PSA: Shyvana is NOT a tank

ForFoxSakes·Dec 14, 2016·47 votes·3,316 views

IS NOT A TANK She is "tanky" because of her high base resists and is a bruiser, but nothing in her kit makes her a tank. No shields, no damage reduction, no combat sustain, no ability scaling with MR/armor with very low CC.

Stop flaming your to go initiate a teamfight with R, because that's a great way for her to dive and get CC & wrecked before the teamfight even happens then try to fight 4v5

Core items are or and . Not hard tank items.

Seeing first pick, pre-announced then everyone else going without showing who they were going to play then saying tank for us is a great way to lose a game in champ select

"But your R gives you HP!" - Ok, go buy a ruby crystal. Now you're a tank right?

52 Comments

SckullzzDec 14, 201615 votes

She's more of a threat-generating tank than a classic protect-the-adc kind of tank.

Only Play DariusDec 15, 20167 votes

There is a very specific term for that exact type of champion, coined over a year ago and explicitly used in the highlight of Shyvana's rework.

SckullzzDec 15, 20161 votes

[{quoted}](name=Jelly Mac,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=eMhlzOGc,comment-id=00060000,timestamp=2016-12-15T01:54:19.960+0000)

There is a very specific term for that exact type of champion, coined over a year ago and explicitly used in the highlight of Shyvana's rework.

And it is STILL a type of tank! :D

Only Play DariusDec 15, 20163 votes

We must be thinking of different terms then.

AtheosisXDec 15, 20165 votes

Juggernauts are not a type of tank. I don't understand how this is still confusing for people.

5000000000000000Dec 15, 20164 votes

If you generate threat using damage and not CC, you're not a tank. That way assassins would be tanks.

Atreus JonesDec 14, 201613 votes

you're right she isn't a tank, she's a juggernaut

ZelorxonDec 14, 20161 votes

No she isn't either, let's pretend for a second that they didn't mauled and butchered her with those disgusting nerfs they smashed upon her, can she safely and carefree just walk to someone and slap him to death? No she can't, she will just die like a bitch in the wrong neighborhood.

On the other hand, real juggernauts such as darius, illaoi, skarner, trundle and nasus to give a few examples, they can, they build decent tank items, have a decent dps, and so they can accomplish their job as juggernauts, right now i would NEVER pick shyvana if my intent was to carry the game and not to be a burden for my teammates. She's right now something in between a bruiser with no real gap closers or damage and a juggernaut with no tankyness.

MobezDec 15, 20167 votes

No real damage? Are we playing the same shyvana because with item 1419 and item 3748 does plenty of damage, if you're fed you can even add item 3153 . She can't wipe a teamfight like darius or illaoi but she is more than capable of dealing out some serious damage, she has way more dps than illaoi or darius

ZelorxonDec 15, 20161 votes

To make her old combo you needed 40% cdr and titanic hydra, usually the cap was reached 20 from trinity, 10 from runes and 10 from visage, right now if you go full damage you do no damage and you're squishier than kha'zix, if you go full tank you don't tank for shit and you do no damage, and there are tanks that outclass you without even breaking a sweat (see maokai, that nobody plays him), if you go a half and half build you will neither be tanky or do damage, and this is just talking about her "in combat status", don't get me started on how she can't splitpush for shit now, reason why they nerfed her since in any elo below diamond she was oppressive in good hands, and this scared away all the kids that spent 30 bucks on that lux skin so riot thought well it was time for her to see the locked basement. Also illaoi and darius deal like double her damage and are double as durable in fight, and to dish out dps you have to be alive.

Kirius DarkDec 15, 20164 votes

So much wrong in this idk if you even play the game

No one EVER builds triforce on shyv. Wasted mana, wasted CDR, wasted sheen proc when Q only works it once
She does a ton of damage with AA-Q especially with hydra and bloodrazor on hits that'll chunk squishies for half their HP in that 1 sec burst. If they werent full HP, AA-Q and W will demolish them
Illaoi and Darius have sustain for long fights and need a long ramp up to do their damage. Shyv is hard burst with AoE and can kill much faster than either of these two
Her passive lets her take dragon solo at level 4 which IMO is more beneficial than the old passive since you get +5 armor and MR for free to let you go tanky, get ~300g of resists without needing to spend anything or take up slots
Nothing from the rework changed how she splitpushes and is just as strong

Only Play DariusDec 15, 20166 votes

I hate playing Darius and not having any sort of teamfight initiation because the rest of my team saw a durable champion toplane and assumed they were covered

RalanrDec 14, 20165 votes

Yes she isn't a tank. But she's also an initiator.

ForFoxSakesDec 14, 201615 votes

She's a backline diver who can wreck squishies but in no way should you ever have her go in first, eat all the CC and lose out on major damage in a teamfight.

The only time you could do it is if theyre all low and lots of CC has been used already

Kirius DarkDec 14, 201612 votes

Not with the rework. Before you could when the flame trails in dragon mode lit up the ground and made everyone move off it or run away from Shyv and dragon mode gave a ton of resists (now 0 resists). Now they just sidestep the dash, CC and kill her

RalanrDec 14, 20162 votes

She can still initiate I just never said it was good teamwide initiation.

ProfirixDec 14, 20165 votes

She actually is not an initiator. She specifically is designed to hit the back line directly. At best, she is a diver.

Sire HippingtonDec 14, 20166 votes

Just like most fighters, she works best as a secondary engage/flank that follows up on the primary engage. If she gets a good opportunity or has something like a orianna ult or Lulu ult that supports her dive, she can initiate, but outside of those combos, it's usually not ideal if she's the primary engage. Just how you'd usually avoid to be the first jumping in as diana or Irelia, you want you opponents to be already distracted so you have some free happy-time in their backline instead of getting peeled and focused down in no time.

RalanrDec 14, 20162 votes

True. But if she's the only engage your team has then you need to engage with her.

Sire HippingtonDec 14, 20163 votes

yes, but then as OP said, you teamcomp is kinda shit and you eventually lost game in champs select(or atleast made the game much harder to win than neccesary)

coreychichiDec 14, 20167 votes

he doesn't need to do shit.

TehNACHODec 14, 20164 votes

Wonder why you're downvoted when you're right :x

ForFoxSakesDec 14, 201615 votes

Bc they wanted me to initiate with R and I refused :O

Linna ExcelDec 14, 20163 votes

She's a bruiser that does best with a mix of damage and defensive items.

KetiDec 14, 20162 votes

Shyvana is best played as a tank

-shyvana player

Kingdom CornDec 15, 20164 votes

{quoted}

Shyvana is best played as a tank

-shyvana player

Nothing in her kit makes her a tank except her ulti giving her a ruby crystal worth of hp. Actual tanks like MALPHITE scale well with armor. Aka more armor more damage that is something shyv doesn't have because she isn't a tank.

bad arcade kittyDec 15, 20161 votes

[{quoted}](name=Kingdom Corn,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=eMhlzOGc,comment-id=00080000,timestamp=2016-12-15T04:30:40.758+0000)

Nothing in her kit makes her a tank except her ulti giving her a ruby crystal worth of hp. Actual tanks like MALPHITE scale well with armor. Aka more armor more damage that is something shyv doesn't have because she isn't a tank.

also some armor/mr on her passive though

but it is mostly items and also her base stats

ForFoxSakesDec 15, 20163 votes

[{quoted}](name=bad arcade kitty,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=eMhlzOGc,comment-id=000800000000,timestamp=2016-12-15T06:39:26.878+0000)

also some armor/mr on her passive though

but it is mostly items and also her base stats

Having higher resists and getting a few tank items doesn't make you a tank Passive: Shyvana deals 10% bonus damage to elemental drakes (including Elder Dragon) and passively gains 5 armor and magic resist Wow +5 to 25 resist. Much tankage!

By that logic I guess If I get an item 3031 I'm an ADC right

Chembaron YamadaDec 15, 20161 votes

Shyvana gets additional max health if she is in dragon form. Why did they add this? Because it synergises well with that item: item 3748

If you build her item 1416 item 3748 into tank, she will be durable while still dealing tons of damage.

My main top laner is Kled, who isn't a tank either. But I build him with item 3071 item 3748 into tank and if my team needs me to be the tank, I will initiate. Yes, the team could have chosen an actual tank to initiate the fight. If they didn't I don't blame them like OP, I just go tank myself and do what I have to do to try to win the game.

AtheosisXDec 15, 20162 votes

Tanks are defined by their cc, not offensive scaling off of defensive stats.

PB4UAMEDec 15, 20165 votes

With all that hard CC and peel, right?

KetiDec 15, 20162 votes

with all the built in damage and reliable gap closer

ForFoxSakesDec 15, 20164 votes

{quoted}

with all the built in damage and reliable gap closer

Which isnt what a tank is. If that's what you'd consider a tank, I guess Jax is a tank then right?

Tanks get full tank items and base abilites are utility to initiate, CC and peel. Shyv doesnt do that, and if you just go pure tank on her people can just walk straight past your initiation to go after the carries

KetiDec 16, 20161 votes

Jax doesn't have shyvana's bases. Jax has to build damage to get it and scales harder with it than shyvana does.

You also definitely can't ignore her, Especially now that her ult middle fingers any interrupt attempts, her base damage or tank build into hydra lets her tear through basically everything. with the defensive stats you get you typically do more damage in the long run than if you built garbage like bork or triforce.

ForFoxSakesDec 28, 20162 votes

Base damage isnt that high and you go hydra before tank otherwise you'll have a slow ass clear and not be a threat. No one builds triforce on shyv and botrk is still very viable

KetiDec 29, 20161 votes

by the time you get hydra clear speed is irrelevant. W is enough to blast through camps in seconds. Hydra is good for the active and teamfight AoE threat if they clump up. But really the most meta thing to do on shyv is to rush mallet after bloodrazor.

ElfOfTheDesertDec 14, 20161 votes

Out of that team you are the frontline so.. GL being bad.

ForFoxSakesDec 14, 201624 votes

They shit picked to make her the front line. So what if I went Khazix ? Hey Fiora go tank for us

SpoofghoulDec 15, 20162 votes

Fiora no problem

Proceeds to take warlords bloodlust and build item 3074 item 3072 item 3812 item 3071 as usual

PB4UAMEDec 15, 20164 votes

Right, so your teammates making uterrly brain dead decisions means a juggernaut or diver (Durable melee carries/anti carries) should try to play a role they have no part in? These champs want to do damage and kill people, not tank damage and save their teams.

It would honestly make more sense to try to throw them in mid or bot as a carry than to try to make them into a tank as they have no CC, or way to redirect damage to them, so they literally have no way to be a tank.

agbudarDec 14, 20161 votes

never underestimate full tank Sona that shit is scary

ZelorxonDec 14, 20161 votes

Hey, someone just laughed at me because i said shyvana sucks after manining her/almost onetricking her (for real), don't you dare to say that she isn't tanky for shit and every dps/bruiser build is laughable on her!

Also 10% more damage to dragons.

She is "tanky" because of her high base resists

Yeah, throw away that joint jimmy...

MFTORANK1Dec 14, 20161 votes

She's a beast in bronze/silver because people can't dodge her ulti and she feels unkillable because no one can kit, no she's not a tank but she's a low elo monster. A friend of mine played her after not playing for 6 months and he went 10/2 in bronze elo lol ..

SpecterVonBarenDec 15, 20161 votes

RekSai Has nothing to make her a tank other than having an aoe knock up yet that's all she's good for now.

PB4UAMEDec 15, 20161 votes

Vision, heals, an AoE hard CC that is uncleansable and unmitigated by tenacity, and very little damage scaling? Hmm, hard to see her as anything other than a durable bruiser or vanguard.

ErockandrollDec 15, 20161 votes

{quoted}

Has nothing to make her a tank other than having an aoe knock up yet that's all she's good for now.

She has the utility of her tunnels, her global pressure, and the unique echo location ability. Non of those abilities particularly needs anything to scale. (AKA, you don't play Rek'sai as a Vanguard expecting a world class Vanguard, you play it that way because that's helps her make use of that utility.)

Defensive itemization is probably the safest option for just about any champion. (Unless your the ADC or the APC, where your expected to supply the damage) you really can't go wrong with extra survivability.

But that's kinda her last Trump card. If Riot decided that her Vanguard build was a problem, she would have no where else to go, unless Riot found a new way to support her as a skirmisher.

Reaper SorakaDec 15, 20161 votes

If you have a lot of lifesteal and do ridiculous amounts of damage, does that make you a tank? I'm an awesome MF tank if so :D

EXE FallenKnightDec 15, 20161 votes

while I agree with this I also want to add she isnt an assassin either so please, please, PLEASE build bruiser items, and at least one (preferably two) full tank items. dont go item 3153 item 1419 item 3072 item 3124 item 3074 PLEASE!!!