's nothing else than just a painful experience. I can't play my favorite Pentakill Mordekaiser anymore. Playing this champ is no fun for me now.

Macnuhh3 votes

the new morde is fine. just stop ranting and learn how to play him solo lane and you'll be fine. ive beaten many solo laners with morde because i know how to bulid him with the new items.....morde scales higher on ad now so build him ad tank with titanic hydra and you'll be perfectly fine......jungle morde with devourer's is even great too....like i said if you know what you're doing everything will be fine..they dont need to change morde again hes fine.

Vhalthoria2 votes

{quoted}

the new morde is fine. just stop ranting and learn how to play him solo lane and you'll be fine. ive beaten many solo laners with morde because i know how to bulid him with the new items.....morde scales higher on ad now so build him ad tank with titanic hydra and you'll be perfectly fine......jungle morde with devourer's is even great too....like i said if you know what you're doing everything will be fine..they dont need to change morde again hes fine.

No offense bro but that only happens in bronze elo. Don't expect to run the same luck higher than Silver at least.

TheScholarlyDude2 votes

Not even bronze. He's just talking or his ass.

ModKnightsKemplar3 votes

It takes people time to learn the champ... remember when Ryze win rates tanked after his rework? Then a couple weeks later he was completely op?

terkmc4 votes

You mean after his huuuuuuge buff?

Chespin20132 votes

Upvoted I went onto some Rioters stream and told them on how sololane morde is crap now and they keep giving out the same bs on there I love duo lane morde but what cost for solo lane I love playing him in the midlane especially vs yasuo

LordBrasca2 votes

Now the question: Is mordekaiser duo really viable for his kit or maybe it's because his numbers are too high? I have the feel that if he gets nerfed for the duo lane then he will be forgotten since in my opinion a ranged adc is way more usefull than an immobile tank/mage with low range.

Still i prefer morde as solo laner and i hope that they will make him viable in that way again.

TheScholarlyDude1 votes

You need cc on your team for more to work as ADC. If your only cc is yasuo; you're gonna have a bad time.

If you have CC you burst down someone and sick the ghost on their adc (if you caught their adc it's gg).

Ulquiorra9952 votes

My propositions for change, aimed at balancing out his solo and duo landing are are:

1.) Base stats (Critical) Increase his move speed >>> THIS IS A MUST. Even the most immobile champs can just walk out of his range, leaving him with one non-ultimate ability in solo lane. NAME ME ONE OTHER CHAMPION THAT HAS ONE ABILITY IN LANE. Oh, and his win rate falls off sharply after 20 minutes. That's because he can not access most of his damage in team fights. And when he replaces your team's prime damage dealer... You see a problem here.

2.) Passive (Important) Increase the scaling and/or shield decay. His shield has ben severely nerfed: much harder to generate, smaller and decays faster.

3.) Mace of Spades (Optional). Reduce damage. Each hit of Mace of Spades echoes for 30% damage. This will accomplish two things: First, it will prevent Mordekaiser from instantly killing someone once he comes into melee range. Second, it will give him more reliability and options both in solo lane and team fights.

4.) Harvesters of Sorrow (Critical) Make him able to self cast it. Reduce its power if self-cast - make it deal 70% damage or remove the healing portion for example.

5.) Siphon of Destruction (Important) Reduce/remove AD scaling. Buff base damage. Hybrid champions in this game tend to be gruesomely OP or complete shit. And Mordekaiser, funny enough, is both - depending on which lane he goes to.

6.) Children of the Grave Unchanged.

Sniper 01 votes

Kind of have to agree on this point. With q being in the state it is in it, you kind of have to have a support with hard cc in order to utilize it properly. Atm duo mord is in a much much much stronger state than solo mord ever was. They really need to draw back on his duo power. They would also need to remove the healing effect on the w (when used on minions) if they gave it those capabilities back.

They promised that solo mord wouldn't be too hindered but yeah...

Burnt Iron King10 votes

{quoted}

Kind of have to agree on this point. With q being in the state it is in it, you kind of have to have a support with hard cc in order to utilize it properly. Atm duo mord is in a much much much stronger state than solo mord ever was. They really need to draw back on his duo power. They would also need to remove the healing effect on the w (when used on minions) if they gave it those capabilities back.

They promised that solo mord wouldn't be too hindered but yeah...

GASP Riot's been lying to us?! Who would have thought?

Seriously though, solo Morde is disgustingly weak while duo lane Morde's disgustingly overpowered, resulting in the seemingly "balanced" win rate! Riot, open your eyes and judge the win rates individually to effectively balance Morde's power both in solo and duo scenarios.

Sniper 01 votes

All of that said, I believe that duo mord could just be an issue due to the fact that it's a massive shift from the meta as we know it. If we're going to see and adjustment to his winrate as people get used to him, I think it's going to occur within the next week or so. Solo mord definitely needs some tlc though.

Meep Man1 votes

This is my opinion on what they need to do to nerf his duo lane, but buff his solo lane:

Stats

  • Base Health increased to 575 from 525
  • Base Armor reduced to 20 from 25
  • Movement Speed increased to 335 from 325
  • Base Attack Speed increased to 0.625 from 0.601

Q- Mace of Spades

  • Base Damage reduced to 4/7/10/13/16 from 4/8/12/16/20
  • AD Ratio reduced to 25% at all ranks from 25/26.3/27.5/28.8/30% AD
  • Health Cost increased to 20/25/30/35/40 health from 20/23/26/29/32 health
  • Cool Down reduced to 8/7/6/5/4 seconds from 10/8.5/7/5.5/4 seconds

W- Harvester of Sorrow

  • If there are no available targets, Mordekaiser now instead steals 50/70/90/110/130 (+30% AP) health from enemies around himself. Using it in this way reduces the cool down by 2 seconds

E- Siphon of Destruction

  • Health Cost reduced to 20/25/30/35/40 health from 24/36/48/60/72 health

R- Children of the Grave

  • Mordekaiser can now also steal the soul of the Scuttle Crab. This gives him no bonus stats and does not disable Children of the Grave or kill any currently alive ghosts
  • Scuttle Crab ghosts will follow closely beside Mordekaiser and can count as a target for Harvester of Sorrow. Scuttle Crab ghost ignores unit collision

Stats Increasing Mordekaiser's base health and decreasing his armor increases his overall tankiness, but makes him more vulnerable to physical poke, but will help in the mixed damage Top Lane world. The Movement Speed increase will help both lanes, but mainly Top Lane since Bottom Lane his Support usually closes the distance for him. The base attack speed increase, once again, will help Mordekaiser get his Qs off quicker early since most of the time his Support has them locked down for torture anyways.

Mace of Spades Decreasing the base damage and AD Ratio, increasing the health cost, while decreasing the cool down early game will help Solo Lane Mordekaiser be more healthy with the boosted movement speed as well as allow him to trade more often in the aggressive Top Lane world.

Harvester of Sorrow This change is obviously allowing Mordekaiser to use his W in a solo lane for limited use of sustain and small damage. Still more powerful with a second target of course.

Siphon of Destruction Siphon of Destruction health cost reduction helps both Mordekaiser lanes by making his poke less costly. Mainly helps Top Lane since health is much more valuable in Top Lane since he will be using his E more since the enemy will be in range more.

Children of the Grave Now Mordekaiser can curse Scuttle Crab. If it dies within 10 seconds, like dragon, crab ghost. The only purpose it serves is a target for his W so in a solo lane he can get the full W for a limited time. Plus, SPOOKY SCUTTLE!

Vhalthoria1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Inept Maverick,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=s9cv2pVy,comment-id=0008,timestamp=2015-08-25T01:14:33.175+0000)

This is my opinion on what they need to do to nerf his duo lane, but buff his solo lane:

  • Base Health increased to 575 from 525
  • Base Armor reduced to 20 from 25
  • Movement Speed increased to 335 from 325
  • Base Attack Speed increased to 0.625 from 0.601
  • Base Damage reduced to 4/7/10/13/16 from 4/8/12/16/20
  • AD Ratio reduced to 25% at all ranks from 25/26.3/27.5/28.8/30% AD
  • Health Cost increased to 20/25/30/35/40 health from 20/23/26/29/32 health
  • Cool Down reduced to 8/7/6/5/4 seconds from 10/8.5/7/5.5/4 seconds
  • If there are no available targets, Mordekaiser now instead steals 50/70/90/110/130 (+30% AP) health from enemies around himself. Using it in this way reduces the cool down by 2 seconds
  • Health Cost reduced to 20/25/30/35/40 health from 24/36/48/60/72 health
  • Mordekaiser can now also steal the soul of the Scuttle Crab. This gives him no bonus stats and does not disable Children of the Grave or kill any currently alive ghosts
  • Scuttle Crab ghosts will follow closely beside Mordekaiser and can count as a target for Harvester of Sorrow. Scuttle Crab ghost ignores unit collision

Stats Increasing Mordekaiser's base health and decreasing his armor increases his overall tankiness, but makes him more vulnerable to physical poke, but will help in the mixed damage Top Lane world. The Movement Speed increase will help both lanes, but mainly Top Lane since Bottom Lane his Support usually closes the distance for him. The base attack speed increase, once again, will help Mordekaiser get his Qs off quicker early since most of the time his Support has them locked down for torture anyways.

Mace of Spades Decreasing the base damage and AD Ratio, increasing the health cost, while decreasing the cool down early game will help Solo Lane Mordekaiser be more healthy with the boosted movement speed as well as allow him to trade more often in the aggressive Top Lane world.

Harvester of Sorrow This change is obviously allowing Mordekaiser to use his W in a solo lane for limited use of sustain and small damage. Still more powerful with a second target of course.

Siphon of Destruction Siphon of Destruction health cost reduction helps both Mordekaiser lanes by making his poke less costly. Mainly helps Top Lane since health is much more valuable in Top Lane since he will be using his E more since the enemy will be in range more.

Children of the Grave Now Mordekaiser can curse Scuttle Crab. If it dies within 10 seconds, like dragon, crab ghost. The only purpose it serves is a target for his W so in a solo lane he can get the full W for a limited time. Plus, SPOOKY SCUTTLE!

Just no.

TheScholarlyDude1 votes

He's strong as an ADC with an aggro/harass support. I mean you're team could have 2 afk and you'll still be a pain.

junglerboy161 votes

Simple fix that makes morde at least quasi-viable in a solo lane while also not buffing his duo lane would be to allow him to cast W on himself but not have access to the reactivation effect (the burst of damage and heal). That gives him at least some combat viability in a solo lane. the alternative is that he can only use the heal+burst portion while along, meaning it deals a teeny amount of damage and heals him for a small amount.

BruisingEmu1 votes

It's too early to judge his power in bot-lane because people are still adjusting on how to play against (and with) it. They know Morde is weak solo but they're going to have to adjust it in a way that won't make him overbearing in bot-lane. If they just adjust him now to make him fit solo it's very possible they'll make his laning phase in bot too strong.

More from Gameplay

3 Refunds per season, upvote if you want 3 refunds per season.
Gameplay764 comments
7,167
votes
3 Refunds per season, upvote if you want 3 refunds per season.
Gameplay156 comments
3,510
votes
UPVOTE FOR URF
Gameplay606 comments
2,440
votes
Yes plz.
Gameplay456 comments
1,721
votes
3 Refunds per season, up vote if you want 3 refunds per season.
Gameplay114 comments
1,716
votes
When is ANYONE at riot going to address the awful new player experience?
Gameplay634 comments
1,383
votes

More by Malicious Metal

The one buff Karthus NEEDS
Gameplay126 comments
464
votes
Viktor's Patch 6.9 entry shows that whoever worked on Vik has no idea who he truly is >_>
Gameplay224 comments
414
votes
I have achieved my final form!
Memes & Games62 comments
320
votes
There's actually an ingenious way to solve the whole FQC and Ap CDR crisis
Gameplay223 comments
280
votes
A champion should NEVER be made more clunky/less satisfying to play (Regarding Viktor's PBE changes)
Gameplay140 comments
279
votes
Malphite will be the best Camille counter
Memes & Games60 comments
257
votes