Bot lane is currently if you die a single time you lose your tower.

Hópe·Dec 4, 2017·168 votes·4,589 views

Thats honestly what it is and its horrible. It promotes extreme snow balling and other lane pressure so early in the game.

54 Comments

redniwediSDec 4, 201732 votes

It's not just bot lane. If you die to a gank top the tower is just gone, and I'm sure mid is the same way.

Fisher No ChainsDec 4, 20179 votes

Dying once mid around level 6 means that both midlane and botlane are done. And don’t forget the free drake too.

Lushen0928Dec 5, 20171 votes

get gud then ;P

DeusVultDec 4, 20171 votes

Top lane isnt as bad because people usually run TP and can get back to the lane and clear the wave. Mid lane doesnt have the auto-DPS needed to take an early tower. If the jungler stays, then maybe mid or top can get an early one, but only if your jungler isnt in a position to rotate and protect the tower.

Bot lane is far worse though, as bot members are almost always ranged which allows them to damage the turret safer, ADCs are better at taking turrets than any other class, even early, and since their are 2 of them the turret goes down faster. Tack onto that the 4 or 5 man dives that happen all the time bot lane, and that turret is going to go down faster than anyone can respond.

cPXt3JHpf4Dec 5, 20171 votes

Mid and Top turrets have Damage reductions until 5min. I've seen bot lanes lose their turrets in 4 min

RankOneUgandaDec 5, 20173 votes

{quoted}

It's not just bot lane. If you die to a gank top the tower is just gone, and I'm sure mid is the same way.

mid is a short lane. so no.

SkorchDec 4, 201716 votes

you see, this was the meta start of season 7. Only difference is Lee Sin isnt in every game. No one seems to remember the origin of ADC 2k17 before it became a meme.

fƒ15Dec 4, 201710 votes

Especially with the demolish rune! I've been playing Jinx with the demolish rune bc she pushes fast and ppl have been pinging UHH JINX HAS THE TANK RUNE PATHH and I'm like lol I'll enjoy my free first turret gold and just carry even tho my sup sucks derp

OneriosDec 4, 20171 votes

It's not even a daft idea ignoring demolish. Jinx does loads of dps anyway, unless your the sole damage source against a team with multiple tanks sacrificing a little bit of damage to ensure that you can lane safely and get to your items in a timely manner is absolutely a worthwhile tradeoff. The amount of sustain you can get from stacking second wind and dorans shield is nutty, or having extra resists to survive and turn an all in.

LazyW0lfDec 4, 20176 votes

Remember when there was a certain amount of farm you should get at 10 mins and it was a goal you could hold yourself to? Now the goal is to keep your tower for 10 minutes.

VathrielDec 4, 20175 votes

Similarly, the biggest problem mid is that you don't even need to die. I've backed at the same time as my laner and watched a jungler walk into my lane and just take the tower while I was walking back. From full health.

[sg-janna]

Troll for TrumpDec 4, 20175 votes

Every lane is that snowbally tbh

SnowplosionDec 4, 20175 votes

Dude, it really isn't unless you die at like eleven minutes. I play as much bot as possible. It just doesn't work like that, especially early. No-one in the ADC or support rosters have the damage to do that unless they get helped from the mid and jungler.

nGioDec 4, 20176 votes

Well that's the idea. When the patch dropped and I was bottom, I would tell the jungle "hey come bot and gank these turds, then we'll knock over the tower, and crush out the dragon on our way to mid". I don't even need to say that anymore, because it just happens every game now. The jungle comes, and if we get a kill then say goodbye to bot tower, the dragon, the mid tower, and the game.

notice me Sin piDec 4, 20171 votes

that explains why i suk at jungling... when i gank as jungler, i usually go back to farming jungle or another lane to gank instead of getting a tower

OneriosDec 4, 20171 votes

What you do is going to be dependent on what else is happening on the map, helping with the tower push is rarely a bad idea, but won't always be optimal. Sometimes you need to recall for health so the enemy jungler does not get a long period to do whatever they like elsewhere on the map, sometimes you should gank another lane (or countergank) to spread the advantage around, sometimes the tower taking is fast enough that you should not worry about it and go take jungle camps to improve your personal income.

But yeh, if all three of you are healthy bot, your dragon is reasonably fast, and the enemy jungler is not going to go do something like top lane gank into top lane tower, herald and top lane mid tower (because if you don't respond to that inbib tower loss becomes a serious threat way earlier then it should), bot lane tower into drag followed by shoving mid for a kill or tower is one of the better gold swings you can achieve.

Brain Errör 404Dec 5, 20171 votes

It's nice that your jgler comes. My jgler almost never listens to me, even if I'm ahead. "Come down bot, they have no summs. You can get a counter off if the enemy team ganks + we can get tower". 2minutes later my jg moves from bot lane jg to top lane, their jgler ganks, their mid ganks and their top tps... if only... if only people were smart.

VerxintDec 4, 20175 votes

What's even more aggravating is as soon as one team gets a turret they can just 4 man into another lane and take that tower before you can even rebound the wave. Even if you do pressure their turret in the lane that went down, they can almost always make it there to punish you.

PsybicilinDec 5, 20171 votes

If the enemy bot lane takes your tower, you should be rotating to match them, while bot lane becomes a safe farm lane for mid or top. This can actually be pretty decent, as the bot lane becomes a freeze as long as you have enough wave-clear to defend turrets. The only downside is if you RNG infernal drake, then losing that tower is pretty bad. I don't like this mindset that losing first tower is somehow end of the world.

AFilthyCaitMainDec 4, 20174 votes

Bot lane is the most snowbally cause mage supports, no MR, snowbally adcs and hypercarries being super meta, 2 people are in the lane, etc.

PsybicilinDec 5, 20172 votes

I hate to break it to ya, but mage supports lost 15.5 MPen from the new runes, while adc's lost 12 MR. While they do get a fair amount of early AP from the Sorcery Tree, this is made up for by losing the 72 health, making them even more squishy in lane. That's why engage tank supports are actually stronger atm than mage supports like Zyra and Brand. The win rates cement this. imo anyways

Fargo79Dec 5, 20171 votes

{quoted}

I hate to break it to ya, but mage supports lost 15.5 MPen from the new runes, while adc's lost 12 MR. While they do get a fair amount of early AP from the Sorcery Tree, this is made up for by losing the 72 health, making them even more squishy in lane. That's why engage tank supports are actually stronger atm than mage supports like Zyra and Brand. The win rates cement this. imo anyways

I agree here... i played ALOT of Nami last season.. but since the changes i cant play her cause the enemy goes Leo and shits on my head. Good news is i also play leo and this means i get to do the shitting on heads now...

Chaocontrol64Dec 5, 20171 votes

{quoted}

I agree here... i played ALOT of Nami last season.. but since the changes i cant play her cause the enemy goes Leo and shits on my head. Good news is i also play leo and this means i get to do the shitting on heads now...

I feel like I should be trying Leona out, good call!!

[slayer-jinx-wink]

AIIanDec 4, 20174 votes

I thought you were kidding. Then I died and lost my tower 6 minutes in.

SteamedSuperiorDec 4, 20174 votes

You are correct to a certain extant. You need to be able to know how to deal with an enemy that has been given 300 gold, but at the same time, so does your team. You have to be able to just farm under tower until help arrives. If you do not receive help then you just play it out until late game and begin to group with your team. Focus on not dying more than you would I trying to farm by taking bad trades and losing summoner spells and health. For your comment on snowballing I would have to say that is how the game has always been. It is all according to how you play the game and what champion you are going against. Good luck out there on the rift. [slayer-pantheon-thumbs]

Blue MystifiedDec 5, 20173 votes

definitely not my experience. It's only like that if you continue to feed / the jungler or mid ganked and stays for the whole tower and they have a HUGE wave (even then this almost never happens from one death) this can also happen if this happens around 15 minutes and they're already farmed up with an IE or something but by then its mid game and there should be more map control going on from your jg/mid sure it can LEAD to it if you die more/ back while they're pushing, but i've had a single digit number of times in the past month where i died once and tower was gone before i got back, at least before 15-20 mins

LegitBusinessmanDec 5, 20173 votes

It's frankly quite stupid.

Riot: We want to put more focus on the top part of the map, so we made Rift Herald for the first 20 minutes.

::Implements first tower blood and nerfs bot turrets to be weaker than the others::

DarthFantasiaDec 4, 20172 votes

I honestly have no idea why they made botlanes towers have no damage reduction. That just seems stupid to me.

PoskeDec 4, 20173 votes

{quoted}

I honestly have no idea why they made botlanes towers have no damage reduction. That just seems stupid to me.

Because of lane swaps

LC$

DarthFantasiaDec 4, 20171 votes

If I’m a pro, screw the other towers. Lol. I’m just gonna target not lame since it will go down the easiest.

Fargo79Dec 5, 20172 votes

{quoted}

I honestly have no idea why they made botlanes towers have no damage reduction. That just seems stupid to me.

they should give tower damage reduction based on how many are in its field of vision... maybe even buff its damage that way as well so if you get dived under tower the tower will punish that support or jungle thats tanking the hit better...

Mig89Dec 4, 20172 votes

This is only true if you decide to trade at a bad time. Knowing what will happen if you die should factor into your decision to engage.

Charlie Loves UDec 4, 20172 votes

As a bot laner I wouldn't quite say its this exaggerated, but bot lane is pretty snowbally right now. But its a fiesta in general. I have many games I die twice but then we triple kill the enemy in a gank because my damage from just runes is so damn fucking high.

The issue I mainly have is that dives seem a little too easy to pull off. I wish towers hit a little bit harder. Not a lot, but a little bit harder. I wish they would add a mechanic where towers do more damage or ramp up faster the more enemies there are diving you so they gotta be very quick and efficient when diving you.

I had a dive happen to me the other day where me and my Janna outplayed the fuck out of the enemy under our tower and we didn't even come close to killing the guy taking the tower. I think manage to ezreal E a CC, janna knocked back a khazix all while their nautilus just tanking the tower (this is pre items btw) and im hitting him the entire time and I flash another cc. heal and the naut manages to leave the tower with like 30% health. It was rather depressing.

Smalleyedasian2Dec 5, 20172 votes

why cant graves have a cigar

General Esdeath Dec 5, 20172 votes

https://i.imgur.com/WEpdms7.png

https://i.imgur.com/GkC7t9U.png

Both of these games we got the tower in under 8 minutes. The reason I included the Jhin picture (it's only half dead) is because people may say "Well Vayne with the attack speed boost from Nunu can get off more autos!" but Jhin doesn't get more attack speed.

Riot, why the fuck is a tower dying at 5:42 bot lane? I don't have the replay (20 games happened since this one so no video, rip) but iirc we got ONE kill bot lane and forced the support (I think it was the support) to back. And we got the tower. Clearly something is wrong here, and it's not going to be fixed with towers getting more HP or Yorick losing 3 base AD.

Modl Ryden lDec 4, 20171 votes

And every minion you could possibly score to come back with from the gold deficit.

AbibyamaDec 4, 20171 votes

Lol

Try first blooding and then take first tower at 3 min

NiceHPBarDec 4, 20171 votes

This is so true, I usually main toplaners and junglers namely Rek'sai and Yasuo but iI recently bought Jinx to try out adc's. My first two games consisted of dying once going back to lane and discovering my tower had 20% health remaining and their Draven was 2 levels ahead of me

DarkKatalystDec 4, 20171 votes

That hasn't been my experience. It only occurs if the jungler is around, which is pretty rare itself.

ISOzHellDec 4, 20171 votes

Yeah, not to mention gets three tanks on one team, it really does not matter if the other two are shitty, they just plow through your towers. Towers need an upgrade in damage and defense.

ZtokaDec 4, 20171 votes

My bot lane was feeding pretty hard and still managed to take the first tower in the game...

Yordle XayahDec 5, 20171 votes

If anyone thinks this guy is exaggerating, check out my game the other day:

https://matchhistory.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/#match-details/NA1/2646102610/50591306?tab=overview

I think that Lucian and Janna both would agree. And so do I. I shouldn't be able to do what I did this game.

BoulderoxDec 5, 20171 votes

i just want to know how myself as a Poppy , can fight off a Yorick , Zyra that roamed and a rift herald, and keep tower alive, while the team can't do jack shit with their towers???

The thing i have come to know, is cannon minion waves are your best friend, they are the strongest waves in lane phase and as long as it isn't crashing in, it takes a while for one side to win even with a laner pushing pretty hard, giving you a decent extra window of time for you to get back to lane or do what you need to.

PsybicilinDec 5, 20173 votes

Yes, a lot of people don't understand that backing right before a cannon wave is a good way to lose your tower hp.

WráthfulDec 5, 20171 votes

u actually can lose 2 towers if the jg stays 20 sec more :P

Altonius AmakiirDec 5, 20171 votes

A bit of a hyperbole, but definitely how it feels.

Chaocontrol64Dec 5, 20171 votes

So if bot lane is the only lane with two champs either side, why doesn't those towers get damage reduction?

AlienPrimateDec 5, 20171 votes

This one was really cool. Enemy gets first blood on the support (me) and my adc has to go back.

On my way back from being first blooded at 3 minutes in: "Enemy has destroyed a turret"

https://matchhistory.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/#match-details/NA1/2662633709/209287161?tab=overview

Nea104Dec 5, 20171 votes

What's aggravating this it's your adc S2 and their one G2. Great coding.

LordGeovanniDec 5, 20171 votes

same top only lane it isnt like that is mid because its the short lane and mages have slightly less pushing power than adcs early so compared to their compareable pushing power to adcs IF they auto attack towers