Meddler, Any Plans to Nerf Thresh?

The Yetii Rider·Sep 10, 2015·118 votes·6,110 views

Thresh is rocking a 50+% win rate in the LCS right now and a very high pick rate too. This is the World's patch, right? If Eve is seen as potentially problematic, and Janna got nerfed as well, then shouldn't Thresh get some attention?

Edit: Here's a suggestion. Why not take the AP scaling off his soul collection? That's invisible power if I've ever seen it. Thresh already gets on-hit damage and armor from his souls, he doesn't need more damage on every skill and a bigger shield too.

196 Comments

MadraSep 10, 201540 votes

Thresh's kit could do 0 damage and he'd still get picked; relic shield covers his one weakness- no lane sustain. But some of the strongest ADC's right now are those that can build early cutlass.

I knew Janna nerfs were incoming when suddenly she was first picked in the LCS and Deficio sounded surprised.

Krys StarSep 10, 201534 votes

I'd be glad if Thresh's kit did 0 damage. It does too much. He does a decent amount of damage, while gaining ap over time to increase that decent damage. Blitz, Leona and Naut's damage falls off past laning phase but Thresh's never falls off. He never does damage like an ap mid or carry, but he does twice the amount of damage any other supports would normally do while building tanky and gaining armor over the duration of the game as well.

I kind of wish CertainlyT and Riot would just realize that all of CertainlyT's creations are extremely anti-fun, frustrating and toxic to play against. His designs are amazing, he makes champions fun, but he doesn't make them healthy enough for the game. Each and every one of his champions are overloaded with free stats and more cc than needed.

Ryot NomadSep 10, 201521 votes

I was going to upvote until I saw the certainlyT hate.

You could have stopped just before that.

RetillinSep 10, 201533 votes

I wouldn't say it was "hate". He has a point, everything he said about CT's champions is correct. He never attacked the person. We need to get away from this idea that attacking someone's design/champions/theory is "hate". Hate is attacking someone. He doesn't say a single bad thing about CT the person. Just that he has failed as a designer. Never calls for his job/called him an idiot/ect...

It is okay to demand better production from someone/thing. If there is a history of that person/thing doing the same thing over and over, then it is a pattern (as in CT's over-loaded champions).

Can we all just stop "white knighting" if something negative is said, and it's not done with malicious intent vs the person?

MetalGearTeemuSep 10, 20158 votes

"Disagreeing with me is a hate crime".

"Stop oppressing me" etc.

"Casting doubt on someone's decision making is a trigger".

Krys StarSep 10, 20157 votes

As Retillin said, it wasn't hate at all. I don't know where in that post you saw hate towards CertainlyT. I never once flamed the man. I commended him for making fun, unique champions, but disagreed with how toxic and anti-fun they are to play against due to the nature of their kits being overloaded. Please reread my post and realize it's nothing against CertainlyT.

ZenfroSep 10, 20156 votes

I'd be glad if Thresh's kit did 0 damage. It does too much. He does a decent amount of damage, while gaining ap over time to increase that decent damage. Blitz, Leona and Naut's damage falls off past laning phase but Thresh's never falls off. He never does damage like an ap mid or carry, but he does twice the amount of damage any other supports would normally do while building tanky and gaining armor over the duration of the game as well.

No. Blitzcrank does more damage at level 6, in case you did not know

Krys StarSep 10, 20151 votes

That is true, but I was talking about after laning phase ends and the game goes into mid and late game. But Blitz does do excessive damage for a champion full of cc.

Sniper 0Sep 10, 20152 votes

[{quoted}](name=Frozen Beauty,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=rqVE9sRH,comment-id=0003000000010000,timestamp=2015-09-10T18:50:47.954+0000)

That is true, but I was talking about after laning phase ends and the game goes into mid and late game. But Blitz does do excessive damage for a champion full of cc.

To be fair most of his cc only affects one target so obviously damage should be allowed. imho Thresh has more utility but lacks substantial damage.

Also, this is at op, saying that thresh's souls are like invisible power.... You have nasus who has q stacks you can see both champs stacks. So would you say nasus's q stacks are an invisible power? So what I'm getting at is, by this logic, that we should remove all stacking abilities because you could consider them invisible power.

Ulquiorra995Sep 11, 20153 votes

If you deny Nasus his stacks, he has nothing later in the game. If you deny Thresh his stacks, he still has shitloads of utility.

Honestly, just nerf this fucker for the sake of variety at least. At this point I don't care if he's balanced (although he obviously isn't), I just want to face or team up with something other than this overloaded garbage.

Blue Moon WolfSep 10, 20153 votes

relic shield covers his one weakness- no lane sustain.

I've used relic shield on him, I for one find it hard to land those last hits on minions with him and stick with ancient coin because of it. I get gold, upgrading it gives you health and mana regen and with item 3069 you get a movement speed booster allowing you to do a makeshift version of blitzcrank's E/Q combo that just about every blitzcrank user likes to do.

A Miss FortuneSep 10, 20154 votes

It's kind of funny Thresh can do a ton of damage as a Support and he's actually made to be able to legitimately go AP with strong engage and better utility, or AD and 1 shot somebody by whipping them.

Zone of EndlessSep 10, 201529 votes

for god sake at least remove the extra damage he gets from E

undesirable teamSep 10, 201510 votes

{quoted}

for god sake at least remove the extra damage he gets from E

But.. But.. My ADC THRESH ;-; item 3070

Dextix LTSep 10, 201518 votes

Nah, just like lee he will have LCS immunity for a few more years.

MLDzXnRRRSep 10, 201514 votes

Do you remember when Thresh was shielding his whole team?

VDc0zCqe0wSep 10, 201511 votes

Free damage on E needs to go, it needed to go since his first release: there is no reason a kill lane support should be able to have a strong poke.

Pair the E damage with sustain from Relic and suddenly Thresh has everything: even poke and sustain (albeit minimal, it's STILL there, and it makes a hell of a work).

PartholonianSep 11, 20151 votes

You clearly don't know what strong poke is if you think Thresh's post-range-nerf AA qualifies.

He's also as squishy in lane as Sona, Janna or Soraka. Try him and see. It takes soul stacking and items to make him even slightly tanky. A stronger engager with actual tankiness like Leona can just jump him and kill him, if her ADC is about as good as Thresh's (or better obv).

VDc0zCqe0wSep 11, 20152 votes

{quoted}

You clearly don't know what strong poke is if you think Thresh's post-range-nerf AA qualifies.

He's also as squishy in lane as Sona, Janna or Soraka. Try him and see. It takes soul stacking and items to make him even slightly tanky. A stronger engager with actual tankiness like Leona can just jump him and kill him, if her ADC is about as good as Thresh's (or better obv).

Leona can't even engage vs Thresh due to his flay blocking her E and due to him being ranged (for some strange reason), he basically works the same way as Janna vs Leona, there's nothing Leona can do to win that lane.

Thresh has got a form of poke damage: this is undeniable and it's free power slapped onto his kit for no reason at all.

Janna has got a form of poke with shield+AAs, but at least she has to spend her mana.

Zone of EndlessSep 11, 20152 votes

{quoted}

You clearly don't know what strong poke is if you think Thresh's post-range-nerf AA qualifies.

He's also as squishy in lane as Sona, Janna or Soraka. Try him and see. It takes soul stacking and items to make him even slightly tanky. A stronger engager with actual tankiness like Leona can just jump him and kill him, if her ADC is about as good as Thresh's (or better obv).

I get 700 hp starting relic and sustain from it

I can walk up to sona and aa her once and wins the trade because I have sustain with relic

TotalisSep 10, 201510 votes

Thresh is completely balanced. He's been nerfed so much already, do we need more. as an adc main, i've never really been afraid when I see the enemy pick thresh. I honestly groan more when they pick blitz, nami, naut, or sona.

TarynSep 10, 20155 votes

{quoted}

Thresh is completely balanced. He's been nerfed so much already, do we need more.

HA that's a good one, you almost had me going for a moment there.

http://media.giphy.com/media/VuPgcfM3WMtX2/giphy.gif

TotalisSep 10, 20152 votes

{quoted}

HA that's a good one, you almost had me going for a moment there.

he has a 49% win rate in plat+ games, has the 9th best overall performance in plat+, and a 48% winrate across all divisions. He is VERY balanced. Dont believe me? here and here

RatbertSep 10, 20155 votes

That implies that 49% winrates matter with a ludicrous 35+% pickrate.

Bear in mind, probably half of that 35% plays thresh as a "I'm forced to support" or "I heard he's good" and don't actually master him.

TotalisSep 10, 20153 votes

That goes with any support though. Many people I know, myself included, when forced to support go with sona, or braum, or somebody else, anyone but thresh actually. In plat+ most (not all) people will know what they want to play and are good enough with when it comes to the support role when they are forced into it that they won't pick someone like thresh if they arent expecting at least a decent performance with it.

RatbertSep 10, 20152 votes

You may know many people who won't default to thresh, but having around 6x the ranked pickrate of sona and almost double that of braum means most people still do. Besides, with that high pickrate, it's much harder for thresh mains to outweigh the enormous amount of casual thresh players who may not be good enough to win. Meanwhile, sona mains need six times less wins to affect her winrate as much as thresh mains.

Generally, when you're forced to play your worse role, you don't exactly get a decent performance with them. Even in plat and diamond, there are usually people who strongly prefer not to play certain roles and do not perform well. In fact, you rarely get forced into a role in plat and diamond because people are somewhat more accommodating.

SmithneySep 10, 20156 votes

{quoted}

Thresh is completely balanced.

He is not completely balanced. He is not OP, but he is way too broken to be called "completely balanced". He maybe isn't as scary as Blitz or Naut, or as annoying as Sona or Nami, but he is very versatile while being one of the safest bottom-lane bullies.

chide da junglerSep 10, 20159 votes

Thresh is as OP in pro play as EVE is. But no they won't nerf him.

Slamurai JackSep 10, 20157 votes

Why are we circlejerking about Thresh now?

DengedenSep 10, 20156 votes

Because nobody here plays support, so they're just looking at what does most on paper. And the casters go nuts when Thresh lands a hook, not when Janna screws over a team fight, Karma gives an item 3504 boost to her entire team or Nautilus clicks R.

manbearswineSep 10, 201510 votes

{quoted}

Because nobody here plays support, so they're just looking at what does most on paper. And the casters go nuts when Thresh lands a hook, not when Janna screws over a team fight, Karma gives an boost to her entire team or Nautilus clicks R.

I main support,have been waiting for nerfs to that overloaded piece of garbage for years.

DengedenSep 10, 20153 votes

It's kind of sad that you missed out on the nerfs he got last year then...

Heck you could even argue that all the nerfs to the lane bully ADCs as well as the buff to the ancient coin line were nerfs to Thresh.

manbearswineSep 10, 20156 votes

{quoted}

It's kind of sad that you missed out on the nerfs he got last year then...

Heck you could even argue that all the nerfs to the lane bully ADCs as well as the buff to the ancient coin line were nerfs to Thresh.

Wouldn't all the alistar,janna and braum nerfs be seen as buffs to him then? How about the lack of viability of poke supports since s3?

How exactly would ancient coin buffs be nerfs to thresh? he can use it better than most of his tank support competition,and those who aren't tanks aren't much of a competition to him anyway.

You're right,thresh has actually been getting buffs,which makes the situation even worse.

pacifishstickSep 10, 20152 votes

{quoted}

How about the lack of viability of poke supports since s3?

Someone should let LemonNation know.

manbearswineSep 10, 20151 votes

{quoted}

Someone should let LemonNation know.

No need, http://lol.esportspedia.com/wiki/LemonNation/Statistics/2015 As you can see his champion pool is completely dominated by tanks with some disengage/all in support,only poke support he plays is karma.

Sniper 0Sep 10, 20152 votes

{quoted}

No need, http://lol.esportspedia.com/wiki/LemonNation/Statistics/2015 As you can see his champion pool is completely dominated by tanks with some disengage/all in support,only poke support he plays is karma.

So I notice thresh's pick rate is pretty low compared to other supports. (for lemonnation) lol He has also only been a losing pick for lemon.

50-53% winrate is considered healthy by riot. o.o They've said it before.

manbearswineSep 10, 20152 votes

[{quoted}](name=Holy Arts,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=rqVE9sRH,comment-id=00090000000000000001000100000001,timestamp=2015-09-10T18:46:52.157+0000)

So I notice thresh's pick rate is pretty low compared to other supports. (for lemonnation) lol He has also only been a losing pick for lemon.

Good for him then,I can't say the same for the vast majority of other competitive support players.

50-53% winrate is considered healthy by riot. o.o They've said it before.

No they haven't,health has nothing to do with winrate,and in fact there have been A LOT(and I mean A WHOLE FUCKING LOT) of nerfs to champions below 50% winrate,thresh is clearly op,the winrate excuse is getting very old.

Sniper 0Sep 10, 20151 votes

{quoted}

Good for him then,I can't say the same for the vast majority of other competitive support players.

No they haven't,health has nothing to do with winrate,and in fact there have been A LOT(and I mean A WHOLE FUCKING LOT) of nerfs to champions below 50% winrate,thresh is clearly op,the winrate excuse is getting very old.

Uhmm winrate was the example the op used? Thresh has a loaded kit but he's also loaded with counter play. z.z...

You need to chill. You're acting just like the guys who call vayne, riven or any other champ op. "I hate this champ therefore they're op"

manbearswineSep 10, 20153 votes

[{quoted}](name=Holy Arts,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=rqVE9sRH,comment-id=0009000000000000000100010000000100000000,timestamp=2015-09-10T19:01:44.360+0000)

Uhmm winrate was the example the op used?

I'm guessing op,like everyone else,is completely fed up with this idiotic shit,so he just uses whatever argument he can.

Thresh has a loaded kit but he's also loaded with counter play. z.z...

So are skraner garen and darius,please revert the nerfs to them.

You need to chill. You're acting just like the guys who call vayne, riven or any other champ op. "I hate this champ therefore they're op"

No,this idiotic garbage has been fotm since release,I actually don't hate thresh(I mean I do but I don't),what I do hate is the fact I SEE HIM EVERY FUCKING GAME FOR 3 YEARS NOW,enough already,nerf this joke.

ARequestOfDeathSep 10, 20151 votes

he is easily countered

manbearswineSep 10, 20154 votes

{quoted}

he is easily countered

Yes,that's why pros(and everyone else for that matter) are so comfortable first picking him.

"Let's say completely retarded BS which will somehow makes me look like a good player,cause #logic"

ARequestOfDeathSep 10, 20151 votes

he is super weak against poke supports like Karma Orianna Sona Lulu Ziggs Velkoz

manbearswineSep 10, 20154 votes

{quoted}

he is super weak against poke supports like

Yes,that's why pros(and everyone else for that matter) are so comfortable first picking him.

This is such utter bs I don't even,no he's not weak to poke supports,hell,when poke supports were in the height of their power(back in s3),top 3 support were: sona,zyra and "shockingly" thresh.

But sure thing there buddy,of course they would now of all time counter him,after so many changes that made them all weaker picks in general,now of all times they'll counter him.

Nah,I'm sure you're right,pros are idiots,high elo players are idiots,normal solo q players are idiots,everyone is wrong and noob not to ez counter thresh,the 40% pickrate most played champion in the past few years,only you know how to play the game,I'm sure you are bronze because your teammates drag you down.

ARequestOfDeathSep 11, 20152 votes

i swear every time people bring up the lcs i die a little on the inside. i honestly don't care about the lcs and it isn't that big a deal as riot forces it to be.

The Yetii RiderSep 11, 20152 votes

{quoted}

i swear every time people bring up the lcs i die a little on the inside. i honestly don't care about the lcs and it isn't that big a deal as riot forces it to be.

Sorry that you feel that way, but this particular patch Riot is completely focused on LCS balance. They are making lots of changes aimed directly at the pro players, and I feel like this should be one of them.

The Yetii RiderSep 10, 20152 votes

[{quoted}](name=Slamurai Jack,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=rqVE9sRH,comment-id=0009,timestamp=2015-09-10T04:56:43.859+0000)

Why are we circlejerking about Thresh now?

As I stated. It's the Worlds patch. Riot is balancing exclusively around the competitive scene this time (with a small buff to Ezreal because why not).

My point is not that Thresh is too strong in solo queue. It's that he's too strong in the LCS.

Slamurai JackSep 10, 20153 votes

Too strong in LCS where? All I see in LCS is Alistar , Alistar , and more Alistar .

SociopathFriendSep 10, 20154 votes

I love how nothing whatsoever changes about a champion and they go from "Fine" to "OMG OP this needs nerfed".

HopFroggerSep 10, 20153 votes

Thresh is an example of a very high skill cap champion. There are supports who pick thresh and really don't impact the game whatsoever, and then there are supports who can run the game with their hooks. In that regard, he's similar to Lee Sin.

Both will be kept viable because: