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Seriously, Veigar is getting NERFED? After he already lost DFG?

Xemeron··113 votes·5,794 views

For those who dont know it yet: http://www.surrenderat20.net/2015/02/213-pbe-update.html

His Q is now a SKILLSHOT! Yes, his main farming ability, he needs to stack AP and stay relevant, on this little slow no mobility champ, is now a Skillshot... Which basicly means byebye harassment, since its easy to hide behind minions from a champ that is slow and has no dash/blink.

His Event Horizon now has a 0.75 s delay where it shows the enemy EXACTLY where its going to come up... Really? Well, thats gg for Veigar in 1v1 and Gank situations. Again, Veigar has NO MOBILITY! He needed that stun to even have a chance against todays "look how I dash instead of walk" junglers. Hes now a sitting duck in lane and he cant even stun incomintg junglers any more... (To compare, thats a delay as long as Cho Gath Q).

And last but not least, his Ultimates AP ratios got nerfed too...

Well done, the little mage was so OP, PIck or Ban in LCS since.... oh wait... But his winrate was so through the roo.... Oh no hes at 48.3%... But thats only because hes picked so muc.... oh, hes basicly never picked?

But well, better him getting a nerf than Lee Sin or Zed, right?

113 Comments

Talamare39 votes

Why would they buff immobile champions?

They don't make LCSBIGPLAYS

Frooster13 votes

Seriously the balance is this game is getting stupid

SephAgro11 votes

Rip: Veigar. Welcome to the League of Acrobats.

Cater11 votes

"counterplay is a bad thing"

Veigar players.

Junkο30 votes

Why can LB do the same thing Veigar can with 2 mobility spells and without needing to afk farm for 30 min then?

Cater8 votes

[{quoted}](name=Hurny Quilva,realm=EUNE,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=aq0NsZPY,comment-id=00020000,timestamp=2015-02-15T11:20:29.371+0000)

Why can LB do the same thing Veigar can with 2 mobility spells and without needing to afk farm for 30 min then?

Because LeBlanc doesn't have a 1025 range instant stun. Veigar loses like every matchup ever pre-6, so he gets pushed in, the ganks with the jungler are cancer with veigar stun. Post-6 he only has to stun you twice to kill you and simply saying not to stay within 1025 range is absurd. Even if you smashed the lil shit into the ground, his ulti scales off of your AP.

Veigar is one of the unfunest champion in the game to play against.

Xemeron23 votes

{quoted}

Because LeBlanc doesn't have a 1025 range instant stun. Veigar loses like every matchup ever pre-6, so he gets pushed in, the ganks with the jungler are cancer with veigar stun. Post-6 he only has to stun you twice to kill you and simply saying not to stay within 1025 range is absurd. Even if you smashed the lil shit into the ground, his ulti scales off of your AP.

Veigar is one of the unfunest champion in the game to play against.

LeBlanc doesnt even need to stun you for that, shes in your face, nukes you down to 10% HP from 100%, and then is back to safety. And does finish the job the second her dash comes of CD again

Cater6 votes

{quoted}

LeBlanc doesnt even need to stun you for that, shes in your face, nukes you down to 10% HP from 100%, and then is back to safety. And does finish the job the second her dash comes of CD again

Whenever LeBlanc wants to do something, you can actually fight back. Veigar just stuns you from 1000 range, walk up, W Q-s you. He does that a second time and you die. While you are stunned you can't fight back. Honestly, everyone despises Veigar because he offers 0 counterplay and I'm happy that Riot does something about it.

Xemeron10 votes

{quoted}

Whenever LeBlanc wants to do something, you can actually fight back. Veigar just stuns you from 1000 range, walk up, W Q-s you. He does that a second time and you die. While you are stunned you can't fight back. Honestly, everyone despises Veigar because he offers 0 counterplay and I'm happy that Riot does something about it.

You mean any counterplay except "Hmmm... hes walking towards me with his stun up, I should maybe step towards him and blow his face up..."

Cater6 votes

{quoted}

You mean any counterplay except "Hmmm... hes walking towards me with his stun up, I should maybe step towards him and blow his face up..."

Yeah because being 1000 range away from your laning opponent at all times is totally possible.

KDragonL5 votes

the only thing Veigar could do at 1000 range was stun you. Dark matter had 900 range and is easier to dodge than a Cho Q. Veigars ult and Q were 650.

Cater4 votes

{quoted}

the only thing Veigar could do at 1000 range was stun you. Dark matter had 900 range and is easier to dodge than a Cho Q. Veigars ult and Q were 650.

Stun you, W hits from 1000 range, walk up, Q you, walk away and he is already at 800 range when you get unstunned. You can't do anything about it.

Bresn4 votes

Do you realized how much BS and sad it is to click on a LB with your ability and have her dash away before you could cast it instead of how NICE it is to survive a Vei combo and beating the crap out of him?

Cater4 votes

{quoted}

Do you realized how much BS and sad it is to click on a LB with your ability and have her dash away before you could cast it instead of how NICE it is to survive a Vei combo and beating the crap out of him?

He stuns you, you lose 40% of your health, then you get unstunned, he is 800 range away probably in the middle of his minions. What do you want, do you want to flash on him and pray that your skillshot is going to somehow dodge the minions and hit Veigar, while all he has to do is to ult, Q ignite you. If LB dashes away, good, you should be happy, she just used her damage spell that she maxes to run away. Meanwhile veigay stuns you, throws his shit on top of you and runs away, and he can kill you next time he is in 1000 range of you and has his E up. OR HE JUST FLASHES ON YOU BECAUSE HE IS SUCH A COOL CHAMP. Kassadin's, Talon's, Lb's silence were all bullshit and I've always been complaining about them how they offer 0 counterplay. Guess what, I've been complaining about Veigar's bullcrap stun(and ultimate) and riot decided that hey, yeah, you know, Veigar's E is pretty cancer with 0 counterplay.

Why don't people understand this. If something his no counterplay, it's toxic and unfun to play against. A champion that offers no counterplay musn't be popular and should be changed asap. Isn't of crying about not being able to land W, people could just realise that wow, landing 1 Q on the opponent results on more damage than stunning my opponent and landing a W. Or wow, Veigar will be able to poke before teamfights, damn. Or he can stick around in the fights when he has 0 hp left because he has range now.

But no, people would rather Q_Q "I can't be cancer anymore and ruin the game for the enemy mid laner"

kokopelli23 votes

If ur maxing lb dash i think there is another problem here lmao

LeeDark5 votes

Oh yea, such cancer, with his abysmal pick rates, 46% win rate, and utter dependence on late game scaling.

gtfo

WooBeeWoo9 votes

He's not an adc so Riot doesn't give a shit if hes sitting around waiting to be killed.

Caezium1 votes

Varus, Miss Fortune and Ashe are ADCs who aren't in particularly good condition.

So it isn't not being an ADC. Just not being someone they like I guess?

lolipopevelynn7 votes

veigar players know that Q turning into a skill shot is a HUGE nerf to his team fight, let alone the E nerf. with Q being a skill shot he can no longer pick and choose who he blows up. front line tanks will always block the Q now, making it very hard to get to that ahri, cait or vayne in the back...

Bodkins Odds3 votes

It hits two targets like Light Binding, but with full damage on both hits instead of a snare. You need two tanks to body block it.

Dank Randy6 votes

His Q is like Lux but doesn't do reduced damage on the 2nd target hit, and the stun.. you guys really dont see the point. YOU CANT PLACE IT DIRECTLY ON TOP OF THEM AND STUN INSTANTLY ANY MORE. It was honestly pretty easy once you get used to the way it works. BUT NOW you have to place it just a tad in front of them. .75 seconds isn't gonna be THAT easy to react to.. Veigar currently can honestly delete squishes AND tanks with his combo, without DFG. Every post that doesnt mindlessly agree that Veigar is gonna be useless or even tries to reason gets downvoted. Plus, his stun has a lower cd, w too. And his q has a lower cd at early ranks. You guys over exaggerate mobility and that .75 second delay so much, its honestly just so he cant instant 3 second stun whoever he wants to stun. It'll still stun if people pass through it, so for anyone without a flash is still gonna have a hard time ganking him.

AbrahamBaconham6 votes

Thank you! Jesus Christ, I haven't seen a bigger circle jerk since they reworked Rengar.

Hupsis5 votes

There's a video of new Veigar gameplay somewhere here on the forums. You should watch that to get a better understanding what 0.75 sec delay means.

Also Q hits two targets so you'd have to hide behind two minions to not get hit by it.

But whatever. It's not like you Veigar fanboys would listen to any reasoning anyways.

LeeDark3 votes

There's also a loss of 20% of his damage from the removal of DFG, the loss of 20% scaling on his ult, and the fact that he depends entirely on the stun to land his W.

But whatever, it's not like Ahri players know what reason is.

Besides, wtf do you care? You play almost entirely Bot games.

Hupsis2 votes

I care because I'm tired of players being against every change that tries to make the game a bit less frustrating. Instant stun is not good game design and people should realize that.

The Q change compensates for the damage loss on his ult. After you start doing enough damage to kill minions with one Q you really start doubling your AP gain from it.

But whatever, it's not like Ahri players know what reason is.

So you want to stay on the same level with those people knowing that they were wrong about the "destruction of Ahri"? Ahri went to 58% winrate after her changes even though the forums were full of complaints. I'm not saying the same will happen to Veigar but don't judge before the changes are in the game and people have tested them. There's already video content of Veigar in Youtube and I don't see him being "totally destroyed" at all.

And I play mainly bot games to get the first win of the day fast. I play normal games when I'm more excited about the game. It doesn't mean I don't have any experience with the game.

Kijitow5 votes

He was used in pro play and he's immobile.

THIS MUST BE FIXED.

Tricksres5 votes

Hey guys were gonna buff Morde and Veig oh wait no were just kidding but well buff Ahri who didnt need dfg XD

CupcakeTrap5 votes

I'm glad he didn't get a complete rework, i.e., an entirely new kit; I really like Veigar.

That said, these nerfs are pretty bad. I kind of want to make whoever's in charge of that team play a dozen games with Live Veigar in which they must always miss their stun. That's basically what's going on here: it's no longer possible to hit with the edge.

I never really enjoyed that part of his gameplay, i.e., the necessity of hitting with the edge, but this is not a fix.

The stun's got to be given something else to compensate.

Athenes Lulu1 votes

{quoted}

I'm glad he didn't get a complete rework, i.e., an entirely new kit; I really like Veigar.

That said, these nerfs are pretty bad. I kind of want to make whoever's in charge of that team play a dozen games with Live Veigar in which they must always miss their stun. That's basically what's going on here: it's no longer possible to hit with the edge.

I never really enjoyed that part of his gameplay, i.e., the necessity of hitting with the edge, but this is not a fix.

The stun's got to be given something else to compensate.

"we increased his range and decreased its mana cost!" Too bad the nerfs outweigh the "buffs" really heavily.

TrentBatNA1 votes

We need to rework him so he is a mobile champion with like 500 dashes and knock-ups, and be able to 100-0 someone safely so he can make #LC$BIGPLAY$

Gizmo Era4 votes

This is a slight buff to Veigar in my opinion. His Q is a skillshot that hits TWO targets which means you can build-up AP faster if you don't derp. Late game Q should be 1 shotting minions so this should be 2 free AP every few seconds. I'll take it.

Jungle Lux God3 votes

How is changing Q to a skillshot from a targetted ability a nerf to Veigar's ability to harass the enemy?

Don't you want to farm Q stacks? And if you are farming Q stacks, wouldn't it be easier to farm minions if you only save your Q for minions?

If anything, it would be easier to harass with Veigar because you can hit two targets with it, one being a minion you are last hitting and the other being either another minion or an enemy champ. This also doesn't include the fact that it got a range increase and a cooldown reduction at early levels.

I won't try to justify the other two changes that you mentioned, but how is Q a weaker harass tool?

fooledha3 votes

And the worst thing is the E delay, Veigar will feed all the ganks of the enemy team, they will dodge all, gg

Dr Birdie3 votes

I main Veigar and I can tell you, the Q being a skill shot is not a nerf. I have been playing him on the PBE and it is a godsend. You can now get twice as many stacks because it hits two targets instead of one. Not to mention you shouldn't have been using it as harass in the frist place.

I had about 230 stacks in a 25 minute game. His ult lost a very small amount of scaling because of this. You have twice as much bonus AP now, of course your highest scaling will go down slightly. Still didn't stop me from one-shotting a Riven.

Not to mention now that Q hit's two people, you actually have damage in team fights by lining it up to hit two carries with your W at the same time.

Thryale2 votes

you did not "1-shot" a riven. you killed her with a full rotation of spells. The closest I have ever gotten to actually "1-shotting" anyone was in a recent game against a velkoz. At like 40-50 min in, I landed my ult on him and he survived with about 10 hp. (which I killed with a follow up q for 7 ap)

Dr Birdie1 votes

Except I did. She was full health. I ulted her. Then she was zero health.

Delimon3 votes

{quoted}

For those who dont know it yet: http://www.surrenderat20.net/2015/02/213-pbe-update.html

His Q is now a SKILLSHOT! Yes, his main farming ability, he needs to stack AP and stay relevant, on this little slow no mobility champ, is now a Skillshot... Which basicly means byebye harassment, since its easy to hide behind minions from a champ that is slow and has no dash/blink.

His Event Horizon now has a 0.75 s delay where it shows the enemy EXACTLY where its going to come up... Really? Well, thats gg for Veigar in 1v1 and Gank situations. Again, Veigar has NO MOBILITY! He needed that stun to even have a chance against todays "look how I dash instead of walk" junglers. Hes now a sitting duck in lane and he cant even stun incomintg junglers any more... (To compare, thats a delay as long as Cho Gath Q).

And last but not least, his Ultimates AP ratios got nerfed too...

Well done, the little mage was so OP, PIck or Ban in LCS since.... oh wait... But his winrate was so through the roo.... Oh no hes at 48.3%... But thats only because hes picked so muc.... oh, hes basicly never picked?

But well, better him getting a nerf than Lee Sin or Zed, right?

now you know how skarner players like me felt

Xemeron3 votes

{quoted}

now you know how skarner players like me felt

I am (was) a Skarner player myself. I lost my little scorpion too bro...

Delimon2 votes

{quoted}

I am (was) a Skarner player myself. I lost my little scorpion too bro...

it's okay, we can cry together now

"sniff"

oh and I just lost one of my mains who was WW

apparently Riot found a way to nerf the shit out of him.

L Rayquaza1 votes

I'm praying they don't touch Cho'Gath

Risurin2 votes

although i agree his E is now 100% zoning instead of play material now, him getting nerf when his kit was literally drop stun on someone to delete them (specially for a non-assassin), doesnt sound that bad, if he didnt had some other weakness. although his Q range should help him farm in lane better.

MrSexyHobo2 votes

forgot the part about his stacks working on his auto attacks as well which gives even greater late game power. as a velkoz player i can honestly say that veiger is in a much better spot and he is twice as easy to play and scales twice as well into late game.

do you realize how much burst veiger had late game on an apc? it was like 3000-3500 damage at full build in around 1 second... and you are surprised he is getting nerfed?

Alëk5 votes

{quoted}

forgot the part about his stacks working on his auto attacks as well which gives even greater late game power. as a velkoz player i can honestly say that veiger is in a much better spot and he is twice as easy to play and scales twice as well into late game.

do you realize how much burst veiger had late game on an apc? it was like 3000-3500 damage at full build in around 1 second... and you are surprised he is getting nerfed?

LOOOOL. Veigar might have damage but that is all he has. He is one of the squishiest mages out there. An assassin targets him and he instantly dead. His E can be flashed over or blinked out of and most good assassins have those so no that does not prevent a Zed, Fizz, or any assassin from instagibbing him. Vel'Koz on the other hand offers much more to the team with reliable poke, reliable CC, great kiting ability and an Ult that offers amazing AoE damage. All that veigar can do is delete one person if he isn't killed first. No matter which way you look at it, in a game that is based on teamfights Vel'Koz is so much better.

LeeDark3 votes

He's still going to one-shot any mage that gets caught out like that. The thing is, Veigar is entirely dependent on his stun to land the W, and entirely dependent on the stun to even SURVIVE early game.

Don't forget about the part where DFG was a core part of his build and he still hasn't been compensated for that nerf. The only buff he got was Q becoming a multi-target skillshot, and that buff was balanced by the nerf to his ult. His stun nerf is just out of the blue, and he STILL lacks a viable replacement for DFG.

Seas0ned2 votes

Dude ... if you get caught by him late game...dfg or not.. you might as well kiss ur hp bar goodbye... there is no nerfing him :P

allthemuslims2 votes

Like I said in a previous post. Riot is changing all targetted spells to skillshots slowly but surely. It'sbeen happening since season 3. I don't like it.

TheHappyDUCKY2 votes

Make the warning ring unable to be dashed over and id say his stun is more fair but not useless vs mobility champs maybe even give people in the warning ring a debuff that weakens speed boosts by a percentage.

Mal the Red2 votes

The fact this topic is so upvoted shows just how little people read.

Veigar gains more damage than ever because now he gains 1 AP EVERY TIME HE LAST HITS WITH ANY ABILITY, BASIC ATTACK, SUMMONER SPELL, WHATEVER. And it's doubled when he does it to a large minion, monster, or champion.

The Q change allows him to power through any large targets that try to body his blows.

The E change just means he has to use it more defensively than offensively. Set it up and you're telling your opponent to stay away or pay the price.

Narog1 votes

hope veigar mains have the last word on the matter cos it a big change , they are taking some thing away to give him a little more range and cooldown, what riot is trying to do is give him a little less cooldown so he is more competitive .

Delimon2 votes

{quoted}

hope veigar mains have the last word on the matter cos it a big change , they are taking some thing away to give him a little more range and cooldown, what riot is trying to do is give him a little less cooldown so he is more competitive .

do you think ww mains got a say when they gutted the shit out of every ability except his q?

nope, prob not gonna happen here either.

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