Mastery Token Upgrades WAY TOO EXPENSIVE

ForFoxSakes·Nov 9, 2017·109 votes·8,796 views

Back when BE had only cosmetic value or the chance to unlock shards, the BE cost wasn't cannibalizing on champ expansion but was a bonus to help it

Now upgrading mastery to M7 costs 3900, and for M6 is 3250

Those who have opened leveling capsules have said the shards seem to vary depending on the champ value, so lower value shards will likely have more other shards in the same capsule but the DE values will net you from 800-1000 BE...

Which means to level up from Mastery 5 to Mastery 7 you'll need to level up SEVEN fucking times and DE everything to upgrade your mastery level!

All the while you arent getting champions

Mastery upgrades need to be reduced in price or allow Orange Essence to unlock as well

54 Comments

Get em TibbersNov 9, 201716 votes

Well for that price lemme just say that, I will never upgrade champ mastery EVER again. I will buy new champs instead since the price is similar.

Let's see, what do you prefer? A cosmetic visual only available in loading screen or a Whole NEW Champion?

Champion 100%. Always

NeedySurvivorOct 3, 20181 votes

Na flashing mastery is always better

Warlord RhinarkOct 3, 20181 votes

{quoted}

Na flashing mastery is always better

Mate this was 11 months ago.

PaladinNONov 9, 201710 votes

Honestly, it doesn't make sense why mastery upgrades cost BE at all. The mastery tokens should be enough.

melodiouskitsuneNov 9, 20177 votes

They mentioned it when talking about the changes before preseason, but yeah since they scaled up what BE you had by 6.5, they scaled up the cost for champion mastery by the same amount. I wasn't a fan of that when it was first noted and still am not sold on it either.

Kirius DarkNov 9, 20176 votes

They should just get rid of the BE cost to upgrade it altogether. It's literally just purely cosmetic and not that special anymore with the introduction of emotes and having to choose between a mastery emote flash vs champs is pretty stupid. Being hardstuck capped at Mastery 6 because you dont have the BE to upgrade and to start collecting M7 tokens is also a huge oversight

SukishooNov 9, 20175 votes

so lower value shards will likely have more other shards in the same capsule but the DE values will net you from 800-1000 BE...

Mine got a little over 400 so that range is not right at all.

DuskDaUmbreonNov 9, 20171 votes

Not possible. They're coded in a way that you cannot get less than 810, I believe the number is.

If you actually got a total of less than that, you need to submit a ticket (alongside a screenshot) to show this.

XxDRAGONsAK47xXNov 9, 20174 votes

Um...

A lot of people have been getting less than 810 lmao

KloqdqNov 9, 20171 votes

People need to screen shot it and provide proof of it. Than put that in Riot's face. Staying quiet on the matter and just spreading whispers ain't doing shit.

SailorPsychoNov 9, 20174 votes

Where's the actual proof that they said it'd be a range of 800-1000 though? I've not seen this anywhere.

KloqdqNov 9, 20172 votes

Check Dev's corner it has a Rioter doing the math on the system. Which is more proof than you have given me.

SailorPsychoNov 9, 20174 votes

Read my other comment.

And that's not proof, a LINK to it is more so. But they didn't code it right if were are getting less.

KloqdqNov 9, 20172 votes

https://boards.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/developer-corner/Jh3Mtzu6-blue-essence-earn-rates-learning-the-numbers-with-carl-and-Henrietta

Link to Riot doing the math.

You didn't post a picture so I can't believe you 100%. Especially hard when Morde is giving you more than Olaf (who costs more).

If it is a problem, post a picture and send it to Riot so they are aware of a problem.

SailorPsychoNov 9, 20173 votes

I wrote them backwards, but either way that is still the amount.

I don't have a picture, I had already disenchanted them before I saw people saying we are supposedly supposed to get more.

KloqdqNov 9, 20171 votes

Than if it happens again, take a picture. I don't know what to say. I haven't gotten a chest yet so I don't know how much I will get and I am just going off the numbers Riot has told me. If you are getting a lower amount than make sure you have proof and show it to Riot. It's hard to believe people saying they are getting lower amount when they don't show any evidence of it.

SailorPsychoNov 9, 20171 votes

Well, it seems to be working now as I hit 32 and got 900 from the 4 shards.

KloqdqNov 9, 20171 votes

Well if it happens again, do keep an eye out for it. This could be a one-time error. It also seems somewhat confusing because I thought you always got 3 champions, not 2 like you did.

Just record what you are getting and keep an eye out for the mistakes in the future. Best way to avoid it and than report it in.

MuffledGarbageNov 10, 20171 votes

I got a Blitzcrank shard (400 BE) a Ryze shard (90 BE) and a Singed shard(90 BE)

that's 400+90 = 490

490+ 90 = 580

I got a total of 580 BE from disenchanting all three...

I'll screenshot the next capsule I get(in a week because of how slow lvling is)

KloqdqNov 10, 20171 votes

How are you guys leveling so slow I am leveling pretty quick considering everything

For real, if you aren't getting the BE min, screen shot and send to Riot. That just how you are going to result. If they don't do anything, screen shot and share it around. That will spread the word in a much better manner. Gain results by real proof, not word of mouth.

If they do help you out they will increase the amount you gain to the 810 min they have.

MuffledGarbageNov 10, 20171 votes

about leveling, I played a total of 16 games to level from 30 to 31...

KloqdqNov 10, 20171 votes

I played what 4 games thus far and I'm almost level 31??? I am burning with curiousity how people need so many games to level up?

MuffledGarbageNov 11, 20171 votes

I think Riot made a new stat to measure players with for the "bad luck protection" system.

It's probably bugging out and giving a large portion of players a situation like "hey this person had good luck, time to balance that out with bad luck"

but in reality the system was randomly tricked into thinking this.

Just my guess [sg-zephyr]

Skyreaper74Nov 19, 20172 votes

I have gotten 5 alistar champion shards so far.

ForFoxSakesNov 9, 20173 votes

Their example is stupid and flawed because theyre comparing rewards per level rather than rewards per game.

they state hey at level 39 this casual gets the same rewards as a hardcore player who also hits 39 = balanced! Yet totally ignore the amount of games played except in the level 31 comparison where the hardcore gets screwed over by getting less. Well over time the hardcore gets screwed over even harder

Basically the most efficient way they're detailing now is just to get the first win bonus and that's it because playing more after that has diminishing returns

KloqdqNov 9, 20171 votes

You are right. That is exactly what I am saying. You get less the more you play.

That is a problem. So the solution? Spread out the EXP gain a little more so hardcore players don't get shafted. That way you can keep the short amount of games players somewhat equal while making the hard core players at least not get completely shafted out.

There is no reason these values and gains can't be adjusted. And if people point it out enough and have enough problems with it, Riot will fix it or they will lose their player base. If people do not like the current system/numbers, whatever, than don't support it, voice your opinion and stop playing. It is not that hard regardless of what people say when you have hundreds of options outside of this game and the money you spent is pointless at the end of the day (trust me, I already got over my $1700 account a while ago).

Is it perfect right now? No. I understand people are mad but people need to put down the pitchforks and think about this rationally. It's a lot harder to take someone seriously when they are raging. Also I haven't seen many people do what Riot has done - the math.

Give me pictures, numbers, results, etc. Just provide me with information and than I can make an informed decision if this system is good or bad. People that yell and shout with nothing behind it don't get anywhere.

New Tool AlbumNov 9, 20171 votes

go look at my post abot close to 700 worth, it's fucking bull shit

SailorPsychoNov 9, 20174 votes

I got an Olaf and Morde shard, that was INDEED lower than 800.

790RP / 3150BE Champion - Olaf 585RP / 1350BE Champion Morde

458 in shards.

So they did NOT code it to give us 810, cause where did they even say this?

ForFoxSakesNov 9, 20171 votes

Wow thats by far the lowest Ive seen and dont think thats the norm at all. At that rate its like 7 levels just to go from M5-M6 or to get half a champ in 7 levels [zombie-brand-mindblown]

ForFoxSakesNov 9, 20172 votes

Official Red post claims

First, a couple baselines to get us started. A Leveling Capsule contains champ shards with a BE value of either 720, 900, 960, or 1,240. (The average value is 910 based on drop rates) A Milestone Capsule (every 10 levels) contains champ shards valued at 1,980, 2,160, or 2,220. (The average value is 2,120 based on drop rates)

http://www.surrenderat20.net/2017/11/red-post-collection-preseason-runes-722.html

So I dont think the 400 is legit. Also based on the average above of 910, I figured out these: 20% to get 720 Capsule 50% to get 900 capsule 20% to get 960 capsule 10% to get 1240 capsule

SukishooNov 9, 20174 votes

Yet that isn't what I got at all.

ForFoxSakesNov 9, 20171 votes

I'd ticket that and send in the red quote above to say you got shafted to properly get what you'd deserve

ClawishNov 14, 20171 votes

Just got a Camille shard in my L33 capsule, her shard is worth 1260 BE.

xelakerNov 9, 20174 votes

Hey kid, you wanna get mastery quick? leans in closer I've got some...ahem... rp that'll getcha big mastery real quick like

[sg-lulu]

Amasa DelanoNov 9, 20173 votes

You can also upgrade mastery with a champion shard matching the mastery. I, for one, am planning to just wait until I get the appropriate champion shard to upgrade my masteries. Sitting on a number of Level 6/Level 7 tokens at the moment...

ForFoxSakesNov 9, 20176 votes

Most cost efficient way to ideally do it, but you'd be at a 1% chance to get the shard you need with 139 champs to upgrade M5-M6, then youd need it again for M6-M7 which makes the odds even worse

Furthermore, higher value champ shards have already been stated to come at a much lower drop rate than cheap champs so if you're earning mastery on higher cost or new champs you'd be even more screwed.

Sub 1% RNG to upgrade tokens isnt a well designed system

WeedbroNov 9, 20172 votes

wow thats really cool! :D Definitely don't change this. What a great feature!!! [sg-miss-fortune]

SzGamer227Nov 9, 20171 votes

They cost the same as before; they inflated the BE cost to match what we understand its value to be in IP, but it has always costed this much.

You used to have to grind lots of games to buy several RNG champ shards that may or may not get you the amount of BE you needed to level up Mastery. At least they're being transparent with how expensive it is.

ForFoxSakesNov 9, 20173 votes

They "cost" the same as before, but before BE was strictly for bonus champs via shards or mastery while IP was your guaranteed champ expansion currency. BE just went up massively in value with it becoming the guaranteed champ currency on top of being harder to get, so the exchange rate is very off

LeonerdoNov 10, 20171 votes

The overall rate is the same or better:

All BE amounts were multiplied by 6.5 for the purpose of merging with IP. Shards disenchant for 60% as much as before (and multiplied by 6.5 of course). Loot chests give more shards though on average (I don't know the exact rate). So overall, Loot chests give the same BE value as before.

[Playing games -> IP -> Champions] is isometric to [Playing games -> XP -> Level up Capsules -> Shards -> BE -> Champions]. It's less straightforward now, and there is a little RNG in the capsule drops, but on average the BE gain is the same as the IP gain from before.

The important impacts of these changes (what people should be focusing on) are

Leveling is a part of the process now (because people like filling up progress bars and making numbers bigger).
You get more shards, so you have a greater chance of receiving a shard that you actually want to upgrade to a permanent.
BE/IP are merged so that you can buy champions with BE, and you can craft Mastery 6/7 with IP (without needing to buy the Mystery Champ shards, which were removed).
Oh, and the First-Win bonus makes up a slightly larger portion of your overall income than before.

By contrast, what hasn't changed is the overall rates at which you earn/buy champions and mastery levels. All the other number changes are just a way of making everything match up nicely, so that your overall output of Essense and Champions is the same or better.

THE ONLY LOSERS in this new system are people who grind 20+ games per day, because they get fewer First-Win bonuses per hour spent. And even then, at worst, their BE income is only 10% worse than the previous system.

ForFoxSakesNov 10, 20172 votes

You get more shards, so you have a greater chance of receiving a shard that you actually want to upgrade to a permanent.

The above is actually false. Based on what RIOT has specifically said

First, a couple baselines to get us started. A Leveling Capsule contains champ shards with a BE value of either 720, 900, 960, or 1,240. (The average value is 910 based on drop rates) A Milestone Capsule (every 10 levels) contains champ shards valued at 1,980, 2,160, or 2,220. (The average value is 2,120 based on drop rates)

http://www.surrenderat20.net/2017/11/red-post-collection-preseason-runes-722.html

Also based on the average above of 910, I figured out these: 20% to get 720 Capsule 50% to get 900 capsule 20% to get 960 capsule 10% to get 1240 capsule

The ONLY way you'll get a 6300 champ shard is if you get the 10% chance for the 1240 capsule on leveling, and when it's a 1240 you only get ONE champ shard so you better hope you first hit the 10% for a 6300 champ then hit the odds it's for one you dont own. Those who are getting 3-5 shards in their capsule are because theyre getting shit 450 cost champs. You WILL NOT be getting 3-5 shards of 6300 cost champs

With the loss of the 3 shard reroll the only way you benefit from the shards is to RNG a champ shard you dont own which is significantly harder for brand new and high cost champs. At the current list including Zoe there's 33 6300 cost champs, so to actually get the specific one you need on leveling is 10% for top capsule shard x 1/33 = 0.3% chance to get that Zoe shard. Even with the higher output on milestone capsules, with those listed BE amounts you'd still be only getting ONE 6300 shard in any case

Good luck! So rewarding

BE/IP merge for Mastery levels is even worse then before They "cost" the same as before, but before BE was strictly for bonus champs via shards or mastery while IP was your guaranteed champ expansion currency. BE just went up massively in value with it becoming the guaranteed champ currency on top of being harder to get, so the exchange rate is very off

LeonerdoNov 10, 20171 votes

It's not guaranteed to be those drop rates. It could just as easily be a 15% chance to get a 1240 capsule, balanced by a 35-40% chance to get a 720. But regardless, your point stands that the 1240 capsules are very rare.

Do you know how rare the 6300 IP champ shards were in the old system though? (Just from experience I think it's also about 10-15%, but idk).

But more importantly, I didn't say anything about the kind of shards you are getting, just that you are getting more shards in general, which is definitely true. That may not help veterans who are only interested in 6300 BE champs, but it helps newbies for sure, and potentially people who still need some 4800 BE champs.

The loss of the 3 shard reroll

This is indeed a loss. A lot of people would buy 3 1700 IP mystery champ shards and reroll them into a 6300 IP champion, saving 1200 IP. However, in exchange, we got the 3800 BE Mystery Champion option in the limited-time BE sale. Admittedly, that's mostly beneficial to those who were paying attention and saved up some BE/IP for preseason. But people could also spend their Rune refunds on that, meaning that most veterans could easily get 10 random champions right now, if that's what they care about most. And while that sale is temporary, it's supposed to come back up occasionally.

BE becoming harder to get, in the merge

The two sources of IP/BE are still just as productive as before. IP/XP from winning games, as we've been discussing, is at worst 10% less productive. And the BE from loot crates/honor capsules is also the same, except all the numbers (upgrade/mastery level costs, disenchant values, and stored BE) were multiplied by 6.5 in the transition to match the value of IP, and it's split between more shards.

ForFoxSakesNov 10, 20171 votes

{quoted}

It's not guaranteed to be those drop rates. It could just as easily be a 15% chance to get a 1240 capsule, balanced by a 35-40% chance to get a 720. But regardless, your point stands that the 1240 capsules are very rare.

It's not guaranteed because yes there's anomalies when you're dealing with low samples for you just levelling up 20 times you'd be only 20 samples, but the chances of getting those capsules I listed still stand due to weighted averages when they want the average to be 910, I'm not taking the value of the 4 diff capsule amounts then dividing it by 4, I'm actually using weighted averages to reverse calculate the odds which is what those % work out to

Do you know how rare the 6300 IP champ shards were in the old system though? (Just from experience I think it's also about 10-15%, but idk).

I dont know and yeah they were rare, but they also didnt matter that much when you could reroll 3 crap shards into 1 champ perm so if you were just missing 6300s youd be guaranteed in getting one. Cant reroll anymore so it's all based on RNG shard drop now.

But more importantly, I didn't say anything about the kind of shards you are getting, just that you are getting more shards in general, which is definitely true. That may not help veterans who are only interested in 6300 BE champs, but it helps newbies for sure, and potentially people who still need some 4800 BE champs.

More shards isnt always good when theyre useless duplicates worth little DE value. Even for those who dont have even half the champ pool will be cucked when the new system deliberately drops more 450 and 1350 than anything else. Even getting 4800 shards will be a big struggle

This is indeed a loss. A lot of people would buy 3 1700 IP mystery champ shards and reroll them into a 6300 IP champion, saving 1200 IP. However, in exchange, we got the 3800 BE Mystery Champion option in the limited-time BE sale. Admittedly, that's mostly beneficial to those who were paying attention and saved up some BE/IP for preseason. But people could also spend their Rune refunds on that, meaning that most veterans could easily get 10 random champions right now, if that's what they care about most. And while that sale is temporary, it's supposed to come back up occasionally.

I've played since S3 and only had 39k BE after the refund. Did around 200-400 games a season so not super hardcore but I still dont have all the champs from dumping a lot into CDR, move speed quints, lethality and such where I didnt get much back but spent A LOT on :( Missing around 20 champs still. The "cheaper champs" out now were at the full 6300 price back then so I was paying more for the champs which ate in to my past IP spending too.

The two sources of IP/BE are still just as productive as before. IP/XP from winning games, as we've been discussing, is at worst 10% less productive. And the BE from loot crates/honor capsules is also the same, except all the numbers (upgrade/mastery level costs, disenchant values, and stored BE) were multiplied by 6.5 in the transition to match the value of IP, and it's split between more shards.

"10%" if you're taking RITO's example as their word on it but lots of calcs have proven theyre at least 15-20% off on top of their 10% means you're getting much less. Honor capsules will barely add anything when most of the time it's a single 450 champ shard for 90 BE now. Mastery token upgrade costs went up at a flat fixed rate while BE gain went down, which means it actually costs MORE to upgrade mastery

LeonerdoNov 10, 20171 votes

It's not guaranteed because yes there's anomalies when you're dealing with low samples for you just levelling up 20 times you'd be only 20 samples, but the chances of getting those capsules I listed still stand due to weighted averages when they want the average to be 910, I'm not taking the value of the 4 diff capsule amounts then dividing it by 4, I'm actually using weighted averages to reverse calculate the odds which is what those % work out to

You're taking me for an idiot. I did the same reverse calculation as you, but started with a higher amount of 1240 capsules. You can do the calculation multiple ways, since it's an equation with multiple unknowns.

"10%" if you're taking RITO's example as their word on it but lots of calcs have proven theyre at least 15-20% off on top of their 10% means you're getting much less. Honor capsules will barely add anything when most of the time it's a single 450 champ shard for 90 BE now. Mastery token upgrade costs went up at a flat fixed rate while BE gain went down, which means it actually costs MORE to upgrade mastery

Yeah, I'm taking their word. They're not dumb enough to fuck up the math, and they have nothing to gain from lying to us. I don't know why people suddenly tihink that Riot went from one of the most transparent/honest companies to one that would lie about BE income, just so they can cheat the players out of a couple champions.

And for sure I'm taking Riot's word over the anecdotal evidence and poor analysis that people are posting on the boards. And yes, I've checked them thoroughly; most of the 15-20% loss that people are reporting is due to bad luck in 1- or 2-capsule sample size, which we knew was a possibility before hand.

ForFoxSakesNov 10, 20171 votes

Can you show me what your odds came out to be for each?

Ugly table in message format but I did:

Capsule DE value x odds 720 x 20% = 144 900 x 50% = 450 960 x 20% = 192 1240 x 10% = 124 Average 144+450+192+124 = 910 exactly

IDK if I can take their word for it yet when there's LOTS of people showing that they're just getting capsules with only 600 BE and no shards, or a 450 and 1350, or four 450s.

They want what they claim, but somewhere in their coding they've definitely fucked up somewhere

Also IDK why 6300 shards DE into 1240 when 20% is 1260. All other DE values are at 20% but at the highest amount they rip you off by 20 BE

LeonerdoNov 11, 20171 votes

720 x 25% = 180 900 x 44% = 396 960 x 18% = 172.8 1240 x 13% = 161.2

That's one of many possibilities. Your set of numbers is certainly rounder and has a good distribution, so it's a good guess, but it's still just that - a guess. And I'd rather not argue based on it. (Whatever the exact number is, I still must concede that it's very rare to get 1240 capsules.)

people showing that they're just getting capsules with only 600 BE and no shards...

That specific example was posted by someone who's not level 30. I would assume that level-up capsules before level 30 work a bit differently. And IIRC, the earlier levels require less experience, so it's not unacceptable that they give less BE too.

somewhere in their coding they've definitely fucked up

That's possible I suppose. If everyone else started with that assumption, rather than "Riot is trying to rip us off", that would have been a lot more civil/agreeable. I don't mind when people try to point out honest mistakes like bugs, but when people jump straight to accusing Riot of subterfuge or incompetence, it's pretty frustrating.

Also IDK why 6300 shards DE into 1240 when 20% is 1260. All other DE values are at 20% but at the highest amount they rip you off by 20 BE

Yeah, that's weird. I can't really justify that one. It honestly irks me, too. The impact isn't that significant overall, but it does seem erroneous.

Devin9303Dec 9, 20171 votes

{quoted}

Back when BE had only cosmetic value or the chance to unlock shards, the BE cost wasn't cannibalizing on champ expansion but was a bonus to help it

Now upgrading mastery to M7 costs 3900, and for M6 is 3250

Those who have opened leveling capsules have said the shards seem to vary depending on the champ value, so lower value shards will likely have more other shards in the same capsule but the DE values will net you from 800-1000 BE...

Which means to level up from Mastery 5 to Mastery 7 you'll need to level up SEVEN fucking times and DE everything to upgrade your mastery level!

All the while you arent getting champions

Mastery upgrades need to be reduced in price or allow Orange Essence to unlock as well

it's soooooooo expensive! >:( Riot pls fix this

ÚnholyJan 2, 20181 votes

Yeah. I wish I could refund my mastery level 6 and 7 tokens for the BE.

Inkling CommandoOct 3, 20181 votes

mastery tokens aren't hard to upgrade. they are hard to acquire. you get so much BE from the ~~garbage~~ champion capsules that you'll have enough to upgrade when you finally get enough tokens to do so.