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"Doing crazy stuff and challenging the meta is something we want to enshrine in League of Legends"

JarodDempsey··1 votes·807 views

Dear riot, explain to me again how your years of constant willful negligence which resulted in serious detriment to secondary roles and offmeta picks is suddenly changed into "Doing crazy stuff and challenging the meta is something we want to enshrine in League of Legends" because as someone who has mained off meta supports for many years now can plainly see, you actually dont give two poots about challenging the meta.

The only reason riot is even taking this position now is to spin the shut show that is botlane into something that isnt a negative. They let damage creep run wild until they finally nerf adc's to reasonability but then then high damage champs with less range who couldnt compete with pre-nerf adcs simply take their spot, all the while riot is slowly nerfing the hail out of enchanters since runes reforged which finally tipped botlane into its current cluster crap and suddenly theyre all for "challenging the meta" like yeah ok riot nice try but that sentiment is more flimsy than your towers are.

8 Comments

ChargeItDownMid2 votes

[deleted]

ToxicFatPleb1 votes

so killing a whole class of champs is fine with you? please riot dont listen to this person.

Critmaster Garen1 votes

{quoted}

so killing a whole class of champs is fine with you? please riot dont listen to this person.

they did not kill a whole class of champions. just because you lost a couple matchups that you werent familiar with doesnt mean your champins arent viable.

MalrothDragonia1 votes

I mean, I've played so much weird support shit as as result of runes and the support item changes and such. Illaoi support? Fun as hell in the right matchup. Because of those changes I was able to get Mastery 7 on Teemo in Support EXCLUSIVELY.

If you really are an 'off-meta' support player, this is the BEST TIME FOR US. I just fought a Panth/Voli bot-lane, and while we won, they did some cool shit. I think enchanters nullifying assassins so well was bad, but even after the changes I faced a great Janna who was able to just SHUT DOWN my Pyke, it just required some better timing, which I think is a healthier change overall.

Name a support you think is 'off-meta' that you liked and think you can't play, I can find a build/comp for it. You may still disagree, but let's have this discussion.

Love, also an off-meta support player

JarodDempsey1 votes

{quoted}

I mean, I've played so much weird support shit as as result of runes and the support item changes and such. Illaoi support? Fun as hell in the right matchup. Because of those changes I was able to get Mastery 7 on Teemo in Support EXCLUSIVELY.

If you really are an 'off-meta' support player, this is the BEST TIME FOR US. I just fought a Panth/Voli bot-lane, and while we won, they did some cool shit. I think enchanters nullifying assassins so well was bad, but even after the changes I faced a great Janna who was able to just SHUT DOWN my Pyke, it just required some better timing, which I think is a healthier change overall.

Name a support you think is 'off-meta' that you liked and think you can't play, I can find a build/comp for it. You may still disagree, but let's have this discussion.

Love, also an off-meta support player

😒 f janna. she was the largest reason for the enchanter nerf and she still like the strongest enchanter.

These are the champs ive mained support:

Nunu Viktor Orianna Kayle Kennen Velkoz Lissandra

kennen is probably the strongest out of them right now followed by vel simply because of this high damage meta but vel was extremely nerfed a while back which comparably gutted him as a supp.

I mained liss support for like 2 seasons before she really just fell off and riot hasnt touched her since like 2015 when they buffed her ult a bit and since runes reforged shes got even worse. Viktor supp was ruined in his rework (as was soraka who i also played at the time but she wasnt off meta so i didnt list her).

Nunu was secondary roled as a support and filled the role well for many seasons but they nerfed his early e damage and that combined with not having a q and his low range+0 hard mobility/cc left him devoid of use compared to modern high damage supports such as brand and now pyke.

Ori and kayle are my two most recently mained champs. Supp ori was gutted in 7.16 when they nerfed her early shield by 25%. Then early cooldown reduction was nerfed by 50% along with significant mana regen nerfs during runes reforged. That was followed by mfb being ruined in a rework and now they nerfed the cooldown reduction on shield/heal power items along with the shield/heal power bonuses as well. That in conjunction with the egregious nerf to her shield duration was more than enough nails in her coffin as a viable support. Kayle, while not as directly ruined has suffered greatly in the current meta since it's so easy for enemies to do tons of damage in a short window, her single heal and no hard cc simply cant keep up. And sure her ult works well against 1 assasin but most games have 2-3 champions with assasin level damage which pretty much defeats the purpose of her single use ult.

MalrothDragonia1 votes

those are a lot, and to be fair, I'm not talking ranked, because off-meta in ranked is only ok in the matchups that you're specifically good for, so take my responses with that in mind. Also I don't think it's necessary that off-meta stuff should be viable in all situations, I'm just gonna focus on abuseable stuff.

Nunu support is so fun! I would definitely take him with Ziggs botlane now, because you get waveclear value with blood boil even if you can't get trades in, whereas the problem with doing it with an adc is was only combat useful really (max value anyways). In a double-melee or melee-support matchup max that snowball and poke the shit out of them, and sustain off of nomming minions, also nunu support is one of the best for stealing scuttle, which is means you can pump your jg super hard if you can deny it from the opponent. Also, vision on him is paramount so they are terrified of their own bush post-6 bc you could just blow em up. Runes would be Guardian against ranged supp, Comet/aery if you're able to poke em out.

VK is still super viable, just bc he outranges most other ranged supports and so if you're good at hitting his shots you just double kill post-6. His playstyle bot vs mid doesn't change all that much, which you kind of already said.

Liss support I'd probably shift to be a tank supp now, since her ratios and damage are not great. Sunfire has some synergy with that playstyle, though I'd probably still do like, sorc/resolve, for early game. Also people will keep trying to focus you and probably won't realize you're going tank until wayyyy too late, allowing you to get some good kills. Also your peel is godly.

I'm at work and can't finish right now, but think on those for a bit. I'll come back at you with the rest. Kayle is an interesting one, bc she doesn't have a lot of good tools besides her ult really. Might have to build her to just survive to late game to become a carry, which only really works if your opponent is doing the same, or can't hard-engage you.

Critmaster Garen1 votes

{quoted}

Dear riot, explain to me again how your years of constant willful negligence which resulted in serious detriment to secondary roles and offmeta picks is suddenly changed into "Doing crazy stuff and challenging the meta is something we want to enshrine in League of Legends" because as someone who has mained off meta supports for many years now can plainly see, you actually dont give two poots about challenging the meta.

The only reason riot is even taking this position now is to spin the shut show that is botlane into something that isnt a negative. They let damage creep run wild until they finally nerf adc's to reasonability but then then high damage champs with less range who couldnt compete with pre-nerf adcs simply take their spot, all the while riot is slowly nerfing the hail out of enchanters since runes reforged which finally tipped botlane into its current cluster crap and suddenly theyre all for "challenging the meta" like yeah ok riot nice try but that sentiment is more flimsy than your towers are.

except meddler really said month in advance, that theyre planning whats happening right now.

if i remember correctly, he already promised this around season 6, but also made a couple posts about bot lane diversity as a goal for midseason changes 3 to 4 month ago. mordes rework was the first attempt at a non marksman who can go into the duo lane with a support.

the sudden burst of champion diversity and meta breaking teamcomps isnt happening by random chance. they specifically made changes to the game, and marksmen base stats and their power curves to make this possible.

the only changes i dont agree with were some of the global changes like gutting of turret health, buffing the shit out of baron empowered minions, and gutting barons damage.

the route of all evil is of course the esports scene. games drag out much longer when peoples carreers are at stake. pro teams dont want to take risks that could lead them to losing a game, so they play extremely passive and rarely really fight over objectives. riot has been pushing more and more power into everything that can snowball games to make it more "rewarding" for teams to be proactive and contest objectives. theyre literally begging pro teams to stop playing boring games and finally do something. which will never happen, because of mentioned reasons of carreers being at stake.

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