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About the PBE Darius buffs... (+ A quick question to players in general)

Ragnaveil··9 votes·5,282 views

tl;dr: The buffs are not as strong as they appear to be.

So i've been looking around, and i've been reading and listening to the people talking about the buffs to Darius on the PBE, saying their gonna make him too strong, too oppressive, a must ban, etc. As a person who one tricked darius for an amount last year and this year, I can see why you'd say that. However, I see something different about this that might shed some light or not. (The playtime is split between two accounts) Darius was designed to be a lane bully. Everyone knows that in the form of his bleed stacking mechanic and nature of his kit. His winrate is 54%. Sure, seems higher than it should be. There is a reason why they buffed his E shred and W instead of say, lower e cd or buff Q and/or R: He's more of a Triforce user now than Black Cleaver. Black Cleaver was changed to have less damage when Korean Lucian came onto the scene for the first time, and MF's going lethality. Black Cleaver is only good if you go against very tanky teams. It becomes less gold efficient against squishier teams. If they were to buff the other stuff in his kit, he'd feel a helluva lot worse to play against. Buffs to those aspects would actually give more incentive to build tankier builds because he would be guaranteed more damage on his Q and R, making him a bigger teamfight demon than is he right now. Or it would just make burst builds (building leth) a thing on him, and people would very much hate that. With these PBE buffs, he still has to build Triforce to get the huge effect of the W buff and E buff. Building anything else will make him feel less power out of the buff. He is weaker with the triforce build because instead of having a larger pool of health, he trades that off for other utility that doesn't grant tank status. This was why Gage was reworked to not be a core with Tri. EDIT- He also maxes his skills in this order- Q E R W. He wont get the full benefits of the W buff till later in the game. And as for the question, does anyone realize you can regen faster on the platform early by spamming either refillable or corrupting while in fountain? Its not much, but it shreds a bit of time off compared to not doing it.

22 Comments

Tychusfindlay9183 votes

His win rate currently is 49.5% where the fuck did you get 54% from.

This thread is a fucking joke and I even believe darius shouldn't be buffed.

Also, tri force isn't the end all be all of darius anymore after steraks change. It's still good no doubt.

And fail, building tri force over cleaver would make the W buff LESS effective because they're buffing its AD ratio and cleaver gives more AD than tri force.

And yes actually, the buffs are overboard when you look at darius's kit numbers historically. Proper solution is a powerdown of current meta champions, not buffing darius.

Ragnaveil1 votes

I'm not saying he SHOULD be buffed, i'm saying that people are going overboard and thinking these buffs will make him BROKEN, hence the tl;dr.

The 54% was a reference to other darius threads about this that use the same number. I know its 49% because I looked it up the other day when the buffs were posted on the PBE.

The W buff is gonna be effective long as you build AD, doesn't matter if Tri has less than Cleaver, they both give ad, one just gives less for a stronger on hit effect and other stats.

I honestly could find a buff to his ult, passive, and q to be the worst thing they could have done.

Tychusfindlay9181 votes

{quoted}

I'm not saying he SHOULD be buffed, i'm saying that people are going overboard and thinking these buffs will make him BROKEN, hence the tl;dr.

The 54% was a reference to other darius threads about this that use the same number. I know its 49% because I looked it up the other day when the buffs were posted on the PBE.

The W buff is gonna be effective long as you build AD, doesn't matter if Tri has less than Cleaver, they both give ad, one just gives less for a stronger on hit effect and other stats.

I honestly could find a buff to his ult, passive, and q to be the worst thing they could have done.

Actually a q buff could be the BEST thing they could have done, especially if it was unlock darius's max heal potential if he gets a 4 or 5 man Q.

That's something that would only reward the best darius players and not affect low elo darius too much.

Ragnaveil1 votes

Eh...I just thinking they are doing this just to be safe tbh.

Blåbæret3 votes

Darius shouldn't be buffed. You are not allowed to play the game vs this champ while in lane. He auto wins all melee matchups. He'll go 0/5 and he'll still solo kill you.

Naymliss2 votes

Uhhhm.... No?

When I played top, I always dumpstered him on- old aatrox, new irelia, riven, fiora, jax, camille, and ryze.

Some champions, like fiora or irelia can flat out always beat him in 1v1s if played properly and set up properly. Dodge q. Bait out e. All in after he uses key cool downs. You have so many options to outplay him mechanically.

Hell, if you're not comfortable with going 1v1 and relying on mechanics, just play around your power spikes and let the wave shove into you until you reach them(unless you're someone who can punish people who don't try to counter pushes, in that case you can kill him with your minion advantage). For example, I was never comfortable with riven, so I played lane passively until my level 6 spike where I all inned him and killed him if he stepped out of position.

Instead of complaining, learn how to play around him and around your champ as well as learning wave management and planning ahead. That's what top lane is all about.

If you're getting solo killed by a 0/5 Darius as a top laner, you have many more issues than riots balance team. The only time I died to a Darius who was behind was when he was 0/2, and I all inned him without my ult or any summoners up as well as just misplaying the fight and playing on full tilt. Point is, if you die to a Darius who is behind, you messed up big time, probably before the fight even started.

DarukongSr2 votes

I think they could have given Darius a debuff instead. Like an AS slow on crippling strike, or reduce enemy damage like 1 or 2% per bloodstacks, doubling after 2 seconds of reaching 5 stacks. But these buffs are nothing to whiff at.

Ragnaveil5 votes

Well adding a debuff like that would give him more ways to counter his own counters. The goal is to not buff that aspect.

Alzon5 votes

Yes, and there are zero champions in the game that have kit elements that counter their counters. Absolutely unheard of.

Ragnaveil2 votes

Im not saying that there are any that have no kit elements that counter their counters, im just saying is that he doesn't need stuff like that because he would end up very hard to balance with stuff like a damage debuff or AS slow that would double after reaching 5 stacks or something. Think about the fact we have two bruiser items coming in possibly next season, and one grants damage reduction from bonus AD, the other grants ad based on health.

DarukongSr1 votes

{quoted}

Yes, and there are zero champions in the game that have kit elements that counter their counters. Absolutely unheard of.

Lmao, aka, Jax, fiora, yasuo, jhin, kassadin, mundo, literally any champions with an untargetability ability, Evelyn...the list goes on xD

DarukongSr1 votes

{quoted}

Well adding a debuff like that would give him more ways to counter his own counters. The goal is to not buff that aspect.

Maybe, except that his true counter is kiting (mobile adcs or adcs with shielding or cc supports) and mages with medium range or better (even ryze). Champs like fiora wouldn't be severely affected, and the existence of conquerors would dampen the effects of any damage reduction debuff.

Ragnaveil2 votes

Thats if the person he's going against is USING conqueror. Its starting to feel like Conqueror is the one and only true rune for bruisers to completely do something and make tanks completely oppressed as a result. The rune was fine for a while, but now i'm starting to feel like its a major issue to balance champs that are using it currently. It creates a warping effect if I had to be honest.

DarukongSr1 votes

{quoted}

Thats if the person he's going against is USING conqueror. Its starting to feel like Conqueror is the one and only true rune for bruisers to completely do something and make tanks completely oppressed as a result. The rune was fine for a while, but now i'm starting to feel like its a major issue to balance champs that are using it currently. It creates a warping effect if I had to be honest.

I agree about conquerors actually the rune is hot garbage And gives many dps/crit champs (who already have access to armor pen items and/or insane mixed damage) insane true damage. True damage that they aren't truly balanced around. For instance, champs with insane mobility and dps, with insane damage reduction or ability blocking mechanics like tryn, Yas, and Jax, should not have access to so much true damage. And it's made worse by i.e. Dar is far less oppressive as a conqueror user than they are due to less mobility, dps, and lower marginal benefit.

Ragnaveil1 votes

Hence the reason why I said we keep his W the same as it is. If conqueror gets changed to not be a true damage thing, then there might be room to add something like that. EDIT- Your Idea of damage reduction kinda gave me a good idea to do something with conqueror. Instead of it having a true damage modifier, it gives damage reduction when proced (IE like 5 or 6 percent) and the bonuses are halved on range. In return the AD is slightly lowered. That or we make it something like Fervor of Battle with some bonus effects when at max stacks or something.

DarukongSr1 votes

{quoted}

Hence the reason why I said we keep his W the same as it is. If conqueror gets changed to not be a true damage thing, then there might be room to add something like that. EDIT- Your Idea of damage reduction kinda gave me a good idea to do something with conqueror. Instead of it having a true damage modifier, it gives damage reduction when proced (IE like 5 or 6 percent) and the bonuses are halved on range. In return the AD is slightly lowered. That or we make it something like Fervor of Battle with some bonus effects when at max stacks or something.

Actually yeah that would be sweet because it would be an anti damage creep rune not just built on tanks. The damage reduction would have to probably reflect something similar to the rune that increases damage on a target in order to be relevant

Ragnaveil1 votes

Eh, it would act like what conqueror does right now, grants the effect and melee can refresh the buff.

Seiferoth1 votes

I would be fine with bringing back his cripple(attack speed slow) on ranged champions only, that way melee don't feel completely oppressed by him, and it gives the ranged people even more to worry about if they get caught by Darius.

DarukongSr1 votes

{quoted}

I would be fine with bringing back his cripple(attack speed slow) on ranged champions only, that way melee don't feel completely oppressed by him, and it gives the ranged people even more to worry about if they get caught by Darius.

That would be bearable at least. Wouldn't mind it against the vaynes, trists, and kaisais out there.

Vonyalo2 votes

I don't think he needs buffs. He is often banned in low elo because players there have difficulties playing against him. Garen was nerfed because he was too strong in low elo. Why buff Darius then?

Oakleaf Ranger2 votes

Because he is shittier than Garen right now. I hate these buffs. They don't give him any thing he needs right now. Your still just as easy to gank or melt. Any lanes he is winning he will not win significantly more and most importantly any lanes or situations he is losing decrease either.

There is no more reason to play Darius after this buff than before it. It isn't a lack of damage that is keeping players from succeeding more on Darius.

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