This makes me sad

Malicious Metal··120 votes·8,042 views

http://orig04.deviantart.net/8328/f/2015/309/b/a/morde_rework_by_roughnut-d9fl7w0.jpg

This statement regarding Morde's direction made me actually quite happy back in the day. The thought of him basically becoming a true AP bruiser with less burst, more consistent damage and more durability just seemed to match his thematics a lot better as well as giving him a healthier spot in the game.

Fast forward to the present day; -Morde's squishier due to low base armor/health, nerfed shield gain and lack of mobility biting him in the ass. -He doesn't kill slower, his Q being one of the burstiest abilities in the game with a mere 4 second CD. Given, his other skills do pitiful damage. -Ap builds aren't nearly as common as they should be.

What went wrong? Did they mix things up? 'Cause I'd rather have a tankier morde with consistent DPS feeding into his shield than what we currently got. Hell. what the hell happened to this statement? It was something most Morde mains would have agreed on and actually could even be achieved with his current kit with moderate retooling and a decent amount of tweaks.

67 Comments

Adrian Umbra59 votes

I feel like (and this isn't just blind hate of the guy) CT happened to the rework. Damage over time turned into the obscene burst of his new Q. Solo lane Morde was given up on due to "being too toxic" and he was instead thrown into bot lane as an "experiment" with his new W passive and the dragon ghost. His durability was nerfed from there to put him more on par with ADCs and to "compensate" for his new shield storage element of his passive, his E damage was nerfed so that he wasn't overbearing in the harass war early on, and he was given a form of sustain when with a partner to help him throughout the early levels. His base stats were nerfed because he was going too fast and being too sticky with Rylai's and Triforce and abusing his Q base damage.

None of this was really necessary. Morde is just as toxic in a duo lane as he was in solo, he's generally burstier and more binary than ever before, he was permabanned at World's and still has a high ban rate in ranked, and fits NONE of the vision they had for him. It's the definition of a failed rework. And almost every reason it failed can be traced back to the fact that they just kept ADDING to his kit.

ModKnightsKemplar28 votes

This is spot on.

I would add, though, that if Meddler said that they originally planned to go tanky, they had a build at one point testing that. I believe that. But I imagine it wasn't fun to play. And that's when CT stepped in. Whether you like his stuff or not, he's earning a reputation as someone who has ambitious, over-the-top designs. If that's what they feel Morde needed, I can understand passing it to CT.

The "Iron Revenant" (I guess I'll refer to his new title...) doesn't sound like a squishy DPS, though, which is what CT did. He should be a Juggernaut. You know, like other Juggernauts he was released with. Having a vision where he replaced the ADC wasn't ever going to deliver on that and be balanced. I'm sorta baffled that they missed that point. It's an important one.

Personally, I think it's time to revisit him... it's soon, yeah, but oh well! He's broken, and needs a fix! Go back to old Morde, give him a slow on E or something so his lumbering slowness is less of a problem, give him health or armor scaling on W (and possibly on Q) and let him be a Juggernaut. It's time, Rito.

Adrian Umbra13 votes

"No mobility, no CC" was a mantra for designing Mordekaiser and one that I actually fully support. I fully believe that he can be a viable champion without either of those things. But when you stick so much of his damage on an ability that takes time to get out, you decrease his overall durability, and you drop his very limited mobility even further with nerfs to his movement speed, you have a very binary champion who relies on a lot of other factors besides "Get close, hit hard" (the juggernaut creed) in order to succeed.

"Can I complete Rylai's? Do I have teammates with tons of CC? Will my team follow up on my ultimate? Can we afford to contest Dragon at all? Do we have a frontline besides just me? Will we be able to siege towers with our team composition?" All of these questions are important for Mordekaiser in a way that they just aren't for other juggernauts. He's got some cool stuff, but requires so much to succeed that they couldn't help but make him an overloaded champion. He's binary, clunky, squishier than ever, very little like his old self, and represents a large scale balance problem. And none of this was truly necessary.

t0ad57 votes

[{quoted}](name=Adrian Umbra,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=rjux4f4y,comment-id=000100000000,timestamp=2015-11-05T17:00:10.217+0000)

And none of this was truly necessary.

Quoted for truth.

ModKnightsKemplar4 votes

Yeah, you're absolutely right. I think the only thing I don't feel as strongly about is the "no mobility, no CC" mantra.

I can totally understand the people who still want that, and I totally agree it's possible. My previous comment, of course, didn't reflect a belief that he needs that. It's the same statement I was kind of already making; if they can do "no mobility, no CC" and keep him true to Morde, great. If they can't, and (somehow) the only choices (according to their thinking) are:

  1. broken champ

or

  1. champ with CC

then I vote the 2nd one. But, I agree that it really should be possible to make Morde more like Garen, who doesn't need a slow to succeed. My comment was more about demonstrating that there are plenty of ideas they haven't tried. I don't know that I would like Morde with health scaling and a slow, but it would be better than the current mess.

Chicken4dinner1 votes

Why give mord sustain if his passive is a purely defensive shield to cover his hp costs? Any form of protection vlad tries to grab outside of his sustain costs heaps. Vi only has one form of protection and she is still one of the strongest jglers right now, and I think it is small details like this that make mord either too overbearing or not making sense at all and useless. I have played Morde quite heavily on one of my other accounts and found his e is pointless early unless you are about to abuse your shield for an early engage while coordinating a vamp with your support, making you really hard to kill but at the same time without having any dps of your own.

I think mord should fit more around the revenant and iron themes focusing on tankyness in the undeath, otherwise we keep what we have at the moment and shelve it with a sticker saying "needs more work".

To finish: Mord doesn't need 50 different systems to work with, only a few that complement him. Also Mord is a simple guy, he just wants to steal an enemy player and wreck havoc with his corpse. Don't turn him into something else.

Adrian Umbra1 votes

His passive traditionally doesn't cover his health costs (especially with the new shield generation rates), it almost always will cost more to use your spells than you'll get back out of them. Yes, even with his new E. That's why Riot decided after playtesting that sustain would likely be necessary and added it on to his W to allow him to stay in lane with ADCs. Whether or not this was a good idea at all is up for debate. You're also bringing up a point that we've continuously raised in regards to this rework, that's it's just too much, which is a classic CT complaint.

Your comparisons to Vi and Vlad are also... baffling, to say the least. Vlad is a sustain god, one whose fairly low health costs are overwhelmed by healing from his free and spammable Q. Vlad will almost always make an HP profit with his abilities, something that Morde simply cannot do since the health cost was added to his W. Vi is a mana based champion and thus should really not be compared to a health-cost based champion, as her shield is essentially just gravy on top of any other sustain she may get and does not need to offset health costs.

And as for your suggestion about how he should focus more on tankiness and undeath, how would you like to accomplish that?

Chicken4dinner1 votes

My focus was not on hp cost casting but for overloading the ways in which champions can do something. Like when J4 could give armour and gain a shield slow.

Vi and vlad were my examples of champs who are not over-kitted per say focusing on the topic of defensive options.

Although I might have misled you with my poor structure

Jeddy0173 votes

And almost every reason it failed can be traced back to the fact that they just kept ADDING to his kit.

So in other words,Morde just needs a kit update where 1-5 (including his passive) of his abilities are changed?He also need a VU.

Raid Boss Morde2 votes

I never saw old Mordekaiser as "damage over time", but more of a burst champ than today. It could just be the way I played/built him, so bare with me.

A lot of people are forgetting how STRONG his old Q was. His old Q could potentially take 50% of most squishy champion's hp mid-late game. Combine that with how strong his old E was, you could easily flash Q + E + Ignite to kill people, or even a simple flash + E + R. His old damage was very bursty... his new kit does indeed have burst, but with just one ability, although a VERY strong ability. In order to burst people now, you gotta stack your Q up to the 3rd strike, flash + auto against squishies.

The problem with his new burst is that it is MUCH more telegraphed than before. Giant Red glowing mace. If you see him with this, you know to back up, or expect a flash + Q to the face. Before the rework, there was no way you could react to his burst. Heck, even in lane, once he got enough items, if you were too close to minions at half health, expect an E + R + Ignite. Lategame, you have to hope Mordekaiser doesn't flash E + R combo you, because there weren't any signs of his burst.

Like I said, I may have built him differently in mid lane. I would go AP/Resistances (Hourglass, Ryalis, Abyssal) with Dcap/Ludens and Void Staff.

Battlecast Sona6 votes

The actual problem is that Riot doesn't WANT him to burst, but instead they just made his burst have ridiculous conditions (making the character very strong with certain supports and item builds but garbage with basically anything else)

Raid Boss Morde10 votes

Yeah, I know that. They changed his burst into a much more difficult to use burst... he seriously needs a full on rework right now, not this "rework" that we got.

Reworks are supposed to fix issues, not create MORE!

Malicious Metal11 votes

Sigh... I'd love a rework that would be influenced by his new lore, metal songs and general badassery.

Heck, he should be a real Heavy Metal Juggernaut! Not a walking Joke of a champion ;(

ForeverLaxx2 votes

Well, I mentioned this before in the patch notes when they were posted, but due to the way reddit-style forums work, it wasn't noticed.

Morde isn't the "Master of Metal" anymore. They changed his title. They aren't going back to a "metal" theme; there won't be anything heavy or brutal about him once they finally get him to a place they want him to be. He is now the "Iron Revenant", implying he's just a reanimated body or spirit inside of an iron suit of armor. Swinging that giant mace around is about the only heavy thing he'll be doing thanks to the changes they're lining up. They've already removed the spiked balls from his Siphon, and it's only a matter of time before Harvester gets its metal bits shaven off.

The King is dead. Long live the King.

Blue Moon Wolf2 votes

I'm just waiting till riot releases a new melee ADC replacement champ and they try to say something along the lines of "since morde worked so well, we decided to make another, but this time with healthy mechanics". The only things they did well with his rework was piss off every morde fan and teach us that a melee can replace an ADC if his kit is loaded with cheap gimmicks, is given the most overpowered Q possible and gains an almost free heal on top of the heal that the support likely has on them. Give him and a champ like Taric both a item 3302 and they become a weapon of mass bulls*it.

Stars Shaper22 votes

Funny thing is that old Morde was closer to what they wrote.

Jakra21 votes

I must say, Malicious Metal. I do admire your consistent posts regarding Mordekaiser as of late. It's nice to see you're passionate (If that's the right word) regarding Mordekaiser.

Pyro12 votes

I was actually all for AD Morde. I feel like Triforce + Sterak's Gage was a great direction that unfortunately did not work (because as a melee champion without any CC Morde just desperately needed Rylai's).

The problem with Morde rework is that by rule noone but ranged ADCs can work in a 2v2 duo lane. So in order to make Morde work in 2v2, they had to make him so disgustingly broken that the inherent disadvantages of this melee-vs-ranged-with-support matchup could be trumped. Morde could be balanced in 2v2 if he wasn't the only melee to work there.

Also, personally if I were to conduct a Morde rework, I'd rather have him scale with armor/MR, much like Malphite or Rammus. He's the master of metal, and he should draw his strength from armor. A true Nasus-esque Juggernaut playstyle (tanky, immobile, deals huge damage over time if left untouched) would fit him better.

Need Gold 4 Tent2 votes

I wonder though, why not just make him AD? As in not just AD scaling, but doing full physical rather than hybrid so he can actually make use of stuff like item 3071 and item 3142. I can see him being a Sion-ish champ (if you're looking at theme), big, tanky, hard to kill and smashes people with a big axe spikey club.

Adrian Umbra2 votes

IMO because that would be too much of a departure from his old state. Riot promised that he would remain AP and that promise was overall kept (and is generally considered the optimal build). Janky AD scalings seemed mostly added to his E to keep the ability from being attractive to max first (and stuffs most of its damage into his lategame AD scaling), his Q is an empowered auto attack anyway, and otherwise his scalings are pure AP. The biggest issue, of course, is that the AD scaling of his Q attempts to pull a coup and take over his build.

So as a longtime Morde player, I'd rather keep the Rylai's first build so that I can actually catch my targets instead of rushing uselessly after them with Youmuu's or having to build up stacks on BC.

Baron of Bread3 votes

Old Mordekaiser worked as a bot lane carry. The changes they did to him were completely unnecessary if they just wanted him viable bot lane, they had to shoehorn him into only going bot lane. By changing him so that he relied on a support they needed to make actually working together pay off better, which ended with him getting some broken mechanics.

Pale Pirate1 votes

He's the master of metal

Nope not anymore [zombie-nunu-tears]

TWGdabeast6 votes

If they would actually take the time to make a good mordekaiser, a juggernaut, not a wannabe jug dragging his feet around, one who can sustain that shield unless heavily pressured.

One that can be tanky and live through a fight, AND ACTUALLY HAVE THE SPEED TO STAY IN A FIGHT.

I used to really request CC on the big guy. So don't make is sonic. Defeats his image. Indominable will? Make it some CC.

Plz, I like playing a tanky Morde.

JUST MAKE MORDE VIABLE AND ABLE TO SURVIVE THIS MARKSMAN UPDATE PLEASE,

THEN, ONCE HE CAN LIVE THROUGH THAT NIGHTMARE... PUT HIM IN A NICE COMFY SPOT PLEASE...

t0ad55 votes

CertainlyTerribad change and needs revert.

Tengrichan5 votes

Is it me or solo lane Mordekaser simply doesn't work(just looked up his winrate on champion.gg ...)?His Q comes out so slow even if i hit the enemy they deal just as much dmg as my Q in that time. His base AS is just horrible.I can't even fathom how that went through. Also after the W nerf and the incoming marksman update he will vanish because won't be able to compete with new ad carries.His overall placement went down by 4 since the latest patch and now sits at 15th place out of 20. Sure he has the highest winrate among AD carries but overall he isn't that good anymore.

KnivingDude5 votes

Nice thread Malicious Metal.

Thank you for the great quality threads.

Penns4 votes

Shocking picture found on Penns' PC! https://i.gyazo.com/79534b7b14a8b1e3b33ed2a727b9724d.png tips fedora

jk It took me 5 minutes to find that post, u couldve posted a link here :[

Penta Penguin4 votes

make morde thread, get upvotes

Ardond1 votes

yep, sad that people have to up vote it though.

just a memory4 votes

My condolences Malicious Metal.Mordekaiser

Old Morde: AP Burst Champion - QWERflashQ = squishy opponent, dead. 6v4 with new ghostly ADC. New Morde: AD/Hybrid Burst Champion - QQFlashQWER = squishy opponent, dead. 6v4 with new ghostly ADC.

The reality is that nothing on Mordekaiser has really changed, just the items he uses. Old Morde built tons of AP, could burst/delete squishies, get somewhat tanky due to shield, and in the right circumstances could go 1v5. New Mordekaiser does the same exact things, except now he builds AD/Hydrid instead.

If Riot decides to make Mordekaiser more sustained damage versus burst damage, then they need to throw away his current ultimate. His ultimate makes him want to kill the ult-marked target and if he cannot easily do this (ie sustained damage) then the ultimate needs to go. It sounds like Riot wants to turn him into a teamfight-oriented Tank/Juggernaut. To make this work Riot would also have to buff his shield mechanics, base Health and Armor, and Health and Amor per level. If they want to keep him as a melee Burst Mage, then they need only to tweak his kit abilities.

Old/New Mordekaiser is one of those champions that is a balance nightmare. The slightest buff/nerf to his kit's numbers can make him OP or UP quickly. There does not seem to be any middle ground with his Old/New kit. Riot would have to drastically rework his kit and change his identity if they ever wanted to make his more fair. But trying to make Mordekaiser fair is like trying to make Katarina fair, if Kat can easily get Double, Triple, and Pentakills, she is overbearing and OP, and if she cannot, she is useless and UP. Ultimately for both champions, being able to delete champions is central to their kits because all they offer is damage. Mordekaiser has some more utility because of his ghost, but otherwise, all Mordekaiser has to offer is damage. Because Morde is a MELEE MAGE without any CC, his playstyle becomes binary: either he deals his damage payload and gets the ghost or he fails and becomes useless.

  • For example, if Annie became melee and had to walk into melee range to cast Q, her ability to deal damage would be gimped, so Riot would have to buff her base stats or give her E a shield or something to prevent her from being blown up every time she walked into melee range. Annie would be kited to no end and her kit would become binary like Morde's.

Perhaps Mordekaiser should become a Ranged Mage (close/mid range), making his ability to deal damage more consistent. Of course they would have to rework his numbers, a Ranged Q that dealt 1200+ damage would be ridiculous. (Although Ranged AD Carries begin to deal up to 600-1200+ damage late game, just saying)

Or perhaps Mordekaiser needs more CC or utility to help him or his teammates. Numerous things have been suggested, personally I think he needs a slow on his Ultimate (Like Nasus W: Wither). A really strong slow on his ultimate would force opponents to spend flash or take massive buttloads of damage because Mordekaiser was able to get into melee range and Mace of Spades them across the face. Currently, Mordekaiser has absolutely no CC, so pairing him up in the botlane with a CC-centric champion (Leona) so he can cover the ground (units) to deliver his damage payload.

"Misery loves company." Too true for Mordekaiser Mains, -RockJockey

Baron of Bread4 votes

One big difference between new Morde and old Mordekaiser is that Mordekaiser didn't have endless frustration for not being able to use one of his abilities and did not rely on his babysitter to do anything. There are other differences, such as new Morde having piss all durability in comparison and old Mordekaiser being able to walk at a pace befitting his power, but that was one of the biggest ones.

As for your ideas for changes, they would completely destroy what little of Mordekaiser there is left. Mordekaiser should have no CC and no mobility (I still don't like his speed boost). Mordekaiser should be in your face, crushing it with his mace and ripping your soul to pieces. Mordekaiser should be a walking death zone that is difficult to destroy as it bears down on your team, annihilating all who try to intercept its path.

just a memory1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Baron of Bread,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=rjux4f4y,comment-id=000b0000,timestamp=2015-11-05T19:54:05.650+0000)

One big difference between new Morde and old Mordekaiser is that Mordekaiser didn't have endless frustration for not being able to use one of his abilities and did not rely on his babysitter to do anything. There are other differences, such as new Morde having piss all durability in comparison and old Mordekaiser being able to walk at a pace befitting his power, but that was one of the biggest ones.

As for your ideas for changes, they would completely destroy what little of Mordekaiser there is left. Mordekaiser should have no CC and no mobility (I still don't like his speed boost). Mordekaiser should be in your face, crushing it with his mace and ripping your soul to pieces. Mordekaiser should be a walking death zone that is difficult to destroy as it bears down on your team, annihilating all who try to intercept its path.

I agree with your sentiments. There are some aggravating differences (W) and how he has been shoehorned into botlane, but overall design is mostly the same in execution. Personally I wish they left Mordekaiser alone, but since Riot feels like messing with his kit, I can only make suggestions about the design direction and thematic identity. My design suggestions are simply suggestions, to be mixed and matched, used or discarded, some, all or none of them. I don't propose to have all the solutions or even any, just my 2 cents. No CC is not an identity imo.

I strongly agree that Mordekaiser should be Destruction Incarnate whose theme music is played by the Angels of Hell as he smashes your face into a pulp with his Heavy Metal Mace and then rips out your soul to serve his dark deeds. Hue Hue Hue

Baron of Bread1 votes

No CC is part of his identity, it went hand in hand with his no (now low) mobility. CC is one of the fundamental parts of a champion's identity along with mobility, utility, defense and damage. Mordekaiser has had the identity of completely dropping mobility, CC and utility in exchange for a ridiculous amount of damage and durability. If you give him CC or mobility then you have to take away some of his damage or durability, and those are extremely important to his identity.

BerserkInferno3 votes

I'm sorry bro, I know how that feels being a Karma, ex-Morde, and Quinn player

Photos of Ghosts1 votes

I have no idea why they'd downvote you.

BerserkInferno1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Photos of Ghosts,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=rjux4f4y,comment-id=00100000,timestamp=2015-11-06T12:49:34.328+0000)

I have no idea why they'd downvote you.

maybe they read sarcasm in my post

or maybe they think I'm band waggoning

Whatever the case I was being honest

Mordepool2 votes

Holy shit. I didn't know about that post Wtf happened Riot.

Shosuko2 votes

I think Morde is a re-work that needs a re-work badly.

He didn't gain interesting gameplay options, he got yet another kit where it's all about numbers.

Are you fed? Yes you win.

Are you starved? You are worthless.

His kit is the definition of binary play, and entirely a numbers game.

He even lost his title for no reason. "We're changing away from Master of Metal because metal doesn't fit his theme since we changed it all to ghosts."

  • community outburst "We're still changing it but to Iron instead of Metal because there is no logic behind our actions at this point."

Morde needs a complete rework to be the Metal Mage of League.

WhiskerWow1 votes

He tried his changes on the PBE but they weren't successful at all so he reverted them. There was also a big cry against the changes because some of the previous Morde mains felt that their champion was being changed too much, that big burst was one of Mordekaiser's things.

ModKnightsKemplar3 votes

I hear this complaint, but they can't always cater to mains. One of the worst things they can do with a rework is cater to the mains who love the current design. If the current design was good, he wouldn't need a rework.

Don't be afraid to piss off champ mains to improve the game. Now, EVERYONE is pissed off, including the mains, because Morde is a perma-banned barrel of toxic. It's isn't better than doing ambitious tank reworking on him. It's far worse.

Goodnight Nunu5 votes

You're implying Morde mains like the current morde xD

ModKnightsKemplar2 votes

Not at all. As I said, even morde mains are not happy with this "solution." I saw 0 morde mains who were excited about the rework. Some were cautiously optimistic, but none were excited.

All I mean to say here is sometimes mains are too in love with aspects of the champion that NEED to change. Sometimes trying to please the mains is not possible while still making an interesting, balanced champ.

Specifically, referring to WhiskerWow's statement, Morde shouldn't retain his burst, imo. He should be a juggernaut. And keeping that super high damage is what turned him into the current Frakenstein. He's an abomination, because the morde mains were scared to lose their precious burst. Just like Garen and Darius, it's okay for there to be cases where he can do high damage, but it shouldn't be so easily accessible. That's how we got to bot lane Morde, and look how that turned out. Not well.

Adrian Umbra3 votes

As a former Morde main, I would have loved a more durable, less bursty champion, one who just ground through opponents with metal and pain and the stealing of souls. New Morde... fits pretty much none of this.

I would have been fine with his burst being reduced, I would have been fine with some of the changes to his passive, would have been okay with the changes to his Q, but the Q damage was pushed stupidly high, his base stats were nuked to compensate, his shield generation was taken quite a ways down, his ult range was reduced, and his W was trashed so that he could have some form of sustain. None of that was what I wanted as a Morde main, none of that (IMO) FIT the champion, none of it was necessary. I didn't want a janky ADC replacement or Dragon ghost for EXACTLY this reason. A squishier, burstier, more gimmicky champion is not what this game needs and not what Morde deserves to become.

ModKnightsKemplar2 votes

Agreed. If I were in charge, I would accentuate the most unique thing about Morde (imo): that kick-ass shield mechanic. You reduce his damage, maybe give him a little cc (though I know you hate that), and make that shield actually useful. Make it scale well. Then, he can be a durable, lower damage sustain champ. It's kind of a unique spin on a drain tank, where his weakness is bursting through that shield.

Would have fit his theme, fit the Juggernaut rework, and avoided a 100% pick/ban champ. Win win win.

Adrian Umbra2 votes

I'd personally have made his shield scale better with any Armor/MR (armor/MR reduces damage by more as long as his shield is up), reduce his damage overall (base damages and scaling down across the board, possibly decrease cooldowns a little as well), keep the shield production scaling as is or reduce it a little bit depending, give him that bit of "sticky" shield that he currently gets.

Other changes could be implemented as Riot liked, but the basic idea that you're rewarded for breaking through his shield would be awesome. Gives him this armor play vibe that actually makes it feel like a resource instead of a generic extra health bar.

Stars Shaper2 votes

Because what they did at the time was a mere reduction of his stats and base/AP scaling damage with the introduction of the new shield mechanic (max shield based on max HP, refills less for damage done) without the boost his current E gives against champions.

They realized that in that way Mordekaiser would be unable to fill his shield if not hitting 4+ champions with his Q-E-W combo.

Zair Umbras1 votes

Honestly? All they had to do before was give him the old W with the new explosion, the 15% per champ hit on E, make his Q do an AoE around the target hit rather than have two shards bounce off randomly, shorten the Q CD, and voila, he'd have actually been fine, especially if his Q was granted a slow.

Morde always had good DPS and he was sort of a melee Vlad. Now he's just AP Yi without a movement speed buff. They could even make the R scale with his OWN max health rather than his targets or give his W a size scaling based on his MR and Armor to make him want to go tankier or even add a % Bonus health to his E.

The only things in his new kit that make him tanky is they finally made his passive scale with his HP and his E gives him 15% per champ hit. Add that to his old kit and he'd have been doing pretty damn well. Morde has made a killing off of being a tanky bastard who does tons of damage, but now he's got ten times the burst he used to just because he has no CC and no speed. I'd rather him keep his old speed and he'd make up for his lack of CC with the new Rylai's since that with his E+W+R, he can stick to targets very easily.

JedenVojak1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Zair Umbras,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=rjux4f4y,comment-id=0012,timestamp=2015-11-06T05:45:44.048+0000)

The only things in his new kit that make him tanky is they finally made his passive scale with his HP and his E gives him 15% per champ hit. Add that to his old kit and he'd have been doing pretty damn well. Morde has made a killing off of being a tanky bastard who does tons of damage, but now he's got ten times the burst he used to just because he has no CC and no speed. I'd rather him keep his old speed and he'd make up for his lack of CC with the new Rylai's since that with his E+W+R, he can stick to targets very easily.

I would say his passive scaling with his HP is quite possible the worst change they made to Mordekaiser. In order to compensate its scalability, its base value is considerably lower than it was pre-rework and build HP defeats the entire point of his shield - his shield IS his health.

Zair Umbras1 votes

{quoted}

I would say his passive scaling with his HP is quite possible the worst change they made to Mordekaiser. In order to compensate its scalability, its base value is considerably lower than it was pre-rework and build HP defeats the entire point of his shield - his shield IS his health.

His passive scaling with HP is what gives him an aim at building tanky. Before, you got an MR(Abyssal works well) and Armor(Zhonya's, typically) item and then you built PURE damage so that you can use the shield and a WotA or Gunblade to keep yourself up. With his passive giving him a reason to get health, he can pick up a couple of health items.

Between the E giving him 15% and his passive letting him have a minimum shielding so it all doesn't decay, the new passive is far superior to the old one. Faaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaar superior, plus he didn't give up his base value for his shield as you'll see in the numbers provided below.

Before, it was 90 base plus 30x Morde's level. That's 120 at level 1 and 540 at max level. Now it's 25% of his max health, 1/4th of his health. That means for it to equal 120 at level 1, he'd need 480 health, which he most certainly has with his base being 525. At max level to get 540, he'd need 2160 health and with him being at 1760 at max level, he'd need about 400 health to equal the same, which isn't hard given Rylai's is a good go-to item and this thread is about making him go tankier, so more of a 3kish health Morde with sustained DPS, which is about 750 shielding max.

So, his update actually increased his shield and increased its scaling while making it to where he needed health late game to keep up properly! Which is perfectly fine with me to be honest, we want a tanky Morde with sustained DPS anyways, not this gigantic bursting destroyer that fills his 700 shield with a single E+3rd Q.

JedenVojak2 votes

[{quoted}](name=Zair Umbras,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=rjux4f4y,comment-id=001200000000,timestamp=2015-11-06T13:49:29.689+0000)

His passive scaling with HP is what gives him an aim at building tanky. Before, you got an MR(Abyssal works well) and Armor(Zhonya's, typically) item and then you built PURE damage so that you can use the shield and a WotA or Gunblade to keep yourself up. With his passive giving him a reason to get health, he can pick up a couple of health items.

Having to "build tanky" means you're not tanky at all. Tanks have strong innate defenses which they build upon with tank items - I can play Ashe and build tank items, but that doesn't make her a tank.

Between the E giving him 15% and his passive letting him have a minimum shielding so it all doesn't decay, the new passive is far superior to the old one. Faaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaar superior, plus he didn't give up his base value for his shield as you'll see in the numbers provided below.

Ha. Not even remotely close.

First, his shield drains at a significantly higher rate than pre rework. Secondly, it benefits from a smaller percentage of damage, before it was 35%, now it's 25%, again strictly worse. Third, he has overall less ranged damage and AOE in his kit - his Q has no AOE, his W is unusable, and his E had it damage dropped heavily. Finally his build path is screwed up because he's forced to build both move speed and health now, meaning he has overall less AP meaning he does less damage and generates less shield.

Mordekaiser's shield is drastically weaker than it was pre-rework, and I'm surprised that anyone could possibly think otherwise as one of the goals of the rework was to nerf his shield. Let us not forget what CertainlyT said about him before:

"That being said, Morde is not likely to return to the "immovable object" capable of permanently keeping a shield large enough to slough off entire trades. To the extent that is what you enjoyed about Morde solo lane, you're out of luck."

Before, it was 90 base plus 30x Morde's level. That's 120 at level 1 and 540 at max level. Now it's 25% of his max health, 1/4th of his health. That means for it to equal 120 at level 1, he'd need 480 health, which he most certainly has with his base being 525. At max level to get 540, he'd need 2160 health and with him being at 1760 at max level, he'd need about 400 health to equal the same, which isn't hard given Rylai's is a good go-to item and this thread is about making him go tankier, so more of a 3kish health Morde with sustained DPS, which is about 750 shielding max.

630 at max lv, not 540. This means he needs 2520 max health at lv 18, or +750ish health.

Also, the rate of drain has increased: before it was 3% of his maximum shield per second (after being out of combat, mind, so it did not immediately start draining), now it's 1.5% of base health which if we compare it to his shield at 25% base health drains at a rate of 16.67% per second which is insane. In order to equal his old rate of drain at 3% of maximum shield at lv 18 he would need a shield size of 883 or 3532 maximum health which is around the level of a full tank build.

Morde's shield is much smaller, and nigh impossible to maintain.

So, his update actually increased his shield and increased its scaling while making it to where he needed health late game to keep up properly! Which is perfectly fine with me to be honest, we want a tanky Morde with sustained DPS anyways, not this gigantic bursting destroyer that fills his 700 shield with a single E+3rd Q.

Speak for yourself. I liked his actual functional shield which served as his primary defense, rather than this supplementary non-shield which is impossible to sustain. Mordekaiser is considerably less tanky now than he was before the rework - even with tank items. Also Mordekaiser as he is, can only function as a gigantic bursting destroyer; for him to be anything else, they would need to give him CC and possibly mobility.

The only think that changed post rework is that he can no longer destroy by himself, and constantly needs someone around to hold his hand the entire game or he fails.

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