@Meddler

Kaisa is Hot·Nov 28, 2016·7 votes·2,540 views

Has Riot ever thought of giving extra IP/LP gains based on rank? I think it would be the BEST incentive not to troll and make mistakes over and over again, but instead learn and say, hey, we will win this game but since I did pretty bad I won't be getting much of a reward, next time I will have to not make those stupid mistakes, and do better. Or it would be like, hey we lost but at least I tried to do/contribute something to win.

E.G. A-A+: 2-3LP 25-45 IP S-S+: 3-6LP 50-100 IP

I guess it would dampen the loss if you were to lose and get one of these ranks, and it would boost the win. Idk just an idea to throw out there, reward individual and team gameplay, not just one.

17 Comments

RiotMeddlerNov 28, 201616 votes

It's been brought up. The concern we have with anything that modifies LP gain/loss that isn't 'your team won/didn't win' is that it can distort player behavior in game at the expense of their team. At present if you're trying to maximize your odds of gaining LP the best thing you can do is whatever increases your team's chances of winning the most. If you add LP incentives to personal champion grades however you end up with some situations where players are encouraged to try and maximize their grade at the expense of their team. That leads to cases like players refusing to defend because they think the game's already over and they don't want to get any more deaths, players farming to try and increase their CS for grade purposes instead of just winning the game, players going for repeated kills on weak enemy champs instead of just taking an objective etc.

DarkRitualNov 28, 20161 votes

What about something like Blue Essence. A small amount of course. As it stands now, you get tokens for high mastery grades, but only if you're level 5/6 with them already. Some blue essence would provide a little bonus when you perform well when on a champ you don't have a high mastery on, as well as a small bonus for champs you already have maxxed out. It would feel better to be able to unlock mastery 6/7 by CONTINUALLY doing well, instead of just playing and dumping IP into random champ tokens for the essence.

StephenizgodNov 28, 20162 votes

Players already do this though, they don't want to ruin their KDA or they just want to boost their CS before the game is over so they can say "hey I did good but my teammates are trash" or perhaps they just need to get that last S/S+ and don't really care if they win or lose.

I agree that its not a good idea to give players more LP (or reduce the amount they lose) based on their Mastery Score, because that seems to only judge the stats, not your actual contribution to the team. Just because someone goes 8/0/10 doesn't mean they did more than the 1/10/16 Support. However it does feel bad to lose a game because another lane feeds the wrong person and you are not capable of stopping them anymore. It feels bad to be the lane that loses the game, you know that if you were someone else perhaps your team might have won.

So I can understand the desire for their to be LP gain/loss based on performance. Are you guys actively thinking on this or have you guys just decided it isn't ever going to happen, end of story?

LongHair FoxNov 28, 20161 votes

It is a noble idea but cases like Overwatch really highlights the cons of a systems like this.

patmax17Nov 29, 20161 votes

Hi!

I played OW very little, but this is of interest to me: would you mind explaining what the problems with OW's system are? (or find a link where I can read it up)

Thank you!

[slayer-jinx-catface]

LongHair FoxNov 29, 20162 votes

TL;DR does not provide any insight so here goes: During the beginning of the ranked queue there were already some pro teams and IIRC cloud9 was regarded as one of the better of not the best team in the west. So when ranked came out they all hopped on it and played all their matches together. After some time their best player was rank 76 (or 75 can't remember) which corresponded o the top of our challenger. The other team members where close behind with the lowest being 72 I think it was. Except for their support. He was at 65 corresponding to mid gold, maybe low plat if you are generous. It mainly happened because supports in overwatch does not deal a lot of damage and only really shine in difficult matches since that is the opportunity they get to heal a lot. So every time they lost he lost less rank but every time they won he also got less to some matches where he hardly got anything since his team just stomped the enemy.

You could argue that our supports are not as dedicated healers but we still got soraka who will likely suffer the same fate. To a lesser extend the same could be applied to all supports meaning that even less players will want to play that role. Furthermore the grading system riot has already makes people do weird things like farming a lane instead of grouping and winning and this is just going to amplify it even more, especially if the player think the game is lost.

patmax17Nov 30, 20161 votes

oh, thanks for the explaination! ^_^

Kaisa is HotNov 29, 20161 votes

{quoted}

Players already do this though, they don't want to ruin their KDA or they just want to boost their CS before the game is over so they can say "hey I did good but my teammates are trash" or perhaps they just need to get that last S/S+ and don't really care if they win or lose.

I agree that its not a good idea to give players more LP (or reduce the amount they lose) based on their Mastery Score, because that seems to only judge the stats, not your actual contribution to the team. Just because someone goes 8/0/10 doesn't mean they did more than the 1/10/16 Support. However it does feel bad to lose a game because another lane feeds the wrong person and you are not capable of stopping them anymore. It feels bad to be the lane that loses the game, you know that if you were someone else perhaps your team might have won.

So I can understand the desire for their to be LP gain/loss based on performance. Are you guys actively thinking on this or have you guys just decided it isn't ever going to happen, end of story?

There can be other things factored into grade tho or added per say, time spent in combat with enemy champions, time spent OUTSIDE of fountain where people are vulnerable and can't protect their KDA for the sake of a better grade. I mean there are adjustments to be made to my current suggestion

GixiaNov 28, 20162 votes

Have you guys considered maybe changing up how Mastery is graded then? Because you could very easily make the argument that, if typing IP gains to Mastery might result in people playing suboptimally to boost their Mastery score, well... Don't requiring S ranks for Mastery Rank 6 and 7 already do that exact same thing?

QuephaNov 28, 20163 votes

Another issue is that support-type gameplay is much harder to automatically evaluate as good, so people that play supports tend to climb more slowly even if they're winning games and fewer people play supports when supports are already in high demand. Overwatch runs into this with their comp system.

AMYS GRAVENov 28, 20161 votes

The concern we have with anything that modifies LP gain/loss that isn't 'your team won/didn't win' is that it can distort player behavior in game at the expense of their team.

I mean, hextech crafting already does this by encouraging you to get your S grade over the overall success of the team in order to earn your chests. This is already happening....

astralwitDec 1, 20161 votes

{quoted}

It's been brought up. The concern we have with anything that modifies LP gain/loss that isn't 'your team won/didn't win' is that it can distort player behavior in game at the expense of their team. At present if you're trying to maximize your odds of gaining LP the best thing you can do is whatever increases your team's chances of winning the most. If you add LP incentives to personal champion grades however you end up with some situations where players are encouraged to try and maximize their grade at the expense of their team. That leads to cases like players refusing to defend because they think the game's already over and they don't want to get any more deaths, players farming to try and increase their CS for grade purposes instead of just winning the game, players going for repeated kills on weak enemy champs instead of just taking an objective etc.

Yes, it's one of the worst possible ideas even if the grading system was flawless. It's also nonsense because games are won or lost at certain inflection points. You can CS like a pro and play perfectly for 35 minutes but if you use Ezreal's E to jump into 3 hoping to snipe a kill and lose a late game fight, it's all for naught. Grades are mostly about your average performance and don't reflect decision making very well. Such systems exist only as tools to understand the game in other sports or for curiosity - never for changing outcomes.

ClôudeDec 1, 20161 votes

You already have this happening. Maybe fix the mastery grading system? Perhaps make it (and maybe it already is) a lot easier to get a higher grade if you win; like winning bumps your grade up from an A+ to an S- or S. I hate when I absolutely smash an opponent yet since I sacrificed myself for a good team-fight or two I lose my chance for the grade I need.

Zero Skill TankNov 28, 20161 votes

Definitely not LP. LP system is already needlessly forgiving, and all this "bonus LP" would need to be equalized by higher LP loss anyway, because it would put players too high relative to their MMR.

IP, maybe, if grade actually reflected how well you do in the game. Right now, when the easiest way to get "S" is to troll by playing a champion in off position, or building a tank full damage, it's not an option as well.

Kaisa is HotNov 28, 20161 votes

{quoted}

Definitely not LP. LP system is already needlessly forgiving, and all this "bonus LP" would need to be equalized by higher LP loss anyway, because it would put players too high relative to their MMR.

IP, maybe, if grade actually reflected how well you do in the game. Right now, when the easiest way to get "S" is to troll by playing a champion in off position, or building a tank full damage, it's not an option as well.

Hmm true I guess, but it wouldn't give much incentive if it were just IP, maybe like a roll the dice system, 1/3 chance to get a skin shard towards the skin of your choice when getting an S or S+ 10 shards for a normal skin. I still find it hard to get those two, even on my mains. So many things are taken into factor with grades.

Zero Skill TankNov 28, 20161 votes

I don't think you read me. The easiest way to get an "S" right now is to play something stupid like full AP Nautilus mid. No way Rito should start rewarding people for that.

Sire HippingtonNov 28, 20161 votes

Not a good idea, the grades are more like a fun gimick and don't really reflect how well some one played. In a complex game like lol, it's not really possible to getty anymore than very rough estimations on playerperformance in any single match. There are to many factors other than the single player.