[Gameplay Discussion] - Mordekaiser

Decrit··4 votes·1,838 views

Hey all! I am a big Mordekaiser passionate fan, and i wanted to discuss about his kit. Mordekaiser

Morde is is a weird place, among the old champions with clunky kits, and does not see competitive by a long time. One of the reasoning he is underplayed is because of his lack of straight team contribution, a really powerful ultimate that suffers from the poor minion control system and unclear role, but still i play him because it offers me things that other champions do not and play him everywhere ( in the beginning top, but later on even as a support!). Still i would like changes to his kit, in order to feel fair compared to other champions and to better stick to his niche and personality ( i will do a post about that later ), so i had my load of ideas by a long time, and i want to comment and share them with you!


What he is

First of all it must be determined what he is in fight: a reckless and mastodontic warrior of metal or a locus of destructive magic, the actual most played build? To be honest, i like them both because the idea of a metal tower that devastates the enemy team with powerful area skills while mantaining on his feet thanks to the very pain it deals to his enemies compels me, but i would also actually like to see him in an actual warrior way where he smashes his enemies while keeping even more on his feets thanks to his powers, so a kit that somewhat allows both build would be really nice.


Heavy Metal

One of his problems is absence of speed-slows in order to stick to a target or escape. To be honest however i like his lack of cc and speed boosts because-- dodges rotten tomatoes and bricks -- i was saying, i like that because that could be his niche: the unstoppable warrior, that does not run but in case of retreat fight his way back and which reach has no need of true stickness. One of the things i love about Morde is that when i have to run from somebody in order to run away effectively i must turn back and attack them in order to fill my sheld. I mean, it' s clunky and weird but it' s so HIM! I would like that aspect be mantained, maybe enhanced as his own effective way to fall back and in case revengekill. Probably some stuff in order to get Tenacity would fill better, or CC immunity since we are talking about an iron clad armor dude without proper body.


The proposal I' m aiming to identify what would make him unique and enhance it. bear in mind mine are proposal number-less, so if it turns out OP it can be rebalanced, or maybe just discussed up that ^^ Remember that this is only my iteration, that might have faults or problems, and while i think that is a good way it is only a way like an other to better demostrate my concerns, and to better identify the power aspects i like more and i don' t like! ( i will also consider the possibility of builds with AD, mostly for completion rather praticity )

  • His Passive is mostly fine as it is, maybe enhancing the shield generation for les soffensive build in order to open ub a bit more tanky builds. Mostly i wanted him to get slow resistance per level as long he has a part of shield ( thinking 15/20/25% or something like that, so he reaches a good 60% with tenacity ) because that is the only thing that hampens him in teamfights: not really hard cc-s, but slows that makes him kitable to infinity. I was actually thinking about giving full CC reduction, where the CC applied after the damage dealt so skills with enough damage potential can perforate a thin layer of shield and still fully affect him. Also remember numbers are only indicatory.

  • Not changes, but i think Mace of Spades (Q) should be his primary form of damage in any kind of build. Maybe giving a better AD scaling for focused peel damage and AP for better damage overall but with the AP component that deals area damage would give some intresting results. Most importantly i would like to see a more reliable way to determine his targets: maybe adopt the isolation system of Kha' zix?

  • I was thinking about making Creeping Death(W) his primary form of sustain by allowing, for each damage dealt, a fixed amount of shield generated; the flat shield generation would allow more Ap lacking builds to keep generating shield even with lack of damage. Plus i would really like to see an increased range, mostly so he can run safely away from enemies even if he left them a little bit behind because those AAed him, it' s not good to see the enemy that sticks on your back but because he attacks you and remaing behind avoids part of the damage, and you of the shield.

  • I think Syphon od Destruction (E) is the most spammed, overused, least meaningful in teamfights ( compared to Mace of Spades ) but also one of the primary means to deal damage in lane and in grouped up teams and gor shield generation. It is also horribly thematically attached to Morde and has really low counterplay, so it is weak but annoying in lane: any kind of straight buffs would make it really toxic. However i tought a kind niche for it: making it reduce the enemy magic resistance on hit; that would compel Morde users to hit with the Mace, would give utility in teamfights and would benefit a lot more Tanky users, plus making a good warm-up for his ult. Remember that even if build AD, Mace of spades deals fully magic damage!

  • Children of the Grave. To be honest, looking at the actual minion control situation, i would like to see the power of this skill shifted in some way, like focusing more on dealing damage but halving the ghost duration ( actually is 30 secs ). In few words, don' t remove the minion aspect but reduce the impact of the control system on this skill.

EDIT: changed few stuff, removed mana scaling and removed tenacity but kept as a proposal.


What do you think about him? What ideas do you have instead? How many rotten tomatoes sales are around? Let me know :D

11 Comments

Omnipherious3 votes

Forgive me, but I think you are trying to stick too much to the current version of Mordekaiser.

His scaling is all over the place: Passive - Scales off Levels, AP damage dealt, Resistances Q - Scales off Total AD, Bonus AD, Bonus AP, Number of Targets W - Scales off AP, *Health, Resistances when cast on self since survival increases power E - Scales off AP R - Damage/Heal (AP + Enemy Max HP) Ghost HP (Enemy Max HP + 15% Mord HP) Ghost AD (Enemy Lv. 1 Base AD + Enemy Item Bonus AD + 75% Mord total AD) Ghost AP (Enemy total AP + 75% Mord AP) Ghost MS (Enemy base MS + Mord Boots Bonus) Mord Buff (20% of Ghost total AD & AP)

Just look at that. Before we can go into anything else, Mordekaiser needs clarification. His theme + role need to be decided, and I'm confident that Mordekaiser will be quite different post-rework.

What's fun about Mordekaiser? Offense for defense philosophy, Shield management, Getting a 6th man What's not fun about Mordekaiser? His visuals are confusing, No real thought behind ability use outside of deal damage for shield What fantasy does Mordekaiser fulfill? Soulstealing Juggernaut (Thresh imprisons souls for power, Mordekaiser should rip it from you) Should he be AD or AP? AP fits soulstealing better, AD fits giant mace + metal visage better, so pick one. Does Mordekaiser need CC? I don't think so.

Decrit1 votes

You. Yeah you. I like you. I don' t agree with everything but i like it.

I agree the scaling is all over the place ( in the next edit gotta remove mana scaling ), thing that is his weak point: by havening scaling all over the place makes almost any item choice meaningless, while he should have some base good scaling and some other choices. I agree that his theme + role needs to be better decided, thing that was also exposed in my thread and on which i wanted to discuss. What he is?


What' s fun about Mordekaiser? I agree on your vision here, where a calculated and aggressive combat style translates also in a bruiserish and long-time one. What' s not fun about him? Partly agree, because i think that damage for shield management is a compelling part of his kit. However i agree that those kits needs further depth by their own, like the Q having a more precise way to select the damage it deals ( maybe checking only for nearby champions and not minions included? giving an isolation-kind style of check? something more clearer ) and E being... something else. really, everything but that E. It feels really useless in teamfights and annoying in lanes. What fantasy does Moderkaiser fill? Here i agree the soulstealer part, but i don' t think it is the only one. Actually for me that is only a detail, he aims no more to entrap enemy soul than mashing their face on the battle field. He is a bruiser, a tempest of damage that stands in the middle of the moshpit of the enemy team dealing damage and holding on his feet as long as he can. He is not a tank so he has to be careful, he is not a mage so he has to get near, but he deals a great amount to pressure to the enemy team until he manages to snatch away the targeted soul, thing that he can hardly do alone because he is not really an assassin. Also he is a lane pusher and a lane bully, and he can manage 1v2 lanes because he manages and pushes it so well that he is troublesome even for 2 people together, and this fits together with the bruiser tempest of damage pressure thing i just described. Should he be AD or AP? Why no both? i mean, if we stick to only AP we are probably ending to a only kind of build with few other choices, while giving some more AD/tanky stuff choices then the thing expand a bit but not too much out of control. I mean, his Q translated all damage done in magical so he recharges well shield, that in teamfights requires few time aniway, while he would be also more resistand and a better duelist in order to land the ulti. Only thing that does not fit well is E, but that is the major constrictor also in a lot of stuff. Does Mordekaiser need CC? Same here, he does not.

EDIT: i looked back at the reply and then i saw all the grammar erros. My English today is dead x_x fixes up

C9 Squeeky 2 votes

With all of that heavy metal (heh heh) Morde is very slow so like you said, he has to turn around and fight. If he's caught, kill or be killed. Sticking to an enemy and running away are his weaknesses so a item 3116 feels essential although just about all of his abilties do AoE damage so it would only get 15% slow. I don't think he needs tenacity with his shield since it already blocks damage and he can basically get a shield with every spell (as long as he damages). His E visual looks like it should be a knock-up but that'd sound too much like Cho'gath (his knock-up is delayed and avoidable). What I don't care for is that his R only does % max hp/sec which in theory can be good against tanks but I feel like I can only use it when the target is about to die (I think Zilean ult counters Morde's ult so that sucks).

Decrit1 votes

Also for all that heavy metal should not affected by all those ccs :c Sometimes is a real pain, however i changed mind and translated the tenacity to his passive and changed in movement speed reduction resistance, thing that maybe is less edgy but still gives to him good stuff in order to not get too much behind :D I don' t pick very much item 3116 because the slow is negligible on Morde and it gives too much health, while he does not need very much. But now with the latest changes where they reduced health and increased AP is a little more worth..?

Rinky Dinky2 votes

A change to mordekaiser would be a great thing, as long as his kit isnt completely changed. Mordekaiser is my go to anti-poke tanky midlaner, and I would be devistated if he was to recieve a fullscale rework.

I think do like the idea's that you have given for the most part, and yes, his scalings do need some work. But, I do not think his e should be nerfed to the point where all it really does is give a MR shred, at least, something else needs to be given to him if this happens. It is his most used source of damage in lane due to its poke potential, and without it, he would be horrible outclassed in lane, and his shield would lose alot of its benefits. He also relies on this for farming in most situations. What Im thinking, is that maybe the flat damage on e should be a bit higher, but have a weaker scaling (Maybe 280 flat at rank 5, and an AP scaling of the damage could be .4), and the MR shred portion should have a scaling of .1, with the flat being maybe 10 at rank 5.

His ult right now I think is fine, It can be used for a variety of purposes. It can be used for crazy sustain in teamfights if you pop it on the enemy tank. It can be used for peel with the use of rylai's crystal scepter, and it alsohas the unique ability of giving you a sixth man. If minion control mechanics were fixed, his ult would be alot more reliable. I think its fine. However, if his e was to recieve a damage nerf, and was to gain the MR shred, I think his ult should increase all damage delt to the target by 20% for the duration, along with the current damages. Could be 10%, 15%, ans 20% at rank 3.

The idea's you presented for his W are excellent, and I would love to see them implemented. Lets just not make the fixed amount too crazy xD

And his Q does need some work, as it doesnt have much going for it early game. Its mostly a farm tool, and cant be used in actually combat until morde tanks up, which I guess is fair, considering his current e. However, if the e's damage recieves nerfs, and is more of a shred ability (That hopefully provides damage still :3), his q needs either a bit more damage, or a shorter cooldown. It needs something.

Alot of people who play mordekaiser like the way he feels, and many tears would be shed if he recieved a rework that completely changed the champ. I love my morde, and would hate to see his fundementals go. I do really enjoy the idea's you have pressented so far, and I am interested to see if Riot would consider this.

Decrit1 votes

Hey, thanks for the kind words, i am pleased it is liked :D

Probably you are right about E, I loathe it a very lot because it makes him less the "metal warrior" he could and more of a weird kind of mage. However i listened to your reasoning, and while i keep my opinion in the OP i want to consider leaving just as it is or with minor tweaks. Scaling should not be reduced further because the skill already has a low one combined with a great base damage that scales well with ranks ( the rk 1 damage is a joke, but at 2 kick in!) but not with game phases, so i like the idea of the scaling application; if not MR it can be something else, however i would like that something to be a team-wide benefit else he is going to lack team contribution in the late game ( even if his own pushing abilities are already a well enough contribution it' s better give to him some little teamfight utility, since all of his other skills except the ult are mostly tools for him ) so while in lane he does not become more oppressive he has some tools for the late, and not a simple stat reduction that does not relate well with his identity or kit. Probably something related to his positioning, since in TF you are rewarded for positioning in a way to hit most champions possible? Obviously not cc, not only those would be weak compared to other ccs ingame but as we already said those do not fit, at least in this mine vision.

Rinky Dinky2 votes

Morde wouldnt fit very well with cc imo, he is more of an offense is the best defense kind of champ. So I do think the shred on e is a good idea, just as long as its compensated for somewhere else in his kit. Combining mine and your changes, I am seeing a very fun new morde xD

woozyweasel1 votes

"To be honest, i like them both because the idea of a metal tower that devastates the enemy team with powerful area skills while mantaining on his feet thanks to the very pain it deals to his enemies compels me"

COMPELS you? Hmm... scary much?

Decrit1 votes

checks translator

ooooooopsie xP wanted to say allure. well, i had toe dit stuff aniway

Jackofheartz1 votes

As a fellow Morde lover, I definitely like some of what you suggested here. Morde is one of the few champs I feel is in a really good place, but a few tweaks would make him better.

Passive: I think his passive is fine as-is. My only issue with his passive as it is now is that the shield has set limits when I think it should scale with health. At level 18 it hits a limit of 630, but that gets knocked down quick when in the middle of the fight. Having the limit scale on health allows tankier builds to have a higher upper limit to stay tanky, while mage builds will be unaffected.

Q: You're absolutely right, Q is fine, but should be focused as his main damage ability (rather than E currently).

W: I actually really like W as it is. I don't think it really needs flat generation because if you're playing as you should (in the middle of everything), the damage being dealt is enough to keep the passive going.

E: I agree completely with your suggestion for E. Right now, it is spammable and annoying for enemy laners and should not do as much damage as it does. The mr shred would be perfect for this ability as it would do more damage if the enemy was consistantly hit by it. This introduces more interactive gameplay for both Morde and the opponent. Good job on this one.

R: Minion/clone control is currently very clunky in this game. I'd like to see it improved with all champs (mostly just sticking to the target I assigned). I really think your idea for this is too OP though, this ability is pretty good as-is.

Getting down to it, I think Morde's current identity is pretty good. He is strongest when he is right in the middle of a fight, as his damage will keep his shield up.

A see a lot of postings about his lack of CC and how hard it is to stick to your target. This is an ok weakness to me. If I have issues with CC, I build mercury's. If i need to stick more, there's Furor on boots, Rylai's, Gunblade. There are options to help out with this, and counterplay is an important part of a healthy champ.

Decrit1 votes

Nice to see feedback :D

I wanted to find a better solution for E, one that did not involve straight stat reduction, but probably this one fits so well that will be fine aniway. The ulti thing was only a band-aid fix to let it lessen the focus on the ghost, thing that i really love but it' s not really much usable at the moment (hoping for a better control mechanic too!) and the skill stuff only a crazy proposal that jumped in my mind to see what others would think about it. Howerver i would like to see at least a little range effect increase on W, mostly for the chase thing, while the flat damage application could be really discarded. I don' t really like the armor-mres buff because it only messes up itemization needs and gives a "ball of stat" effect, and i would gladly discard that for some other cool effect.

However he needs badly some kind of CC resistance, or at least something that allows him to keep up with the enemy. Let' s be honest, i am all for weaknesses and weak spots for a champion but not only Morde has many other of them, but this CC thing is a real killer and is among the few core reason he is not even considered in more serious picks, besides cc contribution. He is melee, as such he is really reliant on position and capability to work around that, and since the first ideas I ( and some other people that agreed with me ) decided to not give to him CCs and speed/dashes. So CC reduction remains the only thing to do, besides total damage/cc avoidance like Yasuo and Braum, but i am not sure how that might work. I agree he has after all a pretty wide itemization, bot those don' t suffice with his needs and also have an high price for that ( lack of magic pen on boots for tenacity, lack of shield and pressure for aoe slow, high uptime for slow on gunblade ); the items needs to exist for round up his potential, and not to cover up weaknesses.

It' s not even without counterplay since the main reason i decided to give the passive this CC reduction is because so the enemy can wear it off and apply CC at full effect, giving clear up and down moments.

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