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For such a long CD, bards shrines are really... underwhelming...

Xemeron··31 votes·1,288 views

Not really sure if I like Bard or wasted 6300 IP by now, but overall, I feel like his W is kinda... super weak.

Dont know... even if they are charged (which is basicly just Riots way of saying "This spell actually has a 22s CD, but we hope you are too stupid to notice"), they dont feel like having any impact.

I know, I know, heals are hated, but then... cant we do something else with them? Right now its a spell thats maybe helpfull for your hjungler, but other than that, Is weak. aven at max level, the spell only heals for 150+.2AP... (and no, I dont count the 10s in that, because after laning phase you will NEVER be able to set them 10 seconds in advance!) Thats litteraly 40 base heal below Sonas 2 people heal which also gives a shield on top of it... (same AP ratio).

Cant we do something about them? How about if casted directly on an allie, it gives the speed + a shield based on the charged shrine heal instead of heal? Or maybe make the min heal go 5% closer to max heal for... dont know, every 5 stacks on his passive? So early game, his shrines still cant heal much, but they become more usefull lategame...

35 Comments

luckmallory7 votes

His shrines are pretty op in laning phase so its hard to buff them.

Bard continuously sets up shrines under tower

ADC just grabs one when he needs it.

Never needs to back

Xemeron1 votes

{quoted}

His shrines are pretty op in laning phase so its hard to buff them.

Bard continuously sets up shrines under tower

ADC just grabs one when he needs it.

Never needs to back

Then how about the way where his passive stacks empower it?

The Sword Saint6 votes

Maybe the shrines could also give mana, or maybe if you put 3 of them in a small touching triangle, illuminati is confirmed and all 3 heal for triple power

Xemeron1 votes

[{quoted}](name=The Sword Saint,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=roHd5THT,comment-id=00000001,timestamp=2015-09-21T16:21:15.645+0000)

I'd rather the shrines also gave mana then a bigger heal.

Nah, that would be op. Think about it, the ADC would never have to leave lane... Mana and heal restoration should NEVER be on the same champion

The Sword Saint1 votes

Hey don't put words in my mouth :o

Xemeron1 votes

[{quoted}](name=The Sword Saint,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=roHd5THT,comment-id=0000000100000000,timestamp=2015-09-21T16:23:08.681+0000)

Hey don't put words in my mouth :o

Guess I quoted you too fast^^ Still, my point stays, Mana resoration and Healing shouldnt be on the same champion ever. You forgot how boring laning against a Soraka was when she could give mana?

The Sword Saint1 votes

I remember that is was a very satisfying mechanic on the end of the soraka's side of the lane. It felt very peaceful and relaxing because if you refused to hard engage on the enemy and played peacefully in lane farming minions, you couldn't be killed unless you really mispositioned.

It would fit bards 'caretaker' nature, and it would aid the theme of the shrines being some sort of 'power of the cosmos'.

Funnily, soraka was a 'starchild' and she use to give mana - you'd think essentially the ultimate 'of the stars' being that bard is would be even better with mana.

IcyPepper1 votes

Funnily, soraka was a 'starchild' and she use to give mana - you'd think essentially the ultimate 'of the stars' being that bard is would be even better with mana.

Bard also takes away fun toys from children who shouldn't use them. Didn't you watch the video? Bard confirmed for reworking Soraka.

MCBiggah991 votes

The shrine should deal %maxHP true damage when enemies step on it

Kappa

luckmallory1 votes

They can't give mana. Soraka got this taken away for a reason

Zorae422 votes

{quoted}

I know, I know, heals are hated, but then... cant we do something else with them? Right now its a spell thats maybe helpfull for your hjungler, but other than that, Is weak. aven at max level, the spell only heals for 150+.2AP... (and no, I dont count the 10s in that, because after laning phase you will NEVER be able to set them 10 seconds in advance!) Thats litteraly 40 base heal below Sonas 2 people heal which also gives a shield on top of it... (same AP ratio)

What? Sona heals for 165+30% if her target was somehow at 1% health left (110+20% for someone at full health). And it's not 2 targets, it's herself and the most hurt person within range (so it'll auto target a tank at 40% rather than the ADC at 45%...). The shield only affects people really close to her, and lasts 1.5 seconds, which is really really short and hardly ever helps anyone.

So lets pick someone who isn't the worst at healing, like Nami. Hers heals for 185+30%AP. Only 35 more base healing than Bard. And that's only if she targets an ally first. Plus, it costs 130mana, more than most ults...

Bard's shrines are fine. At max charge, they almost heal as much as a Soraka W, and also gives a pretty decent MS boost with his heal. If the max amount was more accessible or the minimum approached it, Bard would be horribly OP

Tails Doll2 votes

OP has a point, past lanining face his W is only usefull for a speed boost or a clunch heal. It's better to lvl E first for the CD and speed boost, making it easier for him to get his meeps.

Borbland1 votes

"It's only useful for the speed boost"

Exactly. And it's fine as so.

Tails Doll1 votes

Not really, why have a skill that feels underwhelming at most stages of the game. Hell, even the heal is mediocre at best lvl 1, and you dont lvl up W first since lvling up Q gives you dmg and CC. His E or W need to be 1 point wonder, and I'll rather it be W, since E is his most iconic skill.

Borbland1 votes

Personnaly, I play Bard alot since he was released, and I can garantee you, as also a big player of Soraka and Sona (sometimes Nami), that his heal isnt underpowered AT ALL.

People tend to forget that he has high mana costs, but extremly high mana regen. You get 24% of your mana spawning every 50 sec somewhere on the map, you leave some shrines, you come back with nearly full mana with regen + all the chimes.

And late game, yes the healing is mediocre. But it's definitly not the priority. Nearly all healers have their heals losing power late game (Except for Soraka, but her entiere gameplay is based on that), Sona late game relies more on her shield than her heal, Nami is still ok, but still less important than in laning phase.

Bard's shrine with fairly low cooldown and good MS boost still remains powerful, buffing it too much will make him too good, he is already extremly powerful with a good adc (Never played in SoloQ cause you never know what you have to support)

DemaciaClown2 votes

{quoted}

(which is basicly just Riots way of saying "This spell actually has a 22s CD, but we hope you are too stupid to notice")

I've been wanting to use this gif, and this situation seems suitable enough. (12 sec cd) http://www.reactiongifs.us/wp-content/uploads/2014/07/op_liar_the_walking_dead.gif

Tails Doll2 votes

It needs 10 seg to charge, so if you want max heal effect then the CD is indeed 22s.

DemaciaClown1 votes

But, but what's the support that doesn't take atleast 5% cdr ;_;

IcyPepper1 votes

Even if you use the cdr (which is case by case, you're not expected to get 40% on ADC's or something) argument, Bard's charge up time won't be reduced.

And 5%... uh, it would make his W a 11.4 cooldown and 21.4 seconds if you count the charge. Not much :c At max cdr it'll be at 7.2 seconds (much better!) but will require 17.2 seconds to be at full charge (which, to be fair, you'll have two more shrines at that point).

DemaciaClown1 votes

I just wanted to use the gif :)

Space Bum2 votes

I'm up to 75k mastery on Bard and I'd say they are fine. The fact that they are something that can be readily available without you being anywhere near the player that may use them is kind of op.

Bard is not a "heavy" sustain support and that is OK because frankly I think he would be completely broken if they added that to his kit.

Late game the speed boost is the most useful thing about the shrine and harbinger does add a little boost to his healing. Bards strength is in play making and I feel that should be any Bard players focus, not analog sustain supporting...

Poop Jelly1 votes

I think Bard's laning phase is solid now. It's true that his healing shrines' power isn't as great as most healing abilities, but given the fact that he can stack them up, and leave lane for mana & exp regen, I think his heal is fair. I would think that the healing shrine is almost useless in teamfight, yes. Though, Bard's Q, E, and R are excellent tools for teamfights both engaging and escaping. Going thru the enemy Bard's magical journey is frightening, man.

Space Bum1 votes

I've got a couple hundred Bard games played. Whenever I face one, I go around the journey.

The Sword Saint1 votes

How about collecting meeps upgrades the shrine too?

Xemeron1 votes

huh... sry, somehow I got wrong numbers on Sona...dont know how... Ok, I give it, its my bad^^ I totaly fucked up that Sona part...

Still... the spell is underwhelming

WarlockLaw1 votes

They just need to make them scale a little better into late game. Best proposed change I've seen is make the charge up time scale down per level, so that they could charge up in like 2 seconds late game.

Audiomancy1 votes

A nice addition would be making it so that each 5 Passive Stacks add a small %Max or %Missing HP Heal. Only about 1% per 5 Chimes or something, and only at full charge.

Silents4291 votes

How many champions can place 3 stationary healing spots?

0

It may not heal an insane amount but this is more powerful then anyone is willing to actually think about, if his W needs any buffs I would turn his W into a charge system while preventing you from directly using the heal on the same target within a certain duration, letting him place down 3 shrines quickly.

Borbland1 votes

Actually, the shrines are really good, since the heal gets really strong after the 10s in laning phase, and you can stack them. Mana cost isnt too much of an issue thanks to the chimes giving tons of mana back.

Late game, the heal is weak, but it's still enough powerful to partially counter some ignite on someone, and mostly, it gives the big MS boost that everyone that havent played Bard alot tends to forget. That MS boost is extremly powerful late game.

Also, I don't know what you smoked, because the CD from the shrines is 12 seconds at any level, which is alot less then the 22 seconds that you anounced

EDIT: Oh you included the charge time. Well, while one charges, the CD reduces, so when one is charged, you have 2 secs CD before placing the next. Also, 22 sec for a heal someone can pick up at any time that is pretty powerful and gives a MS boost, I dont know what you are complaining about.

TheSlogs1 votes

Early game they are op, and if you take them at lvl 1 you can have your jungler take another two whole camps because of the heals, and in lane your adc just has to walk back to a shrine to be fine. But late game it's less effective than a Kayle heal.

Space Bum1 votes

OR you start Q, tank a hit or two then stun the camp, saving your Jungler just as much health and start with one of the strongest level 1 abilities in the game....

FakeGravity1 votes

Just make bard minimun heal either get close to the max one or remove the ap ratio and make it scale with chimes

Actually xPeke1 votes

To be honest, it's pretty hard to balance his shrines. In laning phase they are extremely good but outside not

Helmight1 votes

I feel like Bard shrines are only good if he lets them charge, which makes the immediate use-case incredibly unsatisfying. A simple buff to their minimum heal would be an excellent change that makes both use cases of the ability good, but which still incentivizes setting them in safe areas and letting them charge.

macromite1 votes

so you need to git gud?

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