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Is anyone else convinced Riot doesnt know how to balance Toplane?

Ragnaveil·8/30/2019, 4:52:01 PM·48 votes·17,071 views

Like, let me level down with you. First, Klepto Vik starts abusing toplane and it takes several patches before he finally was put down. Next, Riven starts becoming the Omega of toplane, and was left alone for roughly 6 patches, finally being hit with a change. HOWEVER, said change did nothing but actually buff her, making her even more of an Omega than she was before. Wait another few patches, and she finally got nerfed...hopefully. Now, all the sudden, Jax and Fiora get random ass buffs knowing full well when they are good they are toxic. Trynd also got buffs in a previous patch that made him pretty nasty to deal with (not OP, just very very annoying to deal with). Combine the fact Spear still exists, and anything can practically go top, you get a cesspool of just jank and jank accessories.

EDIT: First its, "Oh, you have too much influence with TP (the only way other than having to back and walk to other lanes), nerf", now its "Oh, now you need the jungler to help unlock your influence on the map, but yours is the least impactful btw". Like, what more can we do other than try and manage waves?

Jg has been fucked like this for longer than we have, but ours is getting closer to severe problem status. Riot, its about time you start adding people from Pro or higher ranks that PLAY the game to the balance team to fix these issues before next season could spiral them hard, making it hard to come back from. Many tops in high elo i've chatted with agree with me on this, when last season not many did. Thats not good.

So heres what needs to be done:

  • Fix shit whos counterplay currently doesn't exist (Jax, Riven, Fiora, Trynd) (They are strong, but Pro favors teamfighters any day of the week hint hint)
  • Move some toplaners to other positions to shrink the massive toplane pool, and balance them around the new lane they are in (Top's pool is the largest of all roles)
  • Remove the gold or heavily lower the gold from turret plates.
  • Start giving classes and subclasses actual varying (and correct) stats (Tanks should have more base HP (could give them better armor and mr, but probably have to nerf clearspeed for tank jgs that might do too well because of it), Fighters are fine where they are, you get the point)

EDIT: And now look at what they are doing. Attempting to buff Riven just because she hit 48% winrate in plat. https://u.gg/lol/champions/riven/build/?rank=platinum Like, for real, can she just not sit in the dumpster till preseason/offseason where we can finally do work on her so her Q animation canceling doesn't just flat out autowin trades?

138 Comments

Summoner SpeII8/30/2019, 6:52:15 PM11 votes

how about giving top more control of the lane instead of it being 100% influenced by jungler by forcing junglers on red side to clear 4 camps before they can gank

Schenix8/30/2019, 7:09:04 PM10 votes

Jax's counterplay was kiting out his early E-Q, he didn't have it up often enough to stick to melee range and stack passive faster than it drops, and took good returns. He wasn't bad at all, still strong -- just not broken like he is now because of being able to shave off almost 4 seconds to his 2 seconds by cdr spikes without even having to put points in Q anymore. Maxing E second makes him start to be a carry earlier.

Fiora has counterplay as well, it's just more macro based, and therefore irritating because "objective: survive" laning is never really that much fun if you don't even outscale to be able to fight her well enough.

Riven both has counterplay and doesn't. It's up to both the players and how they perform microdecisions. Riven is just allowed a higher uptime on making or escaping plays than most other champions, and so even if you do something well, you can't keep up with her sheer amount of possibility on her to just ruin your play with how strong she still is naturally.

Trynd is toxic. Doesn't matter if strong or weak, not healthy, there is no balance for him.

A lot of top is tied to jungle unfortunately. It's easy to put the enemy top behind just by returning two or three times in the first 5 minutes, and then barely having to worry if you drop a deep ward. Which is why they're always so heavily hit with changes, they pose problems and are symbiotically linked to increasing returns.

No lane is on its own, it's a 3 lane and jungle environment you have to balance around, with various subclasses and items.

I honestly think tanks only need better itemization paths. Sunfire is crazy efficient because they just wanted people to build it, but something like Abyssal Mask or Adaptive are actually average to whatever. Adaptive does well in its niche but the stats are awful for the cost, and Abyssal is rare just because of the lack of stats you could require for the cost. Visage works out, just barely. Deadmans Plate achieves a move speed goal but for the same cost as Sunfire, it's rare to want except on champions that basically just want a movespeed item with some resistance, since Righteous Glory's stats are gimped (not too badly) in favor of the active.

A lot of tank items just lost their actual 'tankiness' (whether by nerfs to their stats, or buffs to penetration) or lost cost to effectiveness ratio in favor of niche boosting support type passives. They just need a small bump in stats, or a slight decrease in gold, and tanks are fine. Conqueror can be an offender in keeping tanks down as well, but we do need something at least semi-efficient to be able to disrupt tanks in laning.

A buff to anti-poke would be great, if it was melee only. Like a Dorans Shield that couldn't be abused by any safe mage or adc. Kassadin, Sylas, Katarina, GP, and Qiyana might love it, however the diminishing return can be worked out based on base HP or HP regen, or even that it only works out of combat/range.

Balancing is a nightmare to perform once a game gets this big.

Zed genius8/30/2019, 5:43:11 PM10 votes

Because they balance every other aspect of their game perfectly right? They literally can't balance anything

Kazekiba8/30/2019, 4:59:33 PM10 votes

Riot's design team are mostly low elo top laners, and the high elo players are more mids and support. What Riot needs to do is call or message on reddit, various well known/high elo top laners and let people who actually play the game for a living offer advice to fix big balance issues. Not 100%, just a minority of the changes, but especially when Riot can't figure out champs sometimes

CHEWYARMS8/30/2019, 6:16:11 PM10 votes

"- Start giving classes and subclasses actual varying "

I glad someone else noticed this.

Irelia lvl 18 has 85 less hps then yorick...

And since they buy very similar items they have roughly the same stats. I really feel like a champ with as much mobility, target access, and utility as Irelia probably shouldn't even come close to having the same stats as a immobile/ unreliable champ such as yorick. She even has a F***ing defensive ability in her kit to make her more tanky, but here we are... And thats only one example of the bullshit that riot ignores.

Trias0008/30/2019, 11:41:02 PM4 votes

Riot wouldn't know how to balance rock-paper-scissors

UnlimitedNinja418/31/2019, 1:11:07 AM4 votes

Jokes on you, I'm convinced they can't balance the game in general.

Hemulen Magi8/30/2019, 6:27:56 PM4 votes

If frontliners were given some lategame defensive scaling buffs that required expensive (but slot efficient) itemization, it would incentivize tanks outside of the support role and widen the gap between a solo-lane tank and a support tank. Increasing the value of a farmed/fed frontliner in lategame might be enough to push top lane ranged bullies from the meta, which would allow them to be rebalanced for other positions.

I miss seeing Heimerdinger bot lane. He's a much healthier pick there than top, and I enjoyed the variety he (and other APCs) brought to the lane when I played support during that meta. Kennen Teemo Neeko Vayne are all better fits in mid or bot than they are in top.

Quinn Could be a healthier jungler, emphasizing her falconry theme by tracking opponents through the jungle and sending Valor to scout around the map. She could also be a healthier mid or bottom laner. Top lane is actually the least healthy position for her imaginable, so sending her anywhere else would be an improvement.

I think Kayle should stay viable top but needs significant changes so that she has a more interactive laning phase, as a melee-ranged fighter, in exchange for less hyperscaling when transitioning into a pseudo-marksman... I think her overall power curve and earlygame playstyle should be closer to Irelia or Fiora.

Glamorous Rammus8/30/2019, 5:47:32 PM3 votes

Kled is a problem imo. Spam abilities with CC and amazing mobility, with a small window to try killing him before he pops Skaarl again.

JuiceBoxP8/31/2019, 12:38:57 PM2 votes

Convinced is not a strong enough word

Sire Hippington8/30/2019, 6:48:36 PM2 votes

That's implying that they know how to balance other parts of the game, and i honestly doubt that...

Darkdemon6538/30/2019, 7:06:33 PM2 votes

I think it's apathy rather than incompetence.

CL04K8/30/2019, 9:53:40 PM2 votes

Seasons 4 was the most balanced. I'm convinced they don't know how to balance anything but their bank accounts.

Kovorix8/30/2019, 11:32:13 PM2 votes

Not only top they don't know what they want to do with their game.

FSRER8/31/2019, 8:19:36 AM2 votes

Riot stopped using logic on Toplane. "A champion is strong compared to others? Alright, let's tune him down" that was their logic while now is "A champion is strong compared to others? Alright, let's buff some other champion to beat him" with the latest example being the Jax buff which only real purpose was to give him an advantage vs Aatrox and Camille.