I'm kinda getting annoyed that Riven's being left alone yet again.

Ragnaveil·Jun 23, 2019·64 votes·15,873 views

https://u.gg/lol/champions/riven/build?rank=diamond_plus Oh hey, she's back to where she was before the nerfs. Huh. Maybe this time Riot, you actually hit her scaling so shes forced to play on completed item timings and isn't as strong. Like, there is no god that saves anyone in this meta from Riven, not even Morde's R can save anyone from her. She's the literal devil of toplane, and its about time her special treatment comes to an end. She's like a juggernaut strapped with boosters, but without being labeled as a juggernaut.

81 Comments

boricCentaur1Jun 23, 20198 votes

ummmmmmmm she is not. playrate lower, ban rate MUCH MUCH LOWER so why are you lying? Like nothing in your post makes sense you called her a juggernaut but she is not tanky or slow.

Maybe it time to stop lying.

RagnaveilJun 23, 201924 votes

{quoted}

ummmmmmmm she is not. playrate lower, ban rate MUCH MUCH LOWER so why are you lying? Like nothing in your post makes sense you called her a juggernaut but she is not tanky or slow.

Maybe it time to stop lying.

Her winrate isn't lying.

boricCentaur1Jun 23, 20196 votes

WInrate means nothing if you think it does STOP USING STATS both her banrate and playrate are lower.

Like why lie and make bs points about them?

RagnaveilJun 23, 201914 votes

{quoted}

WInrate means nothing if you think it does STOP USING STATS both her banrate and playrate are lower.

Like why lie and make bs points about them?

Whats the point of her banrate and playrate? She's exclusively played by mains, so banning it out is a crapshoot, and the playrate remains the same.

ModAcademy KaynJun 23, 201913 votes

I don't agree with the other guy's premise, but there is a point to be had about Ban-rate and playrate. Mains will naturally have a higher winrate with their champion, so if only a majority of people who play people are Riven mains, statistics will reflect that. Banrate, is also something that Riot themselves have made special mention of when it comes to their new line of what is "Overpowered"/Worthy of a nerf.

Lower banrate but higher winrate, like Janna, is an actual thing that Riot does keep in mind when choosing nerfs. A lot of the time, it means that even when facing the champion, they don't feel themselves pressured/unable to respond against said champion, which is why most bans are chosen in the first place.

Just throwing in my two cents.

RagnaveilJun 23, 20193 votes

[{quoted}](name=Academy Kayn,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=eTJhtogg,comment-id=00020000000000000000,timestamp=2019-06-23T07:42:21.076+0000)

I don't agree with the other guy's premise, but there is a point to be had about Ban-rate and playrate. Mains will naturally have a higher winrate with their champion, so if only a majority of people who play people are Riven mains, statistics will reflect that. Banrate, is also something that Riot themselves have made special mention of when it comes to their new line of what is "Overpowered"/Worthy of a nerf.

Lower banrate but higher winrate, like Janna, is an actual thing that Riot does keep in mind when choosing nerfs. A lot of the time, it means that even when facing the champion, they don't feel themselves pressured/unable to respond against said champion, which is why most bans are chosen in the first place.

Just throwing in my two cents.

Right, but my issue is Riot specifically had a thing layed out for Riven where her mains are to have at least a 55% winrate in high elo back then, and anything past that would warrant a nerf. Since then, she was obviously weak, but now shes not, yet all the sudden that doesn't apply anymore? I know they've had rough times being consistent, but this champ's balance requires consistent rules. If they are gonna start from scratch, then make it so that dia + for riven mains is 50% winrate.

J EevoJun 23, 20196 votes

Eh, considering we got information recently that they're looking into Aurelion sol who suffers this problem even more(only played by mains, low pickrate low banrate, high winrate), but is statistically less jarring with there being way less Asol mains than riven mains, and despite that them amassing a lower winrate, I'd say a nerf to Riven should be definitely looked at

ModAcademy KaynJun 23, 20192 votes

Of course, I'm just stepping in to say that Banrate and Playrate is a factor that Riot keeps in mind.

rawiazam1Jun 23, 20192 votes

this doesn't make sense.

what you're saying is if a champ has 90% winrate but low banrate and pickrate it shouldn't be addressed

ModAcademy KaynJun 23, 20193 votes

That's not at all what I'm saying at all lmao, it's within reason.

Anu3isIIJun 24, 20191 votes

If a champion would ever have a 90% Win Rate automatically lots of people would try him/her, resulting in high Pick Rate, which would lead to a high Ban Rate if the champion is actually OP.

The stats of a champion are strongly correlated since everyone tries their best to maximise their Win potential.

Besides, that isn't their point. A Riot member did post a graph on Twitter where they weighed both Win Rate and Ban Rate and showed the champions they considered over and under the line in that moment, some of them having High Win Rates, but very low Ban Rates.

Exin0Jun 23, 20192 votes

[{quoted}](name=Academy Kayn,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=eTJhtogg,comment-id=00020000000000000000,timestamp=2019-06-23T07:42:21.076+0000)

I don't agree with the other guy's premise, but there is a point to be had about Ban-rate and playrate. Mains will naturally have a higher winrate with their champion, so if only a majority of people who play people are Riven mains, statistics will reflect that. Banrate, is also something that Riot themselves have made special mention of when it comes to their new line of what is "Overpowered"/Worthy of a nerf.

Lower banrate but higher winrate, like Janna, is an actual thing that Riot does keep in mind when choosing nerfs. A lot of the time, it means that even when facing the champion, they don't feel themselves pressured/unable to respond against said champion, which is why most bans are chosen in the first place.

Just throwing in my two cents.

you are right but there is also exeption introducing tahm, karma and new morde to the top dilute and swing banrates morde is now hot garbage maybe even more broken then riven but despite lower statistics she is not weaker nor less problematic she is just hidden in shadow of new broken ones and will emerge on top again when nerff hammer fall. Also even is riot mention they care about banrates reality is different they obviously just cement menta they choose otherwise yasuo, zed an others with insane ban rates and not low winrates and high play rates will be outright deleted from game.

Haze97Jun 24, 20191 votes

So when is Yasuo getting nerfed?

boricCentaur1Jun 23, 20193 votes

You just killed your own argument by saying she is played my mains wtf why would you say that??? Playrate and banrate not going up shows she is nowhere near where she was before the nerfs.

Your only reason you have said as to why riven is strong is her statistics but I just showed her playrate and banrate have not gone up and you just give the fucking argument as to why her winrate is high so you're left with nothing.

Like again why lie you have not answered that?

God I hate when people just hate champions for no reason other then they have a high winrate reeeeee.

RagnaveilJun 23, 20193 votes

{quoted}

You just killed your own argument by saying she is played my mains wtf why would you say that??? Playrate and banrate not going up shows she is nowhere near where she was before the nerfs.

Your only reason you have said as to why riven is strong is her statistics but I just showed her playrate and banrate have not gone up and you just give the fucking argument as to why her winrate is high so you're left with nothing.

Like again why lie you have not answered that?

God I hate when people just hate champions for no reason other then they have a high winrate reeeeee.

Yet my post has a ton of upvotes. Maybe rethink what I mean by "back to where she was before the nerfs".

boricCentaur1Jun 23, 20191 votes

LOL when people bring up upvotes it shows they have no argument.

Also people don't like riven so they upvote any post about her getting nerfed it's the same with zed or yas. If I made a post about riven needed nerfs like a year ago people would of done the same.

Also I have shown she is not up to where she was.

RagnaveilJun 23, 20192 votes

{quoted}

LOL when people bring up upvotes it shows they have no argument.

Also people don't like riven so they upvote any post about her getting nerfed it's the same with zed or yas. If I made a post about riven needed nerfs like a year ago people would of done the same.

Also I have shown she is not up to where she was.

Her pick and banrate went down, so what? Her power is still the same as it was before the nerfs, and that was the bigger issue than the shield itself.

boricCentaur1Jun 23, 20191 votes

It's not the same are you trolling? Those were big nerfs as a result her playrate went down and her banrate which was around 20% went down to about 3%.

Like her damage is not that much higher then most tops and that is actually a fact like play her vs Aatrox and she gets shit on.

The problem was that she has too much safety from both conqueror and her e which both got nerfed.

WTBeGirl100EUhrJun 23, 20194 votes

I mean, her banrate peaked at around 26% and is down to 13% (not 3%). Her playrate peaked at around 13% and is down to 11%.

Riven's issue is that she gets to dictate the pace of the laning phase due to her high mobility with high uptime which results in her being incredibly difficult to stop when ahead and incredibly difficult to punish when behind. Her damage with her ultimate is absurdly high and she is able to 100-0 a lot of top laners even when they're ahead if they choose to fight her without waiting for her to use her Q.

boricCentaur1Jun 23, 20191 votes

Link me to where she has 13% ban rate since this is where I got my numbers from https://www.leagueofgraphs.com/champions/builds/riven/kr/top/diamond

KnKitsuneJun 23, 20192 votes

{quoted}

Link me to where she has 13% ban rate since this is where I got my numbers from https://www.leagueofgraphs.com/champions/builds/riven/kr/top/diamond

Riven has a flat 18% banrate in EUW, the highest out of all the regions with NA close behind with 16.9%.

Every region except VN, barely TW and TR, LAN, and KR has Riven's banrate at 10% and above.

boricCentaur1Jun 23, 20191 votes

So what? Eu and NA soloq is one of the weakest and easiest. Like anything that just proves my point that riven is not op.

Also a the average is about 10% from the 20% before the nerfs.

Riven gets beat by a lot of the top laners Aatrox,mord, irelia all can easily beat her.

KnKitsuneJun 23, 20193 votes

{quoted}

So what? Eu and NA soloq is one of the weakest and easiest. Like anything that just proves my point that riven is not op.

Also a the average is about 10% from the 20% before the nerfs.

Riven gets beat by a lot of the top laners Aatrox,mord, irelia all can easily beat her.

I don't know what that site uses in calculating average, but putting the numbers together actually puts Riven at a 11.6% average banrate while everything else remains consistent in most regions.

Also not sure where you're getting your counter matchups from, but Riven according to that very same website, overall beats Aatrox and Irelia. Even in KR, she beats Aatrox. Mordekaiser can't be taken into account yet because he was just released a week an a half ago.

PlsTouchMeGentlyJun 23, 20192 votes

Yeah, imo you kind of do need to have a decent rank in order to have a viable opinion about high skill cap champions. Otherwise, you’re really just spouting off about your experience with silver Riven players, and if they could actually play Riven well they inherently would not be silver, they’d be at least plat.

RagnaveilJun 23, 20192 votes

{quoted}

I don't know what that site uses in calculating average, but putting the numbers together actually puts Riven at a 11.6% average banrate while everything else remains consistent in most regions.

Also not sure where you're getting your counter matchups from, but Riven according to that very same website, overall beats Aatrox and Irelia. Even in KR, she beats Aatrox. Mordekaiser can't be taken into account yet because he was just released a week an a half ago.

She can beat Morde from what i've experienced and have seen. 11+ is all her.

ZeyphelJun 23, 20194 votes

Did you know that tons of idiots come to cry on this section everyday about how some ''op champion'' destroyed them? ~~They don't think that they could be worse players, just champion must be OP.~~ *Your post is not a crying post, I am just putting an example.

Your post is partially correct and partially incorrect. She is strong and as a bully, really agressive in good hands but she is not OP. There are certain rules you have to obey in a matchup against her. Most people don't really care about these rules and expect to win a 1 vs 1 against her brainlessly which results in the most obvious outcome: They get destroyed. Being unable to figure a way to win against her, ~~and actually being lazy enough to refuse to learn~~ results in the daily complaints we get everyday. This is far from being new.

This is coming from someone who doesn't play Riven and someone who has played against Riven quite a lot of times. So, this post, even though you won't acknowledge it, just shows us that there are 35 people who don't know how to deal with Riven and would prefer Riot Games to win their games for them. That's all I have to say.

RagnaveilJun 23, 20192 votes

{quoted}

Did you know that tons of idiots come to cry on this section everyday about how some ''op champion'' destroyed them? ~~They don't think that they could be worse players, just champion must be OP.~~ *Your post is not a crying post, I am just putting an example.

Your post is partially correct and partially incorrect. She is strong and as a bully, really agressive in good hands but she is not OP. There are certains rules you have to obey in a matchup against her. Most people don't really care about these rules and expect to win a 1 vs 1 against her brainlessly which results in the most obvious outcome: They get destroyed. Being unable to figure a way to win against her, ~~and actually being lazy enough to refuse to learn~~ results in the daily complaints we get everyday. This is far from being new.

This is coming from someone who don't play Riven and someone who has played against Riven quite a lot of times. So, this post, even though you won't acknowledge it, just shows us that there are 35 people who don't know how to deal with Riven and would prefer Riot Games to win their games for them. That's all I have to say.

If she had effective counters and counterpicks, I wouldn't be putting this post up to begin with.

IR3ALLY3NJOYC0CKJun 23, 20194 votes

[deleted]

Sewer SideJun 23, 20196 votes

{quoted}

while they are at it can they delete every other top laner there is??!! I hate playing top against any viable top laner. Why can't i go against a bard support instead of an actual viable top laner. smh

Tahm is cancer incarnate No wait, Karma is cancer incarnate Did I say Karma? I mean Vayne/Quinn are literally the worst to go against top lane. Wait, ranged carries? I mean Irelia is literally making the game unplayable. Irelia with sub50% WR? LMAO I should’ve said Riven makes me want to uninstall.

This is exhausting. And we haven’t even touched on Jax, Renekton, Morde, nor Fiora.

ModAcademy KaynJun 23, 20191 votes

I mean at the rate you're going, there aren't going to be any top laners at all that aren't cancer.

MimrJun 23, 20194 votes

[{quoted}](name=Academy Kayn,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=eTJhtogg,comment-id=000000000000,timestamp=2019-06-23T07:43:25.902+0000)

I mean at the rate you're going, there aren't going to be any top laners at all that aren't cancer.

It's a well-known fact that top lanes' internal balance is poop at the moment. Most of the roster hard counters half the champions in it but gets shat on by the other half. Who is meta top is mostly simply dictated by who has the least of said hard counters (in this case Tahm, Riven, Aatrox, Vlad, Mordekaiser and Urgot and I'm sure I'm forgetting a couple of names).

Moody PJun 23, 20196 votes

None of these are unreasonable statements.

The EcdysiastJun 23, 20193 votes

I'm kind of annoyed they still haven't hit the actual problem and are targeting Riven.

If they would just fix Conqueror so it doesn't allow you to stack it multiple times from abilities that hit multiple times, like it already does for abilities that apply a DoT, it would nerf it on champions who can abuse it like that while simultaneously allowing them to buff it for champions who don't.

RagnaveilJun 23, 201916 votes

[{quoted}](name=The Ecdysiast,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=eTJhtogg,comment-id=0001,timestamp=2019-06-23T01:38:06.615+0000)

I'm kind of annoyed they still haven't hit the actual problem and are targeting Riven.

If they would just fix Conqueror so it doesn't allow you to stack it multiple times from abilities that hit multiple times, like it already does for abilities that apply a DoT, it would nerf it on champions who can abuse it like that while simultaneously allowing them to buff it for champions who don't.

Shes so good right now, you dont even need conq.

IainG10Jun 24, 20191 votes

Not disagreeing, but they do also need to hit Conq...hard.

RagnaveilJun 24, 20191 votes

Issue is, you hit Conq too hard, champs like Aatrox only have Grasp to use, and that doesn't give him a good chunk of damage.

IainG10Jun 24, 20191 votes

True, there does need to be a decent option for champs like Aatrox, but Conq has more abusers than balanced users. Also, Electrocute shouldn't be too bad on him.

The Spicy CritJun 23, 20192 votes

In order to do good with Riven, u gotta spend a lot of time and u need to get used to pla.... What the fuck am i talking about, the champ is r%%%%%edly broken and deserves to be hit with a nerf hammer. She's literally my permaban every single game. Fuck her. That champ literally has EVERYTHING that you need. I mean, Kench cannot really hardcarry a game where bot went 0/7 each, he's just a meatshield past 20 minutes and gets outscaled, still is a huge problem early. But Riven will carry as soon as she gets 3-4 kills during the laning phase (which is not hard at all nowadays with her). She really needs a nerf, but not a "Movement speed 340 -> 335" kind of nerf. Her damage or cooldowns have to be nerfed. And that shield has to have a bit smaller AD ratio, it's ridiculous. She's strong early, mid and late game. And whenever i got killed by Riven i never thought "Wow, this dude has outplayed me, good job" instead i was like "What the fuck is this bullshit, why is that shield up every 3 seconds and why can't i move while being oneshot by BoxBox wannabees".

voidscalerJun 23, 20194 votes

See imo her damage is stupidly high, bit as a fight carry it should be Her issue is she has literally no cooldowns She has no downtime at all as her q cooldown with CDR is so rediculously low she literally always has it up, meaning she has no moment of weakness to exploit and can permanently be on the aggressive Of you go toe to toe with a riven in a fight, you have lost that fight. O matter what character you are, because it's 8 seconds untile your cooldowns are back, but she has hers instantly

Imo she needs the cooldwon buff she got on her q reverted, maybe even an extra 2 seconds on top of that

The Spicy CritJun 23, 20196 votes

{quoted}

See imo her damage is stupidly high, bit as a fight carry it should be Her issue is she has literally no cooldowns She has no downtime at all as her q cooldown with CDR is so rediculously low she literally always has it up, meaning she has no moment of weakness to exploit and can permanently be on the aggressive Of you go toe to toe with a riven in a fight, you have lost that fight. O matter what character you are, because it's 8 seconds untile your cooldowns are back, but she has hers instantly

Imo she needs the cooldwon buff she got on her q reverted, maybe even an extra 2 seconds on top of that

Who the hell thought that she needed a buff in the first place? That champion was never and will never be weak, she's designed to piss on everyone.

SiG DxDJun 23, 20192 votes

[deleted]

RagnaveilJun 23, 20197 votes

[{quoted}](name=SiG DxD,realm=EUNE,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=eTJhtogg,comment-id=0009,timestamp=2019-06-23T12:57:48.694+0000)

i played riven as a 0 mastery riven didnt won once shield cd was huge and i didnt do shit and low dmg

idk if she requires brain or no

She does, and thats the issue. Her mains still have a massive free pass.

SiG DxDJun 23, 20191 votes

guess so then

GlaricionJun 23, 20191 votes

Her win, pick, and ban rates are still all way down since the nerfs.

While she is still OP, the nerfs did do a decent job at removing safety nets from the champion.

RagnaveilJun 23, 20193 votes

{quoted}

Her win, pick, and ban rates are still all way down since the nerfs.

While she is still OP, the nerfs did do a decent job at removing safety nets from the champion.

For the inexperienced, sure. My issue with her in the first place was that maining her had too much power at the highest level (its medically impossible for me to main her with high reaction speeds and inputs like that).

GlaricionJun 23, 20192 votes

The difference between our data is basically just flipping the switch as to whether plat is included or not when it comes to WR | BR and PR still drop whether or not Plat is included.

Plat's still a damned fine rank. (Plat top 17%, Diamond top 4%)

Not disagreeing about her being OP (she is, and her gameplay design is fundamentally broken), just about her being "where she was before".

Feel you on the slow fingers thing. Couldn't 'beat' the famous MGS torture scene as a kid (still struggled as an adult), needed a sibling to mash X for me while playing the earliest sections of GoW, etc...