You want to know why URF leads to less people playing? I can tell you.

Risen29··56 votes·6,719 views

It is a phenomenon I think I realized in MMOGs before I played LoL.

I noticed how I felt after URF. Similar to how I felt after playing a test server in Ultimate Online that let me automatically level up my character to the max.

There is no longer a pursuit of obtaining greater heights. You've already experienced the pinnacle of what a character is capable of, and you realize it wasn't even worth the time to pursue you would have invested in the first place. The easy access to power kind of reveals how hollow the use of your time spent really was once you reach the mountaintop easily. It ceases to have the same perception of value as when you worked long or hard to achieve it.

This sense of pursuit of power is more pronounced in Dota, and honestly it's part of what makes MOBAs appealing from the beginning in my experience. This sense of advancement and leveling up, the pursuit of power, each game you're trying to achieve greater heights than you have before, or trying some new and better build/tactic that requires a big investment of time and gold to pull off and you're not even sure if it will work yet. I don't think that sense of pursuit of power is as high in LoL as it is in Dota (because Dota's more expensive items means you almost never get to fully experience your dream builds, and even if you do achieve that the game is almost over usually anyway), but it's still there in LoL. Which is why LoL is still effected by URF in a negative way.

URF is instant gratification. Why waste 15 minutes of laning and 15 minutes of mid game working up to big abilities, big items, and the mega plays and action when you can just jump strait into it? Why wait for that one time in 10 long games where you get to pull off the perfect combo and ultimate, when URF gives you the opportunity to spam your abilities and pull off these moves with greater frequency? URF gives easy access to unlocking the full power of a character without the need for even having items or levels. You get to push a character to it's limits and play around with things to an extreme that lets you experience more in a shorter timeframe. Consequently, it reduces your tolerance for the slower paced and more methodical nature of the normal game. I noticed this effect in the game World War 2 Online, when they introduced mechanics that made for quicker battles they also reduced the player's tolerance for continuing to engage in the more time consuming forms of battle that had characterized the game for most of it's life.

The problem is not URF, so much as the problem is that the games themselves don't really justify the amount of time we invest in them to begin with. That's not necessarily a knock against the game's quality, but I think it's a general statement of truth about any MMOG or MOBA that people invest more time in them than they should because they are constantly in pursuit of more achievement and realizing their vision of builds/tactics. The instant gratification modes only reveal to players that, regardless of whether or not it's a good game, that it's really not worth the excessive amount of time they have been devoting to it in pursuit of that achievement. It tends to reveal the games for what they are, massive timesinks where the fun bits are buried in mounds of tedium that people generally wish they could bypass. (unfortunately, that tedium also contains a lot of strategic depth, which is why Heroes of the Storm is a shallow, boring game, because they tried to reduce the MOBA experience down to a constant teamfight brawler with no map strategy, no builds. and no ability to gain no level/gold advantages over your opponent that accrue over the course of a game thanks to smart lane play).

I still like URF. I still want it back. It didn't burn me out from wanting to play. But I think I can understand what dynamics might be at work here, because I've had it happen to me in other games.

76 Comments

eslayx22 votes

This is 100% accurate. Playing normals after URF is like jumping on solid ground after half an hour on a trampoline. Maybe if they added a delay for the action? URF already has a healing debuff that changes over time. What about making it grant 10% CDR per minute for the first 8 minutes?

ZackTheWaffleMan2 votes

That's a really interesting idea.

Yalathanil1 votes

It is also like the swap between arcade and realistic modes in War Thunder, especially when playing tanks.

Risen294 votes

{quoted}

It is also like the swap between arcade and realistic modes in War Thunder, especially when playing tanks.

There is more truth to that than most realize.

I played a lot of World War 2 Online, Fighter Ace, and War Thunder over many years.

One thing you notice about those games is that when players are given an option between time intensive realism modes, or the instant action no stress arcade mode, they will usually choose the arcade mode - but they will play the game less in the long run because the arcade mode isn't as compelling. The hard modes never have enough players to support them either, because the arcade players have no reason to push past their comfort zone and suck for a long time while they learn the game all over again (Imagine if new players could start out in URF, and URF gave all the same rewards and ranks as the standard mode. They would have no incentive or reason to ever learn to play the real game. The real game would eventually die off because all the new players get stuck in URF and never graduate from it).

This is what you see in war thunder, where the simulator level rooms are empty, and everyone plays arcade. One of the wrong beliefs put forth by arcade loving players in both Fighter Ace and War Thunder was the idea that people just play what they want, that arcade wasn't sapping players from simulator. It was a lie. Fighter Ace died because in the long run arcade couldn't hold subs when there were better arcade options out there. War Thunder is strong in arcade, but has no viable sim community even though it has a great sim model (because arcade has the URF effect on killing the sim community in their game. You can't do both at the same time, unless you give people massive incentives to push themselves beyond arcade).

It is my contention that arcade is not the most popular because it is superior, or even what people prefer, but because most players don't know the satisfaction that can come from mastering sim level gameplay - and they have no reason to push themselves to learn that. Because they never experience the game at a richer level, they get bored sooner and leave, leading to less players over time. This is probably what was seen with URF. It's hard to go back to sim after playing arcade, but you eventually get bored of playing arcade.

Conversely, if you given them a game that only has a hard mode, but is compelling enough to make them want to learn to master it, they will rise to the challenge. I've seen this in WW2OL. There's only one mode, hard mode. You do or die. Most found the game compelling enough to endure the baby seal clubbing phase until they could become the one doing the clubbing - that's kind of the same dynamic you see in Dota2 and LoL. You might be getting beat senseless as a new player, but you can dream of one day being the guy who crushes lane, pentakills the entire enemy team and carries to victory. I believe that on a psychological level, players have to be challenged by the games to up their skills by the game design itself. Very few are motivated to do it on their own initiative. And most players will take the path that has the best combination of easy reward and least resistance if it is offered to them.

Twizti2 votes

Wow, I did not expect this much depth from a boards post, but as both dota and lol player I'll be damned if it isn't true.

Yalathanil1 votes

Yeah the biggest thing I noticed when I tried playing realistic mode was the tank speed. I was so accustomed to zipping around at 35-45 mph in my PzKpfw IV, then I get my speed cut in half or even more.

GGucciGanGG1 votes

summoner 14 PURE BS... THEY NEED TO CREATE A NEW GAME LIKE DOTA2 CALLED LOL2 AND BLIND URF ON IT as MAIN Permanent Mode.. CAUSE THIS GAME IS DYING ALREADY BECAUSE OF THE low class people who like it with their potato pc and the people who manage it with lack of creativity and common sense these people cant run a business thats why they are employee for real..

GGucciGanGG1 votes

summoner 14 PURE BS... THEY NEED TO CREATE A NEW GAME LIKE DOTA2 CALLED LOL2 AND BLIND URF ON IT as MAIN Permanent Mode.. CAUSE THIS GAME IS DYING ALREADY BECAUSE OF THE low class people who like it with their potato pc and the people who manage it with lack of creativity and common sense these people cant run a business thats why they are employee for real..

GGucciGanGG1 votes

summoner 14 Pure bs... THEY Need to create a new game LIKE DOTA2 CALLED LOL2 and BLIND URF ON IT as MAIN Permanent Mode.. CAUSE THIS GAME IS DYING ALREADY BECAUSE OF THE low class people who like it with their potato pc and the people who manage it with lack of creativity and common sense these people cant run a business thats why they are employee for real..

GGucciGanGG1 votes

Pure bs... THEY Need to create a new game LIKE DOTA2 CALLED LOL2 and BLIND URF ON IT as MAIN Permanent Mode.. CAUSE THIS GAME IS DYING ALREADY BECAUSE OF THE low class people who like it with their potato pc and the people who manage it with lack of creativity and common sense these people cant run a business thats why they are employee for real..

GGucciGanGG1 votes

Pure bs... THEY Need to create a new game LIKE DOTA2 CALLED LOL2 and BLIND URF ON IT as MAIN Permanent Mode.. CAUSE THIS GAME IS DYING ALREADY BECAUSE OF THE low class people who like it with their potato pc and the people who manage it with lack of creativity and common sense these people cant run a business thats why they are employee for real..

Śhunpo20 votes

The thing that just makes my blood boil more than anything is when Riot tries to justify making these "rotating" gamemodes not permanent. Like....we only have plain old 5v5 and that's it. Heaven only knows what happened to the custom game community...oh right, they left the game because Riot ruined everything unique about the custom games, namely removing Crystal Scar entirely so that we could never play Hide and seek ever again.

It's embarrassing that a game with over 100 million players in it with a company worth almost 2.5 billion backing it can't have more than one gamemode.

ApexInTheCircle7 votes

{quoted}

The thing that just makes my blood boil more than anything is when Riot tries to justify making these "rotating" gamemodes not permanent. Like....we only have plain old 5v5 and that's it. Heaven only knows what happened to the custom game community...oh right, they left the game because Riot ruined everything unique about the custom games, namely removing Crystal Scar entirely so that we could never play Hide and seek ever again.

It's embarrassing that a game with over 100 million players in it with a company worth almost 2.5 billion backing it can't have more than one gamemode.

That's one thing that keeps me playing games like Smite, the large amount of game modes available beef up it's replay value.

500000000000000011 votes

Honestly Riot should try to bring back Hide and Seek as an official gamemode, like they did to ARAM.

Śhunpo4 votes

{quoted}

Honestly Riot should try to bring back Hide and Seek as an official gamemode, like they did to ARAM.

I disagree. If they release it as an official gamemode they'd ruin it. Just re-release Crystal Scar for custom games and be done with it.

flibitydoo2 votes

Technically Project:Hunters had a game mode where you kinda had a "hide and seek phase" where one side would gain godmode and vastly superior stats and the idea was the other side had to run away using blastcones, jump pads and vents (brushes) to evade.

But that game mode was limited to ADCs only and was mostly meant to sell skins, and Riot seems to hate keeping event maps that aren't dark star singularity (RIP star guardian maps, RIP butcher's bridge)

Terozu2 votes

I miss hide and seek... :(

Devilreaper XIII7 votes

actually the real reason why so many left is because the mode got released during, exams and springbreak... aka real life caused players to dwindle [slayer-jinx-catface] since the majority of the players are teens and students.

Terozu2 votes

Theyve released it at different times during the uears to test and this isnt true.

Devilreaper XIII1 votes

{quoted}

Theyve released it at different times during the uears to test and this isnt true.

no, they released it during march/may, everytime......

Terozu1 votes

They also released during the fall... and in the middle of the school year...

3TWarrior1 votes

with the rotating game queue and without providing balance to a mode that needed it

When urf was first released, Riot issued balance updates to it

The mode is still fun now, but what happens when one team gets an insanely overpowered champion? Riot stopped updating the mode, so there was little for anyone to do other than meet power-gamers that played every meta champion in the mode

Terozu1 votes

Relevancy......... 0/10

3TWarrior1 votes

it's absolutely relevant. A game mode is not fun if someone wins just because they got first pick. You stated that riot released it at times other than april fools. Yes, they did, only after the rotating game mode was released and when they released said mode, they stopped balancing URF, making it win or lose based on luck and who had the better champs

Terozu1 votes

Again, literally no relevance.

3TWarrior1 votes

really? can you explain how it has no relevance to both your comment and the conversation at hand?

Terozu1 votes

Sure!

Your complaints about balance have no relevancy to my statment that they released Urf a different times year round because, balance has nothing to do with release dates! And noone had brought it up therefore it was irrelevant.

Its like if some one said, "they release this icecream at different times during the year." And another person saying "yeah but it has chocolate sprinkles".

[slayer-jinx-catface]

3TWarrior1 votes

That is completely flawed. By your own analogy, it's that "they release this ice cream at different times during the year...but they left it out in the sun and it spoiled. It's still the same ice cream, right?"

straw mans really are annoying XD

Terozu1 votes

No, my analogy was correct. I talked about release dates. You talked about a personal preference irrelevant to the release date.

3TWarrior1 votes

I will explain my point again. For the first two years of URF, balance updates were issued to keep it in check so there were not extreme cases, such as teemo and kassadin

for those first two years, the game was only released on april fools day or the weekend just before it for convenience. The first year it was so popular that it was extended from one week to over a month with multiple acknowledgements of popular demand

year two, the demand was still as great, more balance updates were issued, but riot limited it to one week for the cost of keeping a dedicated server up.

year three, there was no urf. Instead we received the...well let's just call it the Draven is Fabulous draven-madness update that they had to cancel after 2 days despite it being scheduled for 2 weeks because it was cheaply made and poorly integrated

year four, I don't think I was present at the time and missed it. Then, after that the rotating game mode came into existence

After the second year, riot stopped issuing balance updates and left it to rot, leaving a stale meta with top picks and "don't pick" tier champions with little room for anything between

Terozu1 votes

And i will reiterate. That has nothing to do with the fact it released outside of march/april.

3TWarrior1 votes

And I will state again that they did not do that until after they released the rotating game mode, at which point there were no announcements, no balance updates and it only lasts for 3 days at a time

the issue of people leaving URF started before they tested it at different times of the year because for two to three years, the matches played were EXACTLY the same instead of doing what they had done previously

Some champions were deemed too dangerous for the mode (teemo excels at both attack speed and AP builds) and kassadin was one of the few champions in the game that became too strong to handle because of unlimited mana

Then other offending cases were altered. Sona had her cooldowns and healing amount changed for URF only. Stealth characters, I honestly don't remember what they did with them because I didn't use them. Tanks received some kind of buff/nerf combination

etc

RIOT stopped updating the game mode...what other modes do we know of that suffer from lack of updates? ARAM, Twisted Treeline, Dominion(dead), bot battles (infested with farming hackers)...

Hammermancer6 votes

I think people quit when urf goes away because urf isn't permanent...

Like if urf didn't go away then most of those people would probably just keep playing urf the way we all have those friends who only do aram

I've also heard whispers of one lone man playing twisted treeline this very day eerie music

ok ill fed then5 votes

I'm that friend who only plays aram and then waits until the last 3 weeks of the season to play ranked and get the border. If aram weren't always available i would barely get on.

Spitemaster3 votes

Just want to say: This is why Dominion was so good, to those of us who took the time to learn it.

3TWarrior3 votes

which makes it kind of funny because so many of the boards players are dominion or WERE :( dominion players

It was also neglect that ruined the game mode, which is the same thing causing problems everywhere else now

3TWarrior3 votes

not really. I'd say it's more that for the players, as much as they love URF, few balancing decisions have been made and there was no incentive to stop the power-players from just getting whatever was meta (the same problem as in the real game, but more pronounced)

there were champions with excessively high ban rates in URF and then riot stopped putting resources into the mode

Dominion suffered from that for years from Riot and died out because of it.

It's not so much instant gratification (which there wasn't), it was that there was no variety and the fast-paced gameplay very-much encouraged people's inner toxicity to emerge.

I love URF and I will always love URF, but when a game mode is left to rot by its own developers, what is the community to do?

Andrey03452 votes

Well, I don't really mind everything not happening instantly after playing URF, as that's part of the game and it being slow isn't really a barrier but a game's nature and that applies to all players in that game. It surely feels a bit boring but you quickly get used to it again.

Pixie Storm2 votes

Well thought out and stated, upvoted. After an urf game I would feel the need to slow it down and again and return to norms at the end of the night because norms to me, were fun! Then gradually norms started becoming something I'd wait for my friends to get online for. Why? Because of the shifting meta making items and just gameplay boring. I liked having semi long games where you could actually think about how you would outplay your opponent not stress about towers. Even URF by august last year started to feel awful.

FCJAAAAGOOOO2 votes

Disagree. A champion with a stun on an 8 second cooldown and a champion with a stun on a 1.5 second cooldown with no Mana resource are two different champions.

BubbaV2 votes

too bad riot won't do anything because they're fucking retarded

SpecterVonBaren2 votes

I'm bookmarking this for the next time people whine for URF because it explains the problem with it perfectly. There can be no more concise and accurate description of the problem with URF than this post.

SanKakU2 votes

Made some good points, but that's not how HotS works.

Risen291 votes

{quoted}

Made some good points, but that's not how HotS works.

I played at platinum MMR as specialist role when I did play HotS, and started before it was out of beta.

What I said about HotS stands.

The reason HOTS is failing as a game, and never did well from the start, is because they never understood the core of what attracted people to Dota in the first place - The concept of leveling up and gaining power over the course of a game. I remember playing Dota back in Warcraft 3 and that was the main thing that made it so addicting, was all the potential options you could explore with so many heroes and items over the course of an hour long game. HOTS also failed to recognize that a core part of what made Dota/LoL fun was the strategic elements of being able to accrue small advantages into large gains over the course of a game. There's a lot of fun in being able to best your lane opponent and push that into objective gains that snowball leads for your team.

Instead, HOTS devs wrongly banked on the idea that what people really wanted out of a MOBA was just teamfight brawling - So they use overpowered map objectives to force players to teamfight brawl from beginning to end. They remove items. They make team shared experience. There are no game phases. They make objectives arbitrarily powerful to force every game to end by 20 minutes.

In fact, a change in dev leadership maybe a year after release caused them to double down on teamfights over objectives as the element they wanted to emphasize, to the point where they gutted lane/map control elements and effectively removed the specialist class from a game. Originally a tower sieging, lane control/waveclearing, and merc control class. They give every role the ability to waveclear and take mercs. They make taking towers early meaningless. They make objectives even more powerful. They change the specialist icon and description to now just be a dumping ground for utility champions that have no clear purpose in the game. They just aren't called support because they don't have healing. Rather than realize why they weren't as popular as other MOBAs because they lacked depth and strategy, they decided they had too much and they just needed to go all in on being a mindless teamfight brawler.

Obviously, as a specialist player who enjoyed being able to win games by applying constant lane pressure, controlling mercs, and hitting towers, I quit the game once they effectively removed the most strategic role from the game and turned every game into a furball over the map objective. I mean, it already was that kind of game to begin with, but at least you had the option of winning through smart strategy and split pushing. They outright removed that option and dumbed the game down even further.

SanKakU1 votes

Your first elaborating paragraph here is philosophical and doesn't have any relevance to what you posted earlier. The second paragraph here is pretty much accurate although marked with bias. Honestly, lately, I feel like mercenaries are just not impacting the game in a meaningful way anymore on most maps. I liked playing all classes but it's frustrating when you play with people that clearly do not wish to play certain classes but do it anyway. And in general, the HotS community has just been so incredibly toxic. Worse than LoL's at their lowest points.

Anyways, you can still make comebacks while losing early objectives, they've done a lot to balance the game and generally it's looking good after such changes at least for a little while until they release a new hero. I think the design of all 3 games has mostly improved over time, Dota 2, LoL, and HotS that is.

Risen291 votes

{quoted}

Your first elaborating paragraph here is philosophical and doesn't have any relevance to what you posted earlier.

What I said is true, and putting a label on it (calling it philosophical) doesn't make it untrue.

What I said stands unchallenged by you.

Cavemantero2 votes

when they introduced mechanics that made for quicker battles

I'm not sure that its the sense of power/achievement...I'm pretty sure its the amount of fun whether win or lose in URF that made it so popular. The other thing is that URF hasn't hurt 5-man SR as much as Riot has through their balance team and poor champion redesign choices. For example, leaving well known broken champs untouched because they sell skins and the whole release a champion overpowered so we can nerf them when the next champ comes out phenom money grab.

Even the last Lunar Revel whatever was so pathetic I wanted to quit just because they had the nerve to put something out that gave such mediocre rewards for the sake of a cash grab. Even a friend of mine who has come back has noticed that the nuance that made Seasons 3-5 is completely gone now and so we just typically play ARAMs now because it is simply funner. SR was funnest for me in Season 5 during the amazing Bilgewater event and Brawlers mode which added a level of depth depth to SR that is sorely lacking now.

The time spent doesn't matter to most people as long as they are having fun. This is where Riot's pandering to the people who wanted 'quicker battles' as actually backfired on them in a big way. Because the people who wanted quicker battles were simply not having fun playing the game because their reasons for playing it were success in advancing in rank (typically) and think that more games in a shorter period of time would help which again, is the reason for the cry for ff @ 15 etc. People who lost hope and feel there is no way to comeback immediately put themselves in a 'not having fun' mentality.

Sure winning is fun but a great game is the ones where you can even lose and look back and say, I wish I had won but I had fun in that game. Those games are fewer and far between with the amount of rofl stomps now. That is the only thing I could see that URF brought competition to Solo Queue in and why it competed with it. People wanted to have fun without the consequences of being tilted after losing a long ranked game or getting mega stomped which is harder for people to get over when they aren't having fun and having to deal with toxic personalities on a per game basis.

League of Legends and any moba based on DOTA really was about the tug of war aspect to the game which has been shut down by impatient/unsatisfied players who are success driven rather than enjoyment driven. Riot has wrongly misplaced that these are the people that make up the majority of the player base, thus the push of LCS, faster games, flashier plays, etc, and so the people who actually want a satisfying experience are driven from the game in multiple ways or find other ways (such as URF) to satisfy the need for fun.

Athenes Lulu2 votes

Funnily enough, I am actually like that in MMOs. Once I'm done farming for the highest levels of items, or even achieving that dream build from grinding for so long, I got bored and quitted such games.

I think that can relate to "reaching that maximum potential".

GGucciGanGG2 votes

summoner 14 PURE BS... THEY NEED TO CREATE A NEW GAME LIKE DOTA2 CALLED LOL2 AND BLIND URF ON IT as MAIN Permanent Mode.. CAUSE THIS GAME IS DYING ALREADY BECAUSE OF THE low class people who like it with their potato pc and the people who manage it with lack of creativity and common sense these people cant run a business thats why they are employee for real..

Stavik961 votes

Which is why I would be so much happier if they just made URF a permanent mode. Like i'm legit not going to play SR ever, the toxic community has ruined that mode for me, when URF is out I will play the shit out of it, when URF ends i'll just go play ARAM and mute all the toxic people and actually have fun myself. Maybe if the community was less salty I'd actually give a damn about working together with all the toxic shits.

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