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Looking for intelligent discussion on the state of Evelynn.

it be lìke that··1 votes·589 views

I love Evelynn, she isn't in a good place imo, people like to argue and thumbs down simply because they hate her kit.

That's completely fair, you are a big lady and allowed to make your own decisions, some stats for you though however.

, 3.7% popularity, 8/6.3/9 average kda.

48% winrate 3.7% popularity ffs.

at 3.7% popularity, she is picked 37 times per 1000 GAMES and she only wins 48% of them.

so she averages 17 wins per 37 games.

Her base stats are poop and she struggles to clear early, which is so vital to her because she cannot play from behind. (giggity?)

I love Everything about her design, you shouldn't make her permanently weak because people dont know how to hold a pink ward.

Give her even more counterplay if thats what it takes, but the constant nerfing of her items without compensating, is killing her.

If they nerf rylai's like people are demanding, bye bye Evelynn Mordekaiser You will be missed.

8 Comments

ThugWalrus2 votes

I think Eve is allowed to have such a wonky and underwhelming kit because of the power of perma-stealth. All her "power-budget" is allocated ther making the rest of the champ bland (in my opinion). Buffing a champion with as frustrating a mechanic as perma-stealth is problematic as people really don't like playing against it, with good reason.

There are a couple thing wrong with Eve. Firstly she is the definition of a feast or famine champion. Either she is terrorizing the entire map and facerolling people left and right or she is behind and more or less entirely useless. When a champ like eve gets super far ahead she is very frustrating to play against as you can not see her coming and get 1-shot legit .5 seconds after seeing her. When she is behind she doesn't feel very satisfying and you don't feel you are contributing much. A lot of champs suffer from this feast-famine dichotomy and it can be problematic on all of them, but Eve is an especially noticeable example of this.

Another problem is that Eve is one of a few junglers that entirely changes how you as an opponent have to play the game. This can sometime be good, but I don't think it is in Eve's case. This mostly stems from her stealth. the only effective way to ward against her is to ward her camps. This is frustrating and high-risk as an opponent as it is so easy to get caught out. Of course you can get pinks, but even with 2 pinks bot lane you cannot ensure your own safety. For one it's almost impossible to ward both tri and the river (and keep it there) unless you have complete lane control. Even if you do have those controlled, that leaves you exposed to a lane gank with no indication of it coming. So not only do you have to change how you ward, but you cannot really push up your lane at all without knowledge of where she is, which can be a long time coming. So Eve essentially gets free map pressure just by existing, which is not a healthy mechanic without limitations.

One last problem I will bring up with Eve is completely subjective. But I really find all her abilities really boring and they make no thematic sense. A bunch of spike that she spams, a double-auto, a speed-up with tenacity and a bunch more spikes that give her a shield. The abilities are all very linear and lock eve into one style of gameplay (imo) which is going ham and just spamming someone to death. Also her abilities are very visually unappealing as well.

So in summary I think they do have to keep Eve in a weak state because she is snowbally and has a frustrating champ identity which cannot be allowed to be popular. As harsh as it is to say, it is better to piss off the small Eve player base than to allow her to be powerful and have her perma-banned and everyone be pissed. Same thing goes for Yorick (who is a insufferable lane bully with little counterplay) and Urgot (who's e-auto-lock mechanic is toxic to play against as well). They keep these champs down so people don't have to deal with the frustration of playing against them often.

it be lìke that1 votes

so many things can be done, look at shaco, he can stealth to you, you get no indication and his stealth is even a flash as wel.

Then just increase the "?" disance of her then, if you know she is around and you dont play around that, your fault. Everyone has a perma stealth its called the fog of war, Evelynn gets an extra 5 steps before you know she is there. (refering to laning phase ganking where its obvious the wards are) It really makes no sense to release a character just for it to sit at the bottom of the totem pole forever.

Hell can we at least get a skin that isn't complete trash!? she has never had even a moderately expensive skin.

the only thing i cant argue with is the warding. i think she would be useless of she can be taken out of stealth by regular wards, so im not sure how that could work.

ThugWalrus1 votes

I mean I would not call Shaco a healthy design, his kit is also considered quite toxic even by riot. Shaco also does have a bit more counterplay anyway.

  1. you can see his poof when he enters stealth, even if he poofs in the Fog of War
  2. Shaco has a timer on his stealth, this mean he must time it properly in order to get an advantageous position. Eve does not have to do this. I have seen countless Eve's sit just on the outskirts of their stealth range for 15-20 seconds just waiting for a misplay to jump in. Essentially she gets a positioning advantage Shaco does not, even though he has a blink. I don't think either of these stealth abilities are healthy, but there are differences between Shaco and Eve's stealth.
  3. "Everyone has a perma stealth and it's called fog of war." This is a really strange point, but I guess it's true, except that Eve does not abide by the rules of fog of war because every other champs "perma-stealth" can be countered by vision wards, whereas Eve's cannot so that comparison is a little wonky I think.

You can't look at these things in a vacuum, for example you say "she gets an extra 5 steps before you know she is there." This is dismissive of the power of that advantage relative to her play style.

  1. she is an assassin, 5 extra steps is a lot. The difference between Soraka having five extra steps of fog of war and Leblanc having 5 extra steps of fog of war is HUGE, so it isn't as simple as that.
  2. Her kit has a speed boost and an AOE slow, meaning those extra five steps basically mean you are not getting away. It's not like "oh you'll still have plenty of time to react..." With Eve's kit that's not really true, making the stealth that much more frustrating. Champs are supposed to have kits with synergy, but when the bases of that synergy is a frustrating mechanic like stealth it makes for an unhealthy kit design

I agree with you that it sucks that Eve is in a constantly underpowered state, but unfortunately she is hard to balance, and so it is safer to keep her on the low side of strong. IF they could magically balance her they would, but by the nature of her kit, she is more apt to swing to the "op" side of the spectrum than stay balanced. She won't sit at the bottom forever, Riot has already said they plan to make some changes to her (I believe in the assassin update? But she might get her own thing with a full Visual Update). That's the problem with maining these niche champs. I would also say to a Yorick main "yeah bro it sucks that your champion has been trash tier for like 3 seasons," but I couldn't say he should get buffs to his existing kit because that kit is oppressive and anti-fun. Eve is also like this, nobody wants Eve dominating the rift because her kit is anti-fun.

Mafia LeBlanc1 votes

{quoted}

I think Eve is allowed to have such a wonky and underwhelming kit because of the power of perma-stealth. All her "power-budget" is allocated ther making the rest of the champ bland (in my opinion). Buffing a champion with as frustrating a mechanic as perma-stealth is problematic as people really don't like playing against it, with good reason.

There are a couple thing wrong with Eve. Firstly she is the definition of a feast or famine champion. Either she is terrorizing the entire map and facerolling people left and right or she is behind and more or less entirely useless. When a champ like eve gets super far ahead she is very frustrating to play against as you can not see her coming and get 1-shot legit .5 seconds after seeing her. When she is behind she doesn't feel very satisfying and you don't feel you are contributing much. A lot of champs suffer from this feast-famine dichotomy and it can be problematic on all of them, but Eve is an especially noticeable example of this.

Another problem is that Eve is one of a few junglers that entirely changes how you as an opponent have to play the game. This can sometime be good, but I don't think it is in Eve's case. This mostly stems from her stealth. the only effective way to ward against her is to ward her camps. This is frustrating and high-risk as an opponent as it is so easy to get caught out. Of course you can get pinks, but even with 2 pinks bot lane you cannot ensure your own safety. For one it's almost impossible to ward both tri and the river (and keep it there) unless you have complete lane control. Even if you do have those controlled, that leaves you exposed to a lane gank with no indication of it coming. So not only do you have to change how you ward, but you cannot really push up your lane at all without knowledge of where she is, which can be a long time coming. So Eve essentially gets free map pressure just by existing, which is not a healthy mechanic without limitations.

One last problem I will bring up with Eve is completely subjective. But I really find all her abilities really boring and they make no thematic sense. A bunch of spike that she spams, a double-auto, a speed-up with tenacity and a bunch more spikes that give her a shield. The abilities are all very linear and lock eve into one style of gameplay (imo) which is going ham and just spamming someone to death. Also her abilities are very visually unappealing as well.

So in summary I think they do have to keep Eve in a weak state because she is snowbally and has a frustrating champ identity which cannot be allowed to be popular. As harsh as it is to say, it is better to piss off the small Eve player base than to allow her to be powerful and have her perma-banned and everyone be pissed. Same thing goes for Yorick (who is a insufferable lane bully with little counterplay) and Urgot (who's e-auto-lock mechanic is toxic to play against as well). They keep these champs down so people don't have to deal with the frustration of playing against them often.

This is quite literally almost word for word of what people said about eve in Beta. When she had a stun on her stun, and 600+ passive healing from assists and kills.

But it's funny how even though her kit is completely different the problems are still exactly the same.

Maximum Morde2 votes

She is relatively underwhelming because Riot sees her as an Assassin, but she lacks the reliable closing ability of other Assassins. She has a ranged slow on her ult, and that's about it. If they made her W not break stealth or increased her Q range by about 50, I wonder how much that would change her.

it be lìke that1 votes

I think both of those effectively "break" her in the communities eyes, it's much easier to blame her sub par stealth when she is near you, but i get it, evelynn would roflstomp new players and low elos.

Personally, I think they just need to up her clear, so you can at least try to get ahead.

They nerfed runic echoes a few patches ago, she got nothing to compensate, they just increased all the hp pools of the camps, nothing to compensate her (her clear was soooooooooooo sketchy before this update too)

Basically after the leash your clear becomes run in a circle spamming q trying not to be hit and going for youe e whenever its off cd, it wrecks your mana and you gotta sit in stealth to get it back or kill crab and then smite blue once your smite is back from raptors.

and if you dont know how risky it is going for a crab early as Evelynn at level 3, it's basically like you jumping into the Grizzly bear exhibit.

Calabok1 votes

she's in a fine state. New Mexico.

Goosetard1 votes

Invisibility mechanics for champions need to be separated from invisibility mechanics for wards. The absurd swings in power as Rito decides what to do with the vision system are terrible for long-term health of champions like Evelynn (and also Shaco Talon Twitch Akali Rengar )

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