All of Karma's Problems in One Thread

Winterkill··5 votes·1,463 views
  1. Karma doesn't have a streamlined gameplay identity that works in unison with her kit.
  2. Karma doesn't have a unified kit that works together with a gameplay identity that offers skill expression.
  3. Karma doesn't have much skill expression with her basic or Mantra abilities outside of just one use.
  4. Karma's passive is extremely powerful and lackluster, but it feels completely useless because it's actually gated by a cooldown.
  5. Karma's damage is overloaded in one ability to compensate for the fact that she has no other damage in her kit. This makes her extremely annoying to play against.
  6. Karma has utility and sustain on certain abilities that don't belong on it that puts her in roles she shouldn't be in. There is a massive following of players wanting Karma out of top lane.
  7. Certain Mantra abilities exist on other champion kits and item actives which begs the question of, what item or champion does Karma's job better?
  8. Karma has almost no unique abilities or fun mechanics in her kit that makes a player say, "Hey! I want to play Karma because she is unique!" Players only want to play Karma because she is over-tuned.
  9. Karma's thematic is not being properly represented in art or VO.
  10. Karma has incomplete art assets that were never completed and it was rushed.
  11. Karma has complete skin splash-art but horrible in-game models that are not up to par.
  12. And finally, for the past 6 years Riot Game Developers have done nothing on this champion besides back and fourth buffs and nerfs. Riot is doing non-productive work on Karma while saying and acknowledging the type of work she actually needs for 6 years now. In the meantime we have champions like Ryze getting a rework almost every single year, a new champion being prioritized for art and massive kit changes, and three separate Karma communities going at one another because this Development team cannot get their work ethic under control.

We can sit here and go back and fourth with what players want and don't want on Karma. At the end of the day Developers keep saying she needs this and this and this done on her but they keep going back and fourth with buffs and nerfs right after. Riot Game Developers know Karma has art, kit, thematic, and identity problems that they created on her 6 years ago. Where is the same amount of work these Developers keep giving to Ryze every single year and new champions every single year? All this champion has technically received the past 6 years is complete splash-art that doesn't match in game models and a poorly conceptualized running animation that isn't even that great.

13 Comments

Oleandervine4 votes

A lot of these are extremely nit-picky, and the tell-tale sign of someone still butthurt by her VGU. It's time to get over it. You may personally not like Karma, but that does not mean she's not fun or some kind of problem to the game. I personally like her, and I like her simplicity. Not every champion needs to have page tabs on their tool tips to be fun.

Winterkill2 votes

It's actually not not-picky at all. Even Rioters say that there are massive problems with the champion. The refusal to tackle problems with her kit and art is the problem. Flat out, the VGU didn't improve the champion at all. It's 6 years later and Karma sits at a very low play and winrate when something in her kit is not buffed. If a champion has to be buffed to astronomical values and there kit numbers buffed as much as her's has been the past 6 years, there is actual problems with the champion.

I've been playing the champion since season 2 and I can tell you that I don't like playing a champion that has notable problems. There are ways to make the current kit work that makes her better, so players like you can stop commenting on threads without actual constructive feedback. Every champion should feel satisfying and unique to play, and if not, why have them in the game then? If you don't like the champion and don't see the problems, then why make a comment about her then? Riot says there are problems with Karma, but players like you are the real reason why this champion is constantly buffed and then nerfed right after.

How about tackling the problems like: all of her damage being funneled into Mantra Q, the fact that her Mantra W is being abused for the heal, the fact that her Mantra E doesn't have much skill expression and exists on two item actives and other champion kits. Add in the fact that she has no unique gameplay identity and her art problems, you try to convince me why this champion isn't a problem then. The floor is all your, Oleandervine.

Darkdemon6533 votes

If those are her problems, I am now more convinced than ever that she's in a fantastic spot in terms of overall design.

Winterkill1 votes

Until you play against her with a numbers buff and realize she is not fun to play against. I don't know what constructive feedback you want to offer, but why make a comment if you don't actually have a comment?

im small2 votes

Even though I do think her kit fails thematically, I quite like how each of her abilities feel like they're a mish-mash of different ideas. I think right now her biggest gameplay issue is her R+W, a squishy mage character should never be able to regenerate that much health under any circumstance and it's pretty much completely broken Karma top.

I think the best thing Karma could use is an Ezreal tier VGU, as only her passive and W need changes. A new VO and lore would also be great for her, as well as better animations and a slightly more polished model.

Winterkill1 votes

I can settle for that.

Kazekiba1 votes

WAH THIS SUPPORT CHAMP DOESNT DO ANY DAMAGE

Well yeah. Shes not supposed to.

Shes gotten nothing but buffs and nerfs!

As opposed to? Annie and Master Yi are like 10 years old and have received little to 0 mechanical changes or kit overhauls. Twitch is pretty similar to his release save the stealth changes and again, predates Karma by years If its just been buffs or nerfs, thats normal and a sign shes a healthy champion. No one complains about Karma. No one cares about Karma because Supports arent worth caring about at an individual level; the value they bring is present at a team-wide level not individual.

riot said they wanted to change this or this or that

But all those changes ended up being negative impact so they dropped it for now

Because shes FINE.

Jarring1 votes

the slow % on her q was increased. her movespeed duration on her e was increased.

now all of a sudden, this made her "a problem in top lane". I'm guessing it's mostly because of a few people and guides in particular that recommend playing her or people otherwise complaining about her.

Her damage wasn't increased at all. she was simply given more ability to kite.

She was always a viable pick at top lane, and I'm sure there would be just as many complaints about her if the same number of people played tank karma top.

Just losing lane to karma gives reason for people to gripe. Since more people play her now, more people will have their own chances to lose to her. Thus, more complaints, and here we are.

All you're doing is whining that you lost a game because of a Karma. So what. Nothing you've said actually matters. It's all completely BIASED.

Not even gonna get into the huge number of ways to counter her. All it comes down to is that you think her ultimate is BS, particularly in regards to her W.

It's not even that big of a deal early game(which is where most people are having problems). Later on when her passive gets stronger and she gets cdr, she can use her ultimate on W every time it comes off cooldown cuz it procs her passive(which reduces her mantra c/d) both on the initial cast and on the proc of the root. If anything, they could remove the first passive proc on W, but it still wouldn't change much in the long run. I mean, at level 13, she reduces the cooldown of her ultimate by 10 seconds already directly after casting it on the root and AAing just once. every other AA and Q reduces it even further.

I personally like where she's at. I don't really care about the buffs much. I mean they're nice, but I don't care.

And I played much more Tank Karma than a standard AP Karma build. But I also mainly only played her when dominion was still around. I played a lot of dominion in the past, and I primarily played Tank Karma 99% of games. I remember going on 10-13+ winstreaks with her daily in that game mode. I didn't really get a lot of kills most of the time, but I was the win condition every time. I was mainly an unkillable distraction for over half the enemy team, while my team inevitably pushed the rest of the map with their numbers advantage. Only times I'd lose was when the enemy team got smart and only pushed where I wasn't...much like the overpowered enemy servers in Arathi Basin on WoW.

Buff didn't break her. People are only complaining because more people are playing her. Tank karma is and should always be viable.

Winterkill1 votes

She's been a problem every single time she is buffed. Riot nerfs her right after. The Developers even acknowledged more than once she has problems. If they know it then why do players like you keep insisting there are no problems? Do you know all of her basic abilities have been buffed and nerfed more than 6 times each? All of her Mantra abilities (which is actually her main problem) have been buffed and nerfed constantly? The Developers know all of this. They don't want to work on her problems but bring to light other ones. Let's not even talk about her art problems that were never completed.

Jarring1 votes

{quoted}

She's been a problem every single time she is buffed. Riot nerfs her right after. The Developers even acknowledged more than once she has problems. If they know it then why do players like you keep insisting there are no problems? Do you know all of her basic abilities have been buffed and nerfed more than 6 times each? All of her Mantra abilities (which is actually her main problem) have been buffed and nerfed constantly? The Developers know all of this. They don't want to work on her problems but bring to light other ones. Let's not even talk about her art problems that were never completed.

This is the first time she's ever been buffed to the point of becoming one of the best champions in the game.

Discounting legacy karma, all the major changes to her thus far up until the most recent buff have been nerfs. The most recent of which, was the duration of her shield, and further back was the damage on her shield.

There have been very minor buffs to her over the course of her life on LoL, but none of them posed a problem for anyone, much less Riot. Riot: gives huge nerfs to Karma Riot: gives huge nerfs to Karma Riot: gives minor buff to Karma Riot: gives minor buff to Karma Riot: gives minor nerf to Karma Riot: gives minor nerf to Karma Riot: gives minor buff to Karma Riot: gives minor nerf to Karma Riot: gives huge buff to Karma You: Riot buffs and nerfs her right after because they acknowledge she poses a problem. Actuality: Riot gives minor buffs and nerfs to all the champions consistently to keep the game balanced, and actually has nothing to do with the champions kit being broken.

Just because certain champion kits in the game are overloaded and are hard to balance, doesn't mean one champion kit is overloaded as soon as they get sent to the top of the winrate ladder after a huge buff.

She doesn't even have any fucking dashes bruh. The hardest champions to balance in this game all have multiple dashes so that they can easily dodge skill shots as well as land their own. Stuff like Akali, Irelia, Azir.

Winterkill1 votes

Mantra E mega buff that catapulted her into the meta and was the only reason she got a conquer skin? Mantra W three tick that was nerfed? Do you play the game?

Jarring1 votes

{quoted}

Mantra E mega buff that catapulted her into the meta and was the only reason she got a conquer skin? Mantra W three tick that was nerfed? Do you play the game?

you talking about this buff? lol

SHIELD AMOUNT : [30/90/150/210] ⇒ 30/100/170/240 RATIO : [0.3 ability power] ⇒ 0.6 ability power

Mantra W three tick was nothing. I already mentioned if they removed the passive cooldown proc on one of the ticks of W, it would do nothing in the long run, and I'd be fine with it.

That nerf was nothing to Karma players. It's nitpicking at most.

But ok, you got me, she got a "big shield buff" that was initially given to her to make her comparable to other similar supports.

Show me another one of these "big buffs" since Karma is so special.

Also this buff didn't make her "one of the best champions in the game", she wasn't catapulted into the top of the winrate ladder like she is now. They only gave her the conqueror skin because she was the most picked support in LCS and World's.

In solo queue, the buff was still just a minor buff, but I'm not denying that it effected her pick and success rate in the highest of competitive play. This just means that she fit the current meta, and although the buff had something to do with it, it wasn't entirely the buff to her shield that did it. If you know anything about actually playing competitive, you'd know that team composition comes first and foremost to what makes certain champions good picks. Not a single buff to a single ability.

In all honesty, I don't think you have anything noteworthy at all to say any more, and might as well just ignore this nitpicking ragelord that can only whine about things they have no understanding of.

Jarring1 votes

This whole argument against Karma is mainly due to one-tricks on both sides. One-trick top laners are mad at Karma for being able to shut them down because they are too stupid to figure out an optimal build to at least go even or make it so she's not such a threat that just pokes them from afar until they die at their own tower. Not to mention too stubborn to actually pick from a multitude of various types of champions that can easily counter her in top lane. Support Karmas are mad that their champion is being banned by top laners who don't want to play against her. In the end, all this is is one-tricks complaining about a bunch of one-tricks, and it's fucking hypocrisy.

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