Disbalance in ranked picks/roles.

undEAdbUs·Aug 26, 2014·2 votes·962 views

Most pro-players recommending to play snowballing champions for fast growing in solo ranked. Game designers knows about it: http://forums.na.leagueoflegends.com/board/showthread.php?t=12029.

Q: If Matchmaking is so fair, how come I just had a bunch of really one-sided matches? A: There are two reasons for this. First, League of Legends sometimes can become 'snowballey'.

So skillful player will grow much faster if he'll play on top/mid/adc positions than as support/tank. Proofs can be found in Challenger tier where most players were maining Lee Sin, Zed, Yasuo, Diana, Akali, Ziggs, Lucian and similar champions.

I think different roles must have same speed of growing in ranked.

14 Comments

WorgslargAug 26, 20143 votes

It's because snowballing champions have an easier time getting ahead and carrying games, where non snowballing champs require consistent coordination and teamwork, both of which solo queue lacks.

undEAdbUsAug 26, 20141 votes

Absolutely truth.

EapenatorAug 26, 20141 votes

In lower elo's, you can get away with things like nidalee bottom or lux support, because solo carrying is so much easier, since every player is extremely predictable. Players who can climb out of low elo are not necessary more skilful or better, they just realized that they can abuse the same pattern that happens every game and snow ball extremely hard.

The reason people think that support and adc are hard champions to climb elo with, are because they pick champions that require team play to carry. The reason morgana is so popular is because she can do both. Of course, as you climb higher, the necessity for a good support becomes even more important, because it makes everyone else's job easier.

In addition to this,while other roles may have direct counter picks or can solo stall, you can virtually play almost any adc carry and support, and out perform you opponent. support and adc have the smallest champion pools, but the largest ratio of viable champions. (of the top of my head, sivir is probably never played, but every other adc can do extremely well, soraka and taric are not strong, but the other supports are). This is why you don't see adc mains main one adc, or supports main one support champion.

undEAdbUsAug 26, 20141 votes

Can't agree about adc - lot of players playing adc and carrying themselves. Adc is enough strong pick to climb elo (especially if other roles already taken), but probably weaker than other carry roles, because adcs are depending on support plays/picks. In most other things I agree with you. But post was not about abusing same pattern. Post was about different grow speed for different roles. Team dependant roles has less possibilities to reach high elo. So this roles more valuable for picking.

MrSc0ttyAug 26, 20141 votes

That's weird. I'm climbing even faster than my buddy who plays top and jungle, and I'm playing support and jungle tank.

Pro tip: get good at something you like and you'll climb especially if it's something not many people like to do.

As a support main, playing against people who are forced into support is the sweetest flavor of freelo for me. I feast on the tears of skinless Blitzcranks and Sonas.

undEAdbUsAug 26, 20141 votes

Post is not about who grows faster - you or your friends. I wrote about opportunities to grow. When good player picks support he will grow fast, if he picks carry champion (assassin, apc, some fighters) he will grow even faster. To be clear: my young brother is Diamond 1. He made another account and picked Tristana in his first ranked game. He did penta and had score like 35-2-15. Would he win this game if he played support? I'm not sure.

Why I can't agree with you?

Before telling that you're growing fast as support, you must try and play carry roles - I'm almost sure that you will grow even faster. Because everything can be evaluated only in comparison with something, even your skill.
Sorry, but Silver 1 is not a division where we can talk about growing. In low elos there is nice possibilities for good players on bot, because most players trying to avoin this lane, so high chances that you will face low-skill players. I grew on botlane from Bronze to Gold in previous season, so I know what I'm talking about. In Gold and higher tiers support role is popular enough.
We don't know, what if you're just much better player than you buddy?
Jungle role is still supportive, and tanks on top are still team dependant.

And one more time - for proofs open any server Challenger Tier and count what percent of supports/junglers there. Numbers don't lie.

WorgslargAug 26, 20141 votes

If you're gonna pull the X rank doesnt count card, you destroy your credibility.

undEAdbUsAug 26, 20141 votes

I didn't mean: "You're low". I meant: "You faced unskilled enemies."

To be clear - Silver is a place where most people found themselves after seeding. If you check ratio percentage you'll find that Silver is biggest Tier. Everybody knows that people in normals don't like to play supports. This players come in ranked and found themselves as last pick (aka Support). They frustrated going to bot with champion they never played before (they said pick Bliz and I picked, what is his Q doing?) and face our friend - MrScotty who showing them how to play support.

In this situation support has impact in game - his adc snowballing and bringing win. Than higher he will get, than less he could do if his team has bad picks or bad game.

Again, I didn't mean he's bad player. I just explained why he can carry as support in his Tier.

WorgslargAug 26, 20141 votes

Ahh.

I agree that unless it's a duo queue, botlane has a much harder time at bronze/silver. It's the one lane where it requires good positioning, and awareness of both self and others in the lane.

You can certainly carry as a support, but you need an adc who can capitalize on your plays.

undEAdbUsAug 26, 20141 votes

Yeah, btw you downvoted me before you tried to understand what I meant. I can't blame anyone since I grew from Bronze 5, playing as support and adc.

kiloechoespAug 26, 20141 votes

Um, honestly, your argument is really weak. First you claim MOST pro-players recommend playing snowball champions, to get higher in ranked, HOWEVER you have absolutely no proof that most pro-players agree with you. What is a snowball champion anyways? Some pro-players may have different opinions on what it might be, meaning that what you think is a snowball champion might not be for a pro.

Your quote from game designers is also conveniently mis-communicating what game designers believe, this is what it says RIGHT afterwords.

"There are two reasons for this. First, League of Legends sometimes can become 'snowballey'. Some team compositions especially, if they start doing well, will keep doing well. **We've seen internal games where you get a 25-5 game and then with the same teams get the opposite result next time around. **" Game designers obviously do not entirely agree with your statement.

Finally you make a wild claim that adc/top/mid will grow much faster than support/tank, without any proof.

You raise higher in the ranks by winning against higher ranked players. To raise faster, you need to win more. Sure some roles, and champions will help you win more. However it is impossible to make them all equal, because different players have different win rates with certain roles and champions. 1 player may have a 90% win rate with support and a 10% win rate with adc, obviously buff adc and nerf support based on that will break the game for someone else.

So different roles do not need to have to be the same. That'll just be boring.

kiloechoespAug 26, 20141 votes

Also, this guy is totally trolling. Oh gawd.

undEAdbUsAug 26, 20141 votes

Who's talking =D

undEAdbUsAug 26, 20141 votes

"There are two reasons for this. First, League of Legends sometimes can become 'snowballey'. Some team compositions especially, if they start doing well, will keep doing well. **We've seen internal games where you get a 25-5 game and then with the same teams get the opposite result next time around. **" Game designers obviously do not entirely agree with your statement.

Same team, not same team compositions. And main idea was about "snowballing". I can't find this season's interview with one of game designers, who said that new meta is based on early domination, and Riot must fix it. After that we get Eve, Elise, Lee Sin, Kha, Ziggs and LB nerfs.

Um, honestly, your argument is really weak. First you claim MOST pro-players recommend playing snowball champions, to get higher in ranked, HOWEVER you have absolutely no proof that most pro-players agree with you. What is a snowball champion anyways? Some pro-players may have different opinions on what it might be, meaning that what you think is a snowball champion might not be for a pro.

http://www.lolpro.com/guides/game-play/212-gameplay-guide-how-to-escape-elo-hell/mechanics-skill-sets

http://www.reddit.com/r/leagueoflegends/comments/1llz77/meteos_ama/cc0q746

http://www.reddit.com/r/leagueoflegends/comments/1wq8st/gambit_alex_ich_ama/cf4fhu1

Snowballing, carrying 1v9 - imho very clear explanation.

Finally you make a wild claim that adc/top/mid will grow much faster than support/tank, without any proof.

http://na.op.gg/ranking/ladder/ - how many supports can you find here? If you look closely - best winratios and least amount of games (to get back into Challenger) have players who played assassins/adcs.

You raise higher in the ranks by winning against higher ranked players. To raise faster, you need to win more. Sure some roles, and champions will help you win more. However it is impossible to make them all equal, because different players have different win rates with certain roles and champions. 1 player may have a 90% win rate with support and a 10% win rate with adc, obviously buff adc and nerf support based on that will break the game for someone else.

I wrote clear explanation for that already: *my young brother is Diamond 1. He made another account and picked Tristana in his first ranked game. He did penta and had score like 35-2-15. Would he win this game if he played support? I'm not sure. *