Boards›Gameplay

@RIOT: Please, just make runes free

Xemeron·Aug 29, 2015·442 votes·16,138 views

Runes are a very important part of the game. You need them for every champion, most times you even need different rune sets for the same champ, depending on where you play, against who you play, etc.

Looking such a basic part of the game behind a wall is not helping the game at all. Its especialy hard for new players. New players who come to this game want to get some champs, but they have to buy at least 3 sets of runes, meaning basicly every bit of IP they farm until Level 30 will go just for runes.

And I didnt even start about the noob trap that is Tier 1 and Tier 2 runes. These basicly trap new players into wasting IP, which is then lost forever.

Runes can only be bought for IP, so there is no money to get for you, so thats also no argument to keep them locked away. you just need way too much. Just count the amount of IP you need for a single page: Marks: 9x410 Seals: 9x410 Glyphs: 9x410 Quints: 3x1025

Full set: 14.145

A win gives only about 80-90 (lets say 85) IP for an average game. Even saying that you win 100% of all games, that still means 167 games for ONE set of runes... Since you wont win all, its more like 200.

200 games. For something you NEED to actually play the game right. 200 games where you cant get a single new champion.

Not even taking the lost IP for Tier 1 and 2 runes into account. Not taking the runes into account new players buy before knowing that they need totaly different runes. To be honest, if I would start the game today, between the community and this wall, I would quit.

And NO, i dont want my IP back. I bought mine, I spend my time, but this isnt about me.

Please RIOT, do the right thing and get rid of this stupid limitation. Give players the chance to play the game right. Please.

EDIT: Found a Stonewall Video, he seems to be on my side^^ https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1t82zaa8JEI

233 Comments

DalthineAug 29, 201595 votes

As someone who has just over 100,000 IP worth of runes, I totally wouldn't care if that IP wound up "wasted" by making all of them free. The entire game gets better as a whole by making them free.

Side note: at having spent that much, I only have about 1/4 of all of the tier 3 runes.

Nameless VoiceAug 29, 201519 votes

I was going to post pretty much the same thing.

I wouldn't mind losing all the IP I've spent on runes to make the game better.

(Then again, I own every champion and have no use for the IP anyway, so I may be biased.)

SgtHorseAug 30, 20152 votes

I dont own every champ, but i do own champs that i dont use so the runes being free probably wont affect players at my stage.

Dar RaksadaAug 29, 20155 votes

{quoted}

As someone who has just over 100,000 IP worth of runes, I totally wouldn't care if that IP wound up "wasted" by making all of them free. The entire game gets better as a whole by making them free.

Side note: at having spent that much, I only have about 1/4 of all of the tier 3 runes.

same. Not sure how much I spent, But I have basically all tier 3 runes I will ever use, including some I won't be using anymore (a few crit chance runes, health runes etc.). I got the benefit of those runes for ages and I really wouldn't mind all runes being free without being refunded anything. It'd be best if they also made rune pages free, but because you could buy those with rp I can see people getting mad over it.

The EcdysiastAug 30, 20159 votes

The people who bought pages with RP should have that refunded. Runes should be treated like masteries because both have an actual effect on gameplay.

Zenthon PrimeAug 30, 20152 votes

Eh, I'm fine with rune pages having to be unlocked. You only need 2 to be competitive at low elo with 90% of champions, and maybe 3-4 as you move up depending on your tastes.

The EcdysiastAug 30, 20156 votes

While you may only need two to be competitive, the fact you can't change rune pages at all during champ select is a huge problem if you want to play with a different style. They should be free. Buying enough runes to fill a page costs upwards of 9000 IP. Making the runepage cost as much as a new champion is way overboard.

Zenthon PrimeAug 30, 20153 votes

Remember, the suggested change would make runes free. Keep that in mind when responding.

And if you could change rune pages in champ select you'd never have to buy pages lol.

The EcdysiastAug 30, 20154 votes

Exactly. They're making you pay for things that are actually essential to playing during the first ten minutes.

Zenthon PrimeAug 30, 20152 votes

My point is that if runes were free rune pages costing as much as a new champ wouldn't be a real issue, because you're already only gonna need to buy at max 3 of them until the upper ELOs.

The EcdysiastAug 30, 20154 votes

If runes become free, I better get the 20,000 I spent on them back so I can buy rune pages.

Mister SunglowAug 30, 20156 votes

I think they shouldn't make Rune Pages free - but - make the actual Runes (Marks/Glyphs/Seals/Quints) free. This way they could still steal your money, but you could get to mix and match until you like your Rune Page. Plus, starting players could actually have good Tank or AP or AD setup.

TurquoiseYoshiAug 29, 201538 votes

When I have to choose between getting 3 champions and getting a PAGE for runes, and then the actual runes, I think there's a problem.

TheVishualAug 29, 201537 votes

{quoted}

Runes can only be bought for IP, so there is no money to get for you, so thats also no argument to keep them locked away

Riot wants you to spend your IP on runes so you get impatient and use your $$$ to unlock champions/buy extra rune pages... This is why runes will never be free; its part of the business model

CavemanteroAug 30, 20155 votes

{quoted}

Riot wants you to spend your IP on runes so you get impatient and use your $$$ to unlock champions/buy extra rune pages... This is why runes will never be free; its part of the business model

And its a bad business model and unnecessary one. Early on it might have been important but please....spare us the 'game companies need to make every dime they can argument...' on this one. Anyone with common sense would see that it would benefit the game more than hurt the $$$ coming in.

PunkkeeAug 30, 20155 votes

give riot some credit. without ways of income we wont have a game to bitch about

RrettAug 30, 20155 votes

yeah but you see things like them making 1billion in profit and you kind of wonder.

HadesBladesAug 30, 20159 votes

Too bad it's not Net Profit the profit riot made actually goes into maintaining the multiple servers they have world wide. There is a EUE, EUW, NA, BR, OCE,KR, etc servers that have to be constantly watched and monitored by a staff. There are multiple teams that spend countless hours into creating content, like skins, modes, champs, lore etc. And they also have other channels like all chat, and video content :P. Then we haven't even talked taxes, or other governmental regulations. It shouldn't make you wonder really, Riot runs an efficient business that people pay into so that they (riot) will continue to preserve/enhance this game.

RrettAug 30, 20152 votes

I did some very rough estimations, and even giving 2000 employed 200k a year, and then 200 million for server costs, 50 million for LCS, There's still a lot more left in 1 billion.

I used generous numbers as well, and can't even come close to 1 billion. I do wonder where all the money is going.

Riot runs an efficient business

No, this has been debunked countless times. You realize dota 2 team has 30~ members on it's team, and they managed to get a completely recoded client, replays, sandbox mode, and a lot more out in half the time it took riot to even give a sinlge half finished Client VU, you start to understand Riot is under absolutely no circumstance an efficient work force.

Ayame IsakiAug 31, 20153 votes

DoTa is owned by Valve and has Valve's corporate and technological infrastructure. Riot is its own company, paying everyone from HR to Network Operations directly.

GaddafiAug 31, 20152 votes

Well said m8, people rather start bash and blame riot's 'rich' ass but they overlook the fact LoL is everyday used worldwide product which takes effort and many work hours to be efficient and stay healthy.

MasterVidallisAug 30, 20155 votes

Except that most of their money comes from selling skins to veteran players, not from new players buying champs. And because that first part is true they have a high incentive to have their experienced player base be as large as possible. Putting in barriers that make it difficult for new players to get into the game is counter to that.

Trust me, I have some friends trying to learn the game right now, and their overwhelming attitude about the rune IP treadmill is that it's fucking annoying and makes the game less fun. That's a good way to keep people around.

A LiberalAug 29, 201528 votes

Forward: I know I will be flamed and called stupid, noob, styrofoam 5, troll, ECT for this comment but I play this game for fun, not to "be good", so here's my spin:

I am a pretty recent player and am currently silver 5. I played my placements and a couple ranked games before I stopped because the flaming for not having runes was so bad. People would elophant me (who even does that in as low of elo as I am in?) and literally say gg never noob before the game even started. So what did I do?

I rushed out and spent all the money I had been saving for the newest champion (Bard, my lord and savior) to buy a set of tier two runes for Anivia, my main at the time. Needless to say, I regret the decision.

I am the type of player that would rather have a wde range of experiences in games (aka champs), than have a limited amount of good experiences, so naturally I don't spend my money on runes, I buy craptons of champions.

If I only play normals that should be okay right?

WRONG

I still get flamed once every five games or so for not having good runes, sometimes even by my own friends. This is forcing me to not enjoy the game as much now because I have to go out and try and build an "all champion" rune page, JUST FOR MY NORMAL GAMES.

In all honesty, I could lose 150% of my games and still love leauge, but the flaming tryhards I get in normal completely ruin this.

I can not imagine what it is like for new players.

I completely support the OP because runes are about customization, much like masteries. The reason I fell in love with this game is because there is no such thing as pay to win, and a level 10 can beat a level 30 if they're better with a champ just because of sheer skill. The rune system gates skill by giving an unfair advantage to those who are willing to make this game a farmfest (the exacts reason I personally could never get into wow or guild wars)

By making the rune system free, and having only additional pages be extra ip, you would remove a lot of frustration related to grinding as well as improve on some of the flaming issues that this game has.(aka [0:35] gg bard no runes ff at 20)

TLDR; As a casual player id rather buy champs not runes, and would rather not get flamed in normal for not spending 100000 hours grinding for something I have no desire for. Make the runes themselves free and the additional pages extra ip.

PS: this was typed on my tiny Nokia Lumia 530 so any formatting or spelling errors I apologize. Also anyone feel free to add me if you want to play some just for fun games.

RogueWillAug 30, 20153 votes

Well just grab 2 general sets and spam them on everything and keep buying champions. Get a basic AP Rune page and a basic AD Rune page and spam them on any champ. It might not be the best set for each individual champ but will stop the flaming.

I think the combos are: For AP: AP Quint. AP Pen Red. Flat Armor Yellow. Flat MR Blue. For AD: AD Quint. AD Red. Flat Armor Yellow. Scaling/Flat MR Blue.

There you have runes for every champ you play.

XemeronAug 29, 201510 votes

Yeah, I think most people wouldnt complain much, of course you always have those who would cry "OMG; I now want my IP back!" but hell, these are the same crying when a cham price gets reduced and RIOT learned to ignore them, and they stoped...

Chromatic EagleAug 29, 20158 votes

Rune pages should be free. Runes could be cheaper. Anything that improves your performance should be bought with IP or be free.

Ayame IsakiAug 31, 20152 votes

Runes and rune pages are bought with IP. Run pages I think can be bought with RP as well, but not runes.

The EcdysiastAug 30, 20158 votes

The problem is that they say LoL isn't pay to win, but the 20 hours you have to spend playing to fill a rune page, and 20 more you need to buy even one more page, you might as well have just paid money.

Mintymentos NAAug 30, 20154 votes

You can buy runepages for 6300 and noobs don't need a lot of runepages.

The free ones you acquire are enough.

... Lol and this game is not even close to p2w. Stop being lazy, play normals, arams, earn ip buy the runes.

Plus this week you get extra IP for playing with friends.

No excuses.

KatCraftAug 30, 20159 votes

Lazy? Lol since when is playing a game supposed to be considered a chore? The lp system is heavily flawed and brings nothing positive to the game, it has nothing to do with being Lazy or not.

For CarthageAug 30, 20156 votes

Considering that back when I was a new player runes were the thing that made me question if I even wanted to continue playing, I whole-heartedly agree.

It wasn't even the toxicity. Going on the Internet and not expecting as much is silly. But playing a game that says, "Hey, you know those things that're supposed to spice up gameplay and make it fun? Yeah, instead of getting anything like that, get these things that offer almost minimal increases that you only really notice if you don't have them, are tediously expensive, and make you feel like you're not really earning anything at all" is just... no.

MrSexyHoboAug 30, 20155 votes

I hear some people say that rune pages don't have that much effect on games (as long as you have some general runes) and thats just simply not true. One of my favorite things to do is take wukong with a rune page that has around 12 ad and 25 armor against an ad assassin mid such as talon or zed because 80% of the time you can all in them at lvl 1 and kill them. Just because i invested an extra 15000ip in a rune page and special runes i get a tactical advantage over my opponent in a game that prides itself on giving players an even playing field. If runepages and runes were free the other player would have at least had the opportunity to prepare for the matchup. That way when i destroy the guy who brings scaling mr blues to a lane with all ad it will be because he made a strategic trade off (power later vs power in lane) and not because he is too poor to afford anything else.

LeeerzeichenAug 29, 20154 votes

tier 1 or 2 runes are not useless, because they are extremely ip efficient. I bought 2 tier 1 rune sets right after their price got reduced. 4 days later I hit lvl 20 and bought 4 tier 3 rune sets for around 13000 ip during the 30% sale. They were still worth, because I payed like 200 ip. Thats a single "lost" game. I would always buy tier 1 runes, even for 2 games.

TurquoiseYoshiAug 30, 201517 votes

But have you ever used your Tier 1 runes since then? Will you ever find any use for them? Or will they sit in your rune inventory, doing jack squat? Riot should at least give you the option to upgrade them/sell them for a lower price/burn them in a fire so you don't have to look at them.

Sona PingAug 30, 20151 votes

But that doesn't matter because those runes aren't for either of you anymore! Tier 1 and Tier 2 currently serve as an excellent measure for mitigating some of the already large disadvantage that new players have when they are matched with players with more playtime. The game is improved for a section of the player-base by their addition with no drawbacks for the rest.

TurquoiseYoshiAug 30, 20151 votes

And is there any reason why Tier 3 runes cannot be available from the start?

Sona PingSep 1, 20152 votes

That's a separate issue, it's a different aspect unassociated with the existence and role of Tier 1&2 Runes.

But yes, there is one. It functions as another progression step in a free-to-play secondary progression system, which in League is Runes.

PunkkeeAug 30, 20151 votes

i know he's getting downvoted but he brings an interesting idea. if tier 1&2 runes can boost the winrate of you, the IP you get from the increase winrate should pay back the rune cost and even more ip being more cost efficient right? (im guessing) if not i guess we should at least make tier 1&2 runes free?

MyozthirirnAug 31, 20152 votes

T1 runes cost 5 ip each (15 for quins), thats almost free

67chromeAug 29, 20154 votes

Please, just make runes free

I like that runes are there to make IP mean something and you have to work for them, gives IP gains a continuous use.

That said -T2 runes should just be free, and T1 shouldn't even be in the game.

With free runes, you'd at least give players emergency rune pages, or rune pages to test the waters of jungling or playing a new lane position with a champion they're trying out on the free week.

TyaldanAug 30, 20154 votes

I dont mind paying for runes, but i think if you hit champ mastery 5, or whatever level the final one ends up being, you get a free runepage. For that champ only. You can only select it when playing that champ so it doesnt clutter up the rest of the rune pages. That way you can have a versatile roster and be able to have a page for each champ, and use the first two as either general ones for champs that havent hit top mastery yet or extras for your favorite champ.

ArmoredAug 30, 20154 votes

I have been playing League of Legends from when it first released and on and off the last 2 years. I still do not own 1/4th of the top teir runes. I spend my IP on unlocking new champions and my RP for the skins for said champions. I gimp myself by not buying runes as i should, however i feel more happy with unlocking new champions then spending a butt load of IP on runes.

I think runes should be free or a LOT less IP per rune.

Tier 1 Runes: 3 IP ea. Tier 2 Runes: 10 IP ea. Tier 3 Runes: 35 IP ea.

Tier 1 Q's: 5 Tier 2 Q's: 50 Tier 3 Q's: 100

Jarrito232Aug 29, 20153 votes

Note that you can use runes on multiple pages, and many runes pages have overlapping runes. Plus you didn't factor in 150+ ip for win of the day. You also didn't look at rune sales during preseason, or party IP weekends, which I'm using to farm IP.

GaddafiAug 31, 20153 votes

But that would remove the feeling of progression and actually wise investment of hard earned IP.

That is ( along with unlocking champs and new mastery system ) what keeps me playing this game the most. I have almost every rune, enough rune pages and almost 100 champs which was all bought with IP and it took time.

Why would you want free runes? Do people want to make this game so easy that it will became boring? Complains about 'op' champs ruined many champs in this game and now you want to run core of the game with making everything too easily available?

Please, no. I think that for many people it's this feeling of progression and earning to buy your things is what makes them play.

ShénzhìAug 31, 20152 votes

his progression for Runes has done is kept an amount of players playing the game longer, I think. Now there's a world-wide playerbase, they can make all Runes free. Shouldn't be a problem...

#Free the Runes! While it doesn't address the many inconsistencies it will at least alleviate the stress from them.

#Free the Rune Pages! Probably will not happen since they have a shit refund policy.

ßaja BlastAug 31, 20152 votes

Here's an idea:

-Start players with some standard tier 1 runes (ad red, armor yellows, etc.) -Start players with more than 2 rune pages (4? 5?) -Implement an upgrade system where runes become cheaper as you go from T1 to T3 -Once you get the next tier of a type of rune, the previous one will be replaced

This way you aren't entirely IP gated and newer players will interact with their rune pages more to allow more customization. I think its necessary to, at the very least, allow players to look at which runes it is they want to have instead of throwing every single one at them and making them decide what to put in their rune pages. That can be extremely overwhelming for somebody new to a game like LoL.

CansemaAug 31, 20152 votes

if you want to complain about smurfs one day.. then want runes free the next... the runes actually slow smurfs down .. granted a person can do well without runes..

and you dont need all the runes.. there is only a handful that you actually should build your pages around.. i have 16 pages right now.. i have 4 that i havent even put runes on them.. i only really use 6 pages total when i play. and out of those 6... really there isnt much change between the pages.. there is AP or AD .. Verses AD or AP or glass cannon.

gl on the post

TyroneWatermelonSep 1, 20152 votes

Protip:when you put "riot please" and "free" Riot usually never show up

RainofBlackTearsSep 17, 20152 votes

Well.. they are making a cost reduction...

A step in the right direction, and it adds up over those many runes bought.

More from Gameplay

3 Refunds per season, upvote if you want 3 refunds per season.

GameplayJul 18, 2015764 comments

3 Refunds per season, upvote if you want 3 refunds per season.

GameplaySep 1, 2015156 comments

GameplayApr 1, 2016606 comments

GameplayDec 21, 2014456 comments

3 Refunds per season, up vote if you want 3 refunds per season.

GameplaySep 17, 2015114 comments

When is ANYONE at riot going to address the awful new player experience?

GameplayNov 30, 2014634 comments

More by Xemeron

This ban system is a joke...

[ARCHIVED] MiscellaneousSep 24, 2015184 comments

Please, DO NOT buff Xin Zhao!

GameplayMar 3, 2015109 comments

When the worst Skin becomes the best Skin

Story, Art, & SoundSep 27, 201762 comments

Seriously, Veigar is getting NERFED? After he already lost DFG?

GameplayFeb 15, 2015113 comments

Ok, something is not right with Tango Evelynn...

Story, Art, & SoundSep 28, 2017119 comments

RIOT logic: Garen punching the enemy when he crits makes no sense cause he has a sword

GameplayMar 15, 201562 comments