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When CC is too decisive (Morgana)

JhomasTefferson·Oct 30, 2016·2 votes·1,885 views

A while back, I believe in the mage update, fiddle's fear was nerfed. It may have even been before then. What I don't understand is, if fiddle can't have a 3 second fear, why would morg be able to have a 3.5 second root?

also, morg's spell shield creates some issues. Say youre a ad champ that has a cc mechanic you rely on - like panth, vi, jax or xin xhao(I know the last two, not so much, cuz they have the damage to not need their cc) how do you play around her shield? Also, Say your a cc based tank, like thresh or nautilus. What do you do against her shield? In the 5 seconds that it lasts - if your team doesn't have a reliable way to break the shield - the person she shielded, usually a snowballing riven or adc(draven) or something, wins the fight and you cant do anything to stop them.

also on morg, I think there's an issue with her passive. Since spellvamp is kinda out of the game, I kinda feel like her passive should be changed. Idk to what, but something else, or buffed to be more impactful.

So in short, nerf her root, find some way to make her spellshield not supercuck, and buff or rework her passive.

75 Comments

PrimaquariusOct 30, 20168 votes

"Spell shield creates issues" "Nerf her root" "Rework her passive"

https://media4.giphy.com/media/3o7TKrdnhADppfOC9W/200w.gif#20

GULAG 4 UOct 30, 20163 votes

"Fuck logic, nurf morg"

JhomasTeffersonOct 30, 20162 votes

Im not even asking for overall nerfs. add a fucklode of damage if you want, make her stronger, just change the root and shield.

oSEXYPLATYPUSoOct 31, 20162 votes

then you delete morgana that is her identity as a champ she is a control mage with cc ... her damage dont scale very well

she is immobile and has long cds and her root is a skill shot that is blocked by minions

JhomasTeffersonOct 31, 20161 votes

Ok, I can agree with you on the q being able to be outplayed.

but what about the spellshield?

oSEXYPLATYPUSoOct 31, 20162 votes

she has to use it on her or an ally it blocks magic damage and cc not ad damage...

target the person she dont use it on?

and it has a 23 second cooldown

that is one of the longest cds in the game and it usually what she maxes last

JhomasTeffersonOct 31, 20161 votes

You didn't read the post. I was talking about a situation where there is a snowballing champ like riven or yi that she uses it on. We cant target someone else, because we will be killed in that time, and we cant run and wait for it to run out, because trying to run from them will just get us killed and we can't peel them away due to spellshield and their mobility.

Edit: im willing to learn how to play around the spellshield if there is a way to in this situation(which happens often in bronze cuz my teammates usually feed the one person on the enemy team that absolutely cant be), but rn I cant see a way to.

oSEXYPLATYPUSoOct 31, 20161 votes

lol focus the champ she dont use it on?

how hard is that?

and spell shield dont block any damage that yi or riven wants to do... they do ad damage spell shield blocks CC and magic damage

plz explain to me how that negates yi or riven

learn the champ

JhomasTeffersonOct 31, 20161 votes

[deleted]

oSEXYPLATYPUSoOct 31, 20162 votes

JUST FOCUS THE CHAMP SHE DONT USE IT ON

ALSO IF THEY HAVE SPELL SHIELD USE AD DAMAGE ON THEM... IT DONT BLOCK AD DAMAGE

ARE YOU FUCKING IGNORANT

its has a 23 second cd at lvl 1

and at max rank which would be lvl 18 (max it last ) and with 40 % cdr 15 seconds * 40% makes it a 9 second cool down...

9 there is a big window to do stuff when its on cool down ... and she can only use it on one ally if not her self

WuziboOct 31, 20161 votes

alt account, because apparently that comment can get me suspended but the same fucking comment doesn't get you suspended #ritologic

How much do I have to spell this out to you?

My team= panth(me) zed Naut Thresh and Vayne Enemy Team = Riven, morg and 3 others.

4 people on my team are grouped, if I don't group with them they'll die because im the only one doing well and theyre bronze idiots who will fight 5v4. riven starts running at us, and right as she engages on us morg spellshields her... If we run, riven will catch us, and we cant cc her away cuz of spellshield. If we fight, riven will blow us up, and we cant cc her to stop her, when the only answer is cc because as long as she is attacking she will outsustain our damage.

oSEXYPLATYPUSoOct 31, 20162 votes

so you are telling me the 5 of you cant fight and kill riven ?

WuziboOct 31, 20161 votes

well, naut and thresh are essentially useless as theyre taken for their cc, so the three of us. If she stuns vayne or zed they die, so one of them is probably who overextended and got engaged on. So two of us.

oSEXYPLATYPUSoOct 31, 20161 votes

you can still damage her... vayne and zed are mobile shouldnt get caught

and it only last 5 seconds

oSEXYPLATYPUSoOct 31, 20161 votes

what game was this in your history ? i wanna see

oSEXYPLATYPUSoOct 31, 20161 votes

so maybe its more of being low level , low skill, knowledge then an issue with morg?

WuziboOct 31, 20161 votes

If you mean an issue with my team being low level low skill, yes.

it be lìke thatOct 31, 20161 votes

ahem cough cough mrrrrrgrrrlll

GIT GUD

wait it out, or pop it lmao. you are complaining about something perfectly balanced, hence your downvotes.

JefftiffyOct 31, 20161 votes

{quoted}

"Spell shield creates issues" "Nerf her root" "Rework her passive"

https://media4.giphy.com/media/3o7TKrdnhADppfOC9W/200w.gif#20

Actually the combination of them all do. Her spell shield counters AD more than AP. Her Q does most of her damage and is a root as well as guarantees her ult. Top it off with her passive and E for sustain and you have a pretty damn toxic kit.

Her kit is seriously in need of a partial rework. The biggest thing being changing her Q and her passive. Her Q needs to be made shorter duration and lower damage (ratio should drop from 1.0 to .6) but increased speed, but it applies grounded to targets hit stopping them in place. Her passive should be reworked to focus on CC. Her niche is a CC machine with utility. Something like, enemies CC'd by Morgana's abilities take 15% increased damage from morgana and 7.5% from her allies.

I would also look at changing her spell shield to only preventing CC applied by magic damage, but increase the shield to compensate.

The only thing that keeps her in check right now is the speed of her Q. It leaves her kit in a permanent state of feast or famine. And even then she has her pool and passive to help relieve the famine.

Just because you can meme doesn't mean you are right. In fact most of the time it proves you ignorant and immature in a discussion.

oSEXYPLATYPUSoOct 31, 20161 votes

how does her spell shield counter ad ?

Morgana shields the target friendly champion or herself for up to 5 seconds, absorbing magic damage and rendering her target immune to all crowd control while the shield holds.

it does nothing vs ad

JefftiffyOct 31, 20162 votes

[{quoted}](name=MrFawknSunshine ,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=s7AMaiXG,comment-id=000500010000,timestamp=2016-10-31T00:19:34.930+0000)

how does her spell shield counter ad ?

Morgana shields the target friendly champion or herself for up to 5 seconds, absorbing magic damage and rendering her target immune to all crowd control while the shield holds.

it does nothing vs ad

Let me list all the champs with CC tied to AD and think about how it counters them. Darius Talon Aatrox Draven Garen Gangplank Gnar Graves Jayce Jhin Jinx LeeSin Olaf Kled Kindred Khazix Riven Vayne XinZhao Yasuo Udyr Urgot Sion Poppy Pantheon RekSai Rengar Nasus .

They all have almost no way to remove her spell shield to actually apply their CC. So tell me how it doesn't counter AD. I want to hear how it only stops the CC is the only reason. Sure she still takes damage. But the CC being soaked is more important. Let's also not forget she can give it to her allies to save them from them as well.

If you disagree with me. Rot in bronze. You don't have the decision making to raise up or analyze any kind of high elo play. The CC immunity is by far the most important part of the ability. And it is infinite as long as you don't have the magic damage to proc it.

oSEXYPLATYPUSoOct 31, 20162 votes

you just damage her.. it dont stop ad damage so the shield dont protect her from AD DAMAGE

JefftiffyOct 31, 20162 votes

[{quoted}](name=MrFawknSunshine ,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=s7AMaiXG,comment-id=00050001000000000000,timestamp=2016-10-31T00:30:06.023+0000)

you just damage her.. it dont stop ad damage so the shield dont protect her from AD DAMAGE

You seriously under value CC. Do you understand that CC is the biggest part of most kits. Its what defines what you can and cannot do. If you cannot CC someone but they can just sit on you you are essentially fucked.

oSEXYPLATYPUSoOct 31, 20162 votes

lol she is a squishy mage who is support 95% of the time

yea use your cc on her go ahead

JefftiffyOct 31, 20161 votes

[{quoted}](name=MrFawknSunshine ,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=s7AMaiXG,comment-id=0005000100000000000000000000,timestamp=2016-10-31T00:44:22.759+0000)

lol she is a squishy mage who is support 95% of the time

yea use your cc on her go ahead

item 3027 item 3157 item 3001 item 3116 . Squishy as fuck apparently.

oSEXYPLATYPUSoOct 31, 20162 votes

what support builds all 4 of those ?

JefftiffyOct 31, 20161 votes

[{quoted}](name=MrFawknSunshine ,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=s7AMaiXG,comment-id=000500010000000000000000000000000000,timestamp=2016-10-31T00:47:33.447+0000)

what support builds all 4 of those ?

Actually most mage supports do. Even so all it takes is item 3027 item 3116 to become beefy and quite a few supports do build both. And her core item is item 3157 .

oSEXYPLATYPUSoOct 31, 20162 votes

lol she isnt a damage support she is a cc support...

if she builds all 4 of those then she has to have TONS of gold income

cuz 2700 + 3200 + 2900 +2750 = 11550 gold not including cost of pinks, boots, sightstone or gold income item and with all 4 of those you cant get both sightstone and gold income item due to lack of item slots so you hare subjected to item 2301 for 2250 and then boots 300 for basic and 900 for item 3158 so 14,700 gold as a support and you have no items to actually help the team like

item 3105 item 3050 item 3512 item 3504 etc

PrimaquariusOct 31, 20161 votes

Morgana is only an ideal support because of Q and E, but she is actually a mid laner. Ive won more than one game taking her mid

oSEXYPLATYPUSoOct 31, 20161 votes

right now she is a counter pick mid at best... she has crap for early game damage and other mids just out do her in most ways...

so she is ideally a cc support mage who is good for counter engage and heavy cc comps

http://na.op.gg/champion/morgana/statistics/support

she is picked support 78% of games and is the 8th most picked support ... has a slightly better win rate mid but with only being picked mid 3% of the time (21stof all mids ) win rate for support 50.29% mid is 51.52%

PrimaquariusOct 31, 20161 votes

Morgana isn't really about trades pre-6, just focus on ranking Ws to melt away minions and push the lane.

Its pretty funny that despite not being a damage carry until late game, I am constantly invaded by at least 1 other champion. That must say something about Morgana's indirect power

oSEXYPLATYPUSoOct 31, 20161 votes

id say more so of her weakness... skin shot cc , immobile

oSEXYPLATYPUSoOct 31, 20161 votes

lets use an example Garen vs Morgana why would morg use her spell shield on his "cc' aka his silence his Q

WuziboOct 31, 20161 votes

This is exactly my issue. She spellshields someone and then I cant cc them. Every other spellshield blocks one ability. This one blocks all of them. If it were changed to block only the first ability and then given a bigger shield as compensation, that would be fine imo

The Sword SaintOct 31, 20162 votes

{quoted}

This is exactly my issue. She spellshields someone and then I cant cc them. Every other spellshield blocks one ability. This one blocks all of them. If it were changed to block only the first ability and then given a bigger shield as compensation, that would be fine imo

'How do I deal with an enemy team who drafts a better team than my team does, who wins lane and snowballs on us, and then forces engagements on us that we can't stop because we don't have the ward coverage or ability to fall back and rengage when the black shield is down or otherwise choose when and where to fight so that it works in our favor?'

This is the question you are asking. The answer is you don't. You lose. If you lose lanes, let someone snowball, fall behind, or otherwise are put into a bad position going into the midgame then you either have the macro coordination, team composition, and strategy to hold the enemy team off until you can recover in the lategame... then you lose the game. That's how it is and how it should be.

Dominick DestineOct 31, 20166 votes

{quoted}

why would morg be able to have a 3.5 second root?

Let's assume you are not trolling and respond; 1- Morgana's Q is a snare, not a root. A root would be Amumu ultimate. 2- It's not 3.5 seconds, it's 3 seconds at max level. There is a very big difference between these two concepts. 3- It's one of the slowest, most predictable skillshots in the game with ample cast-time to boot. (Ex: Q has shorter cast-time animation and travels significantly faster)

It's not complicated.

The Sword SaintOct 31, 20161 votes

[{quoted}](name=Dominick Destine,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=s7AMaiXG,comment-id=000c,timestamp=2016-10-31T03:55:55.301+0000)

Let's assume you are not trolling and respond; 1- Morgana's Q is a snare, not a root. A root would be ultimate. 2- It's not 3.5 seconds, it's 3 seconds at max level. There is a very big difference between these two concepts. 3- It's one of the slowest, most predictable skillshots in the game with ample cast-time to boot. (Ex: Q has shorter cast-time animation and travels significantly faster)

It's not complicated.

Also is blocked by minions, also has a large hitbox so it's difficult to hit the desired target amoungst a group, also has a long cooldown, also does not stop champions mid dash and just snares them at the end of the dash (with some of the time on the snare wasted too), etc.

But yeah, for some reason people continue to say 'but why is it allowed to have a longer duration than a point and click hard cc' - I guess the implication here is 'I can't dodge for shit so point and click and slow telegraphed skillshot are the same thing to me'.

EndlessSorcererOct 31, 20163 votes

IIRC, Snare and Root are equivalent; they are just two different names for the same type of CC.

Amumu's ultimate is an Entangle (Snare + prevents basic attacks).

Dominick DestineOct 31, 20161 votes

{quoted}

IIRC, Snare and Root are equivalent

Wiki says the above quoted is correct.

My mistake. I withdraw point #1.

ToasteyOct 30, 20165 votes

if u havent picked any mgc dmg to break the shield, u supercucked urself

morg pick has nothing to do with it

JhomasTeffersonOct 30, 20161 votes

So I should suffer because no one else on my team picked magic damage?

ToasteyOct 30, 20164 votes

yes

draft well or suffer that's how picking works

JhomasTeffersonOct 31, 20161 votes

So basically you just confirmed elo hell.

Due to factors outside of my control, ie shitty teammates who create a bad comp, I lose games and therefore elo.

ToasteyOct 31, 20161 votes

well no not necessarily

i mean youre part of the 5 ppl playing on ur team. it's not like youre a team owner just biting ur fingernails backstage hoping your team plays well so you can gain elo.

if you SEE morg, and u dont pick mgc dmg, youre part of the problem. ever heard of the bystander effect? "oh someone else will pick mgc dmg so i dont have to"

if you DONT see morg and pick full AD comp and she counterpicks u, then she outdrafted u. go congratulate her, she just won her team the game.

edit: jesus i just looked at your match history and all u pick is random garbage. get a better pool and youll climb 3-4 divs at least i guarantee you

JhomasTeffersonOct 31, 20161 votes

What if I don't see morg, but see other people on my team have magic damage hovered, for example, a cho top and veig mid, so as first or 2nd pick I take nocturne, then, when its time for them to pick, top changes to darius and mid changes to zed? How is that my fault?

ToasteyOct 31, 20161 votes

surely not every single game is like that

if youre good enough youll gain more than you lose by sheer definition of winrate. if your winrate is 50%+ you climb; it's just an issue of time spent. if your winrate is sub50, you dont deserve to climb anyway.

JhomasTeffersonOct 31, 20161 votes

Ok, I can agree with you on the climbing thing, but still, that one game in the situation I described, I lost due to factors outside my control through no fault of my own, is that fair?

ToasteyOct 31, 20161 votes

sure, but that doesnt prove the existence of elo hell. there will always be factors outside of your control in a team game. thats just the nature of the game and of playing with other people.

if you ever think youre having a bad loss streak, just think about this story: i once had a 13-game loss streak in ranked, and in literally every single game i was the best performer in the match by far. that sounds like a cliched exaggeration, but its not. literally most dmg to champs (as adc) out of both teams, most or second most CS, etc; was the best player by almost every applicable metric, but i lost 13 games in a row.

to paraphrase jean-luc picard, "it is possible to do everything right and still lose. that's not weakness; that is life"

BUT keeping that in mind, remember that focusing on what other people did wrong will never help you progress. even if it was a game in which you were the best player in the match, focus on what YOU did wrong. that's the only way to improve consistently.

JhomasTeffersonOct 31, 20161 votes

I had a ten game loss streak a few weeks ago(actually, it was probably longer, but this part of it pissed me off and made me lose all faith in the integrity of the ranked system). Every single one had an afk on my team, except for one, which had an int feeder. I don't believe the statistical bullshit that the afk is more likely to be on the enemy team anymore, therefore afks cant stop you climbing or hurt you climbing, because, though its statistically unlikely, I could end up with more games with an afk on my team than games with an afk on the enemy team.

edit: they afked after 3 min, either unintentionally or intentionally, so no remake

Dominick DestineOct 31, 20162 votes

{quoted}

if u havent picked any mgc dmg to break the shield, u supercucked urself

Lol'd.

+1

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