Almost every fucking day I get on the boards and see "buff tower" posts. I feel like Riot is avoiding this issue.
I understand the boards make up a small % of the community, but all it takes it one thorough answer to calm some nerves.
Just tell us WHY you want towers weak. It's not that hard.
Aeszarck21 votesMaple Nectar commented on them twice in the last month. https://boards.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/gameplay-balance/M85EEWLB-does-riot-actually-listen-to-our-feedback?comment=000a00010002 https://boards.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/gameplay-balance/PXqgGQss-riot-why-are-turrets-made-out-of-wet-toilet-paper?comment=000e
Kitten of Evil9 votesI mean, those comments were: "Guys, be patient! There's some changes to turrets in 7.23!" and "Guys don't worry, the changes we're pushing in 7.23 will make towers tankier!"
That's not really comforting, nor does it inform us of Riot's vision of how turrets should be.
LankPants11 votes7.23 is the live patch. The changes they are talking about were the +300 HP and minions deal increased damage to towers which actually resulted in squishier towers overall.
ModAcademy Kayn2 votesSquisher Towers only by minion damage becoming the majority damage against a Tower. Otherwise, it still takes longer if the majority of damage to a tower is a champion.
LankPants6 votesThe problem is that the way you typically play around T1 towers makes minion damage the significant majority. Typically these towers fall early, which means champ damage is low relative to creep damage, often champions will allow minions to die to the tower to deny them while farming the enemy minions and early damage often comes from creeps pushing into the tower.
I don't think it's that rare for more than 3000 raw creep damage (1800 post mitigation on 7.23), which is the number needed for the 10% boost to creep damage to balance out the 300 extra HP.
Something else to think about is that outer towers have 3800 HP since 7.23. This means creeps don't need to do a majority of the towers HP for it to fall faster, if they deal half, distinctly not a majority then they've dealt 317 extra damage, outweighing the 300 extra HP already.
Simple math shows that in a realistic situation tower bulk has gone down. The only time when this isn't the case is VS a 3+ man push, but in these cases dealing 300 extra damage isn't even a challenge. The towers last an extra 2 seconds VS 3 people, big fucking deal. The fact that they die quicker to creeps is a far larger impact than that.
Kitten of Evil4 votesRight, they seem to have misunderstood what the changes would do. But more than that, the responses weren't helpful at illustrating their design philosophy for towers.
LankPants4 votesIt's become increasingly clear that their philosophy is to keep towers as weak as possible, even going as far as to nerf already pathetic towers while calling it a buff. It's a clearly destructive philosophy and the only people who are blind to that are Riot themselves.
RiotSparkle96 votesOh hey thanks for posting these! I was going to come in and post the exact same links to Maple's posts re: slightly tankier towers. :)
EDIT: Good morning, Boards!
I wrote this comment and then went to bed last night being like "hey I'll make an uncontroversial statement explaining how I was about to link to another Rioter's previous statements but then someone else helped me out and did that instead! Let's comment and thank them!"
SURPRISE! IT IS APPARENTLY A VERY CONTROVERSIAL THANK YOU @ -45 PTS lmao
Anyway so to update I spoke to Maple this morning and he mentioned the team is writing up a longer piece encompassing thoughts on towers, game pacing etc. as well. I have no ETA on this piece, but it sounds like it will include more of the meaty design problems & decisions you guys are obviously looking for.
BeatzBoyFTW52 votes[{quoted}](name=Riot Sparkle,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=rmqkXiog,comment-id=00020001,timestamp=2017-12-04T06:38:27.496+0000)
Oh hey thanks for posting these! I was going to come in and post the exact same links to Maple's posts re: slightly tankier towers. :)
You mean the pathetic +300HP turret buff that's been happening in this current patch? And also let's add in the 50% 40% reduced minion damage as "compensation" cz why not....
Tomoe Gozen5 votesAnd what are you exactly expecting to happen to turrets? To be buffed to a point where it's the fountain laser protecting your ass and obliterating everything that looks at you funny? Turrets (as objectives) are meant to be taken down at some point and you will never see a state of League where you'd get 20 minutes to farm your ass off under the protection of your T1 turret. Whether or not it's still standing at that point in time is up to you.
Ęsdeath21 votesSimply expecting Riot to buff towers in a way that when you die (usually by ganks) in mid-top (and specially bot) you don't instantly lose your tower around 7-8 minutes (sometimes 5), destroying your whole game because of a single mistake - Also, avoiding the "games are decided at the 10 minutes mark" and who knows ... allowing towers to actually deal damage? Because I am starting to see that the 66,66% damage reduction (without nearby minions) is not really useful if the tower cannot provide any damage in exchange.
Tomoe Gozen2 votesBuffing turrets to be more dangerous and not more durable seems like a logical step to me. I don't need a second base at every tier defense on every lane or we'll run into a problem of having to have your entire team on a single lane to be able to push something. And i don't want 30 minute farmfests where literally nothing is happening because kills mean nothing and turrets take no damage from your pathetic looking stats unless you're 4+ items down the line.
WiegrafOfValor13 votesLeague of legends had towers that dealt damage and was hard to bring it down for almost 5 years, and never was a 30 min farmfest.
InfinitexMortal3 votesYeah the +10% minion dmg is more of a nerf to turrets than the distraction of +2 
LankPants36 votesThe problem is that the +300 HP didn't do anything. In fact the bonus minion damage VS towers is outweighing the 300 HP significantly and towers are actually squishier now.
Towers need serious buffs, not these jokes. They need to have about 30-50% more HP, they need to have 15% bonus damage to champs scaling up to 25% as they ramp or some other similar changes to these. Towers need drastic buffs because right now they're utterly pathetic, even more so on 7.23 than 7.22.
VelvetCrotch3 votesIt's just like riot tries to give us a big summer sale with that turret "buffs" by hoping to not read the fine print. Rofl
RacoonHunter2 votesI think that all towers need to have their "top/mid lane" buffs til at least 10 minutes into the game. they also need to be smarter and due true damage starting about the 15/20 minute mark. they should be feared, not be the laughing joke that a garen with a cloth armor can tank to his hearts content while wailing away at the tower.. especially when he's regenning more than what the tower is dishing out.
La Bello15 votesI got a couple questions/suggestions
1.Why 
level 1 ult CD 140s when the norm tends to be 120~110? I dont think its a strong enough skill to warrant such a high CD...
2.Wud it be cool if 
got a some changes specifically so she feels better about 
Like making denting blows total AD instead of Bonus??
3.
has a passive update on PBE currently but what about 
and 
? Both passives are relics from pass seasons where everyone and their grandma had sustain of some sort tacked onto their kit so they could lane properly (Hiemerdinger being the most obvious example) and the latter could definitely use more synergistic updates as well.
4.
Hows her passive update coming along?
5.
When is she going to get Azir'd so I can actually enjoy her in SoloQ again? Is it really that hard to just nerf the stuff that makes her too good in proplay(W ability,Rend outsmiting junglers, Get outta jail free card for support) and instead buff the stuff that makes her solid in more uncoordinated environments?like her hop mechanic and maybe re-tune her scaling to be more relevant late (like removing that dumb "Auto attacks deal 90% damage" Caveat. )
6.
let his OWN auto attacks reduce the CD of his E skill . I really like Amumu but he's basically working with only two skills right now, his Q and R. Maybe even rework the passive part of this skill? Its so outdated....
7.Thoughts 
Warpath giving bonus ARMOR based on MS instead of AD then Give Devastating Charge (E) a Move Speed Ratio same as 
W? I think it would make Hecarim a better diver and it just makes more sense imo because E seems to be the only skill that really makes use of his current passive.
8.
please destroy the base damage on E and amp up the ratio OR give Toxic shot an actual cooldown . Teemo has been way to oppressive with this thing for too long Im so tired of seeing Teemo go full HP Tank and still have kill pressure due to this skill. Its also stupidly obnoxious in lane because it makes any auto poke deal like double damage.
NineTailedMystic2 votesAhri's passive is fine. It used to be like Morgana's where she got Spellvamp at 9 stacks, but was changed to flat healing per hit that scales at level increments.
La Bello2 votesAhri's innate passive should have been what was added to her Q. That little bonus Movespeed on spellcast thing would be the perfect replacement considering Ahri's big strength is supposed to be her mobility/kiting.
Ahris current Essence thief passive is like really strong in lane esp with 
but a complete non factor OUT of lane.
NineTailedMystic2 votesEssence Thief, while helpful in lane, isn't "really strong". It's definitely noticeable if used well, though. However it is not a non-factor outside of lane. It allows her to make plays without having to back immediately after. If she makes a pick bot, she can just heal up off of the wave and continue to push and pressure much more safely because she didn't have to back. It's just not particularly useful in combat if you're not keenly aware of it.
Divewing1 votesDebatable.
By the time you've found either a sizable minion wave, set up the passive, actually used it to heal enough (which may need to be used more than once), I probably could have recalled and returned to lane twice.
NineTailedMystic3 votesNone of that is necessary. You can just naturally push a wave, and as long as you get a good Q when the passive comes up, you're good. It's not like you need to set up a 14 minion wave.
Divewing1 votesyou make it sound like Qing a wave will take you from near-death to full
NineTailedMystic3 votesLate game, it will probably be 50% heal off of one passive.
MysticFlameHaze6 votesYou should copy and paste this into an actual board.
Mimr1 votes7.Thoughts
You can get more than enough mileage out of Hecs' passive with 
and runes like Predator, Phase Rush and Celerity.
Divewing1 votes---->INSTEAD<-----
ValyrianBlade1 votes7.Thoughts
As a Hecarim player, I really don't want to see this. Leave me with the AD please. The whole fantasy of Hecarim is getting enough MS from items + ghost + potentially predator or ally buffs to charge at an enemy and annihilate them with a midair Q and your E's auto damage, all while they fruitlessly try to run/dash away but it's hopeless because you have like 800MS. Replacing a chunk of that damage with armor would just destroy that fantasy - I can build armor because after triforce I don't need damage thanks to my passive.
Pixie Storm11 votes[{quoted}](name=Riot Sparkle,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=rmqkXiog,comment-id=00020001,timestamp=2017-12-04T06:38:27.496+0000)
Oh hey thanks for posting these! I was going to come in and post the exact same links to Maple's posts re: slightly tankier towers. :)
Yet I can still get on my tanky top laner or ADC, and milk a tower below 50% before my opponent gets back to their lane. If I have even one damage dealing team mate with me, you can kiss that tower goodbye. I knew the towers were buffed, but it hardly made a difference in game besides slow the pace just a tad bit. The community asked for the tower to deal more damage to opponents so that tower diving is frowned upon as it once was before. If Rioters could please, just test an increase in tower damage in PBE, I'm sure the community would be happy to give you a response.
LightIsMyPath20 votesActually the pace is not slowed. According to stat sites the average game time is even shorter now
WiegrafOfValor5 votesProbably because of the minions buff, classic riot.
Illâoi Evê Siôn2 votesI think they mean comment on how that change affected Towers. The intention was to make them slightly tankier but it might not have hit the mark. We were wondering if there will be any follow-up, if you're satisfied with the change, if you have any data you would like to share with us, etc.
Thanks for wanting to share the other links for people who haven't noticed the changes anyways.
RiotSparkle20 votesSee, I do believe that a lot of folks actually want the info you're referencing here but that actually wasn't the question asked unfortunately. :c The question asked was this:
Just tell us WHY you want towers weak. It's not that hard.
Like, that just starts with a false assumption. Even if I felt qualified to talk deeply on this subject, which I don't (hence referring to someone else's words), I can't answer that question because the question itself is just simply...not true.
Anyway to answer YOUR question, I can't speak to the follow up or satisfaction of the change because I am not working on the project, but Maple has told me the team is writing up a longer form thing to talk about towers, game pacing, etc. that will probably touch on a lot of what you're asking for here. I have no ETA on when that will happen, but it's in the works. :)
warpenguin5553 votesWould game pacing include how quickly champions are scaling? Because I've been waiting a while for somebody from Riot to talk about Marksmen scaling
EkyonKun10 votes[{quoted}](name=Riot Sparkle,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=rmqkXiog,comment-id=0002000100090000,timestamp=2017-12-04T18:17:01.412+0000)
but Maple has told me
Not that it's any of my business, but shouldn't MAPLE be the one responding to this then? I appreciate the time and effort, but does Maple not have a quick minute to discuss the balance state of towers if it's such a hot topic?
EDIT: That wasn't a sarcastic retort. It was a legitimate question. It just seemed odd the person having next to nothing to do with it would be the one responding to the thread.
RiotSparkle22 votesThat's a totally fair question. From my perspective, I wouldn't wanna pull anyone off of what they're working on to answer to an inquisition that I basically accidentally started. Especially if the thing they're working on is basically just...more well articulated thoughts about this stuff. Like yeah, finish that up instead IMO. That being said, I'm happy to stick around. :)
Plus, given the team is writing their own longer form thingy I figure it's probably better to have the actual design conversation take place wherever they post that as opposed to splitting everyone's attention into a buncha places. In my personal experience, having one place that players can go to in order to talk about a thing or look at to find all the relevant answers works best for making sure the maximum amount of players can find what they're looking for. That's not a hard and fast rule, but when it's something a lot of players have been talking about I think the visibility is important.
EDIT: Hey friends, please don't downvote EkyonKun. It is actually a good question!
zero3564 votesI can't answer that question because the question itself is just simply...not true.
Is what you say, but a majority of decisions for the past while prove that claim to be false.
Illâoi Evê Siôn3 votes[{quoted}](name=Riot Sparkle,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=rmqkXiog,comment-id=0002000100090000,timestamp=2017-12-04T18:17:01.412+0000)
but Maple has told me the team is writing up a longer form thing to talk about towers, game pacing, etc. that will probably touch on a lot of what you're asking for here. I have no ETA on when that will happen, but it's in the works. :)
I really don't want to be rude, because I'm grateful for your answer despite us, the boards, being so hostile towards Rioters most of the time, but I just wanted to let you know how I feel at the moment: After Varus' lore fiasco and seasons of silence on towers and 'everything creep' and the last set of changes to towers, I, and lot of other players probably, won't be expecting much from such a write-up.
I fear it'll just say something like ... you hear our worries, you'll talk a bit about game pacing and strategy and keeping things fresh and exciting, you might talk a little bit about what the +300 Health did and give some vague, general statements about what Riot wants from League in the future and how you want to satisfy the players, and that will be it. Nothing will actually be changed.
I think we might want some token gesture to reestablish faith? Not that you can truly do that. The boards will probably always be hostile. But just something. Maybe just give towers another +300 Health and see what happens. Or add an alternative Varus lore page to the League website that fleshes out his family and says that Pallas is a morally ambiguous Darkin. Or increase the price of all items by 100 gold.
nm10105 votesWould you like to comment on how game times have seemed to drop after that 'buff'?
Sharp Chedarr3 votesThat was my main problem. Been playing since S3 and surrenders are rampant. Right now, either damage is too high or people snowball waay to fast compared to previous seasons. Whether or not that is because of weak towers is something I wanted Riot to address. Honestly, I don't think Riot really anticipated the impact of first tower gold.
Kaìju9 votesThanks for the edit. I know you guys get dumpstered a lot but I think it's because many of us don't know how to handle our passion in a non cancerous way.
The fact you guys are gonna talk about game pace is a huge relief because it's been my biggest concern for a long time. I wish I saw it sooner but the game being so fast causes a lot of problems because of the need to speed up damage gain and such. I love Ashe, but games end before I can scale at all because she falls into a niche position of less damage for utility, but the current state of the game punishes non damage picks.
I don't know, I'm just glad you guys are gonna talk about it and sorry for the amount of punching bag you cosplay as.
RiotSparkle31 votesOh no worries dude! I'm actually pretty pumped that my first truly dumpstered comment is just me thanking a dude instead of me royally screwing something up. Cuz I always worry that somehow by speaking publicly to you all I'll royally screw something up haha
Also now I'm imagining what it would look like if I actually cosplayed a punching bag IRL. ;)
kagepaladin3 votesI Upvoted it for ya now in exchange fix those mordekaiser bugs Wink Wink Nudge Nudge [slayer-jinx-wink]
Aeszarck1 votes[{quoted}](name=Riot Sparkle,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=rmqkXiog,comment-id=00020001000e0000,timestamp=2017-12-04T19:03:47.809+0000)
Oh no worries dude! I'm actually pretty pumped that my first truly dumpstered comment is just me thanking a dude instead of me royally screwing something up. Cuz I always worry that somehow by speaking publicly to you all I'll royally screw something up haha
Also now I'm imagining what it would look like if I actually cosplayed a punching bag IRL. ;)
My first dumpstered comment was me making a joke about how there was technically more than one AP Armor item because Seeker's Armguard, Zeke's Herald, and Wooglet's Witchcap existed. It still haunts me to this day...
I totally get the fear of speaking publically as a Rioter. I realize the immense pressure on you to say stuff that doesn't give players a false image or makes Riot look bad, because if someone makes a bad comment (like Riot Sanjuro) then that person's comment can be seen very easily and then quoted, and then people will just reference that comment until the end of time (like Riot Silver's comment about Graves's cigar). It's a scary thought! I appreciate you and Maple Nectar's willingness to comment frequently on the Boards, more communication with Riot is always something the players appreciate, even if the appreciation is shrouded by a mask of anger and displeasure. We just want someone to talk to because Rioters are pretty cool. :)
I feel bad that you got dumpstered because you made an innocent comment. I think it makes Rioters not want to interact with the Boards if all it takes is an innocent comment to get downvoted!
WiegrafOfValor2 votesYou mean +300 hp? sure
Abibyama18 votesRito buffs the turrets
Thread 1 Turrets are so strong, that any dives are impossible, making this game stale and unfun
Thread 2 Undivable turrets cause behind teams to turtle and stale out the game making it unfunnily long and tedious
Thread 3 Holy fuck this wave clear meta so annoying. Ziggs vs Xerath every single game
Thread 4 Remember in season 7 how games were ACTUALLY fun? (Except Ardent Meta, gosh that was awful)
Please buff towers so I can meme the hell out of it
Niaphim6 votesWhile I think towers should be buffed at least some more, this is pretty accurate. Thank you for a good laugh, Summoner.
Xonra10 votesYou aren't going to get anything from them but the same bs of how they don't think they are actually that bad (they think they are fine and we are overreacting somehow), and that they actually think this latest change IS a buff to towers (which it is only if you do the Riot thing and look at changes in a vacuum and ignore the minion changes).
It's pointless to even ask for Riot responses anymore I've learned.
They see the game from a very odd perspective I've grown to learn, and I've given up believing they will understand it from the perspective of the players on the whole.
Edit: You can salty downvote me if you want, but a Rioter literally responded in here with pretty much what I said. So...
RiotSparkle30 votesLiterally no one responded with "pretty much what you said". Please don't put words in my mouth.
I responded only to link to another Rioter's words on the subject, and the statements he made did not say anything you're implying here. As mentioned above, we're going to talk more on towers & game pacing in the future but for now I would appreciate you not misquoting me, please.