Simple fix to Thornmail

Irelia Bot·Mar 16, 2017·6 votes·1,162 views

Armor reduced to 75

Add Unique passive: Reduces incoming physical damage by 15%

28 Comments

oSEXYPLATYPUSoMar 16, 20172 votes

thormail already reduces physical damage by having armor... 100 armor is the highest armor in one item in game... and its fairly cheap at 2300 gold.

it isnt designed to be a a stand alone armor item vs any champ and in any situation... it is a situational item...

it works best if you stack it with other armor items , typically those with other forms of damage reduction included and having HP actually makes your armor more effective and having armor makes your hp more effective.

the passive of thornmail is stronger with the more armor you stack reflecting more damage back as magic damage to those who do physical damage to you

but you get thornmail is vs a team comp of 2 or more auto attack reliant champs...

and typically you would want a build of something like item 3143 item 3047 item 3075 the damage reduction from randiums -10 % crit strike, and attack speed slowed the hp , and the armor, the armor from the ninja tabs plus the passive of 12% damage reduction from the person who last hit you with physical damage and then thornmail...

another way you could go would be with sunfire and frozeheart, iceborn , deadmans , banner , locket ,etc anything that provides armor and health or both with other forms of damage, damage reduction or whatever

khorneyMar 16, 20171 votes

again thornmail is good agasitn aa champs not so much agaisnt casterish champs or champs that do spells for damage say like j4, for instance. so what he wants is a version of what ninja tabis do but total physical damage

oSEXYPLATYPUSoMar 16, 20171 votes

but you get thornmail is vs a team comp of 2 or more auto attack reliant champs.

i think i covered that

LadyRenlyMar 16, 20172 votes

revert the change requiring you to build more armor to make it effective is a good start.

maybe tacking on GW would help.

Irelia BotMar 16, 20171 votes

It would still maintain the reflect Reflects 15% of the physical damage taken (+ 25% bonus armor) from basic attacks and on-hit effects back to its source as magic damage (Calculated before any resistances or reductions are taken into account).

It would have less armor offered meaning less damage reflected but be gaining a 15% damage reduction against all physical damage sources.

Sett up 4my gankMar 16, 20171 votes

Probably too strong, but a good concept

ChaddyFantomeMar 16, 20171 votes

Give it a condition that dissuades squishies from getting it.

oSEXYPLATYPUSoMar 16, 20171 votes

well it kinda does already

the more armor you have , amplifies the amount of damage reflected as magic damage... therefore it kinda rewards you for having more armor and being tankier .

ChaddyFantomeMar 24, 20171 votes

[{quoted}](name=MrFawknSunshine ,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=raE4nvkw,comment-id=00010000,timestamp=2017-03-16T03:01:50.765+0000)

well it kinda does already

the more armor you have , amplifies the amount of damage reflected as magic damage... therefore it kinda rewards you for having more armor and being tankier .

there is a diffference between dissuading squishies form getting it and incentivising Tanks to get it.

Lethality incentivized Assassins to get the stat over every other class, but that didn't stop ADC's from spamming item 3814 .

oSEXYPLATYPUSoMar 24, 20171 votes

but as i stated thornmail is a situational item... it dont do alot vs burst damage, casters, true damage, etc its only effective vs champs whos damage is applied through auto attacks

and its only effective to get when vs 2 or more of those type of champs in a game... and more effective the more armor you have... hence it passive... its not meant to be a go to item for every game every situation...

there is nothing wrong with the item... now just as a comparison in another thread people are saying black cleaver is too oppressive and generalized for any one who does ad damage... (i argue it isnt / but that is neither here or there ) but the argument against it that is to easy and generalized that all ad champs can use it when ideally its meant for people to shred armor of champs who stack armor... its not near as effective vs those with less armor, and from that the circular argument goes on and on... just as the argument about thornmail ... there is really no benefit for squishy to get it... sona having a thronmail dont help her... her getting a frozen heart/locket does... just as one example...

lux getting it dont help her... there are better items for her and her kit that would be more beneficial...

everything in this game has a pro and con to it... a strength and weakness. and its all situational depending on game, who and what you are facing.

the argument with black cleaver is its ryalis all over again and i dont think it is... and people cry about riot pigeon holding champs into certain roles/ builds / lanes etc and when someone finds something to exploit such as the zyra/brand/malz bot (mage supports ) people who dont know how to adjust to it and play around it (or havent learned how yet ) people complain that things are unbalanced unfair etc

there has been a very few cases of things being completely broken in this game... and riot is typically quick to react ( 2patches normally ) and then they over react see the nerfs to varus ... they completely cripple his Q and then nerf DFT and nerf lethality... did he take advantage of the lethality being strong ? yes... so did alot of adcs... but now they gut his Q which he is an adc caster type of adc who relies on poke from afar and burst with his passive on W ... he has shit for attack speed ( his actual passive is a joke ) he is inmobile , he loses more mobility for casting Q and now its a 20 second cooldown.

the issue wasnt his Q or his kit , the issue was lethality but people ranted and raved .. and now riot cut his balls off and neutered him...

oh but wait... the 7.7 patch that allows kat to have a 15 second cd on her ult at rank 3 ... thats right it still resets and has a 15 second cooldown....

that is just one of the stupid over buffs coming in the new patch , i await the threads of hate for riot

GigglesOMar 16, 20171 votes

Just add this: " Attackers are applied grievous wounds".

Increase price by 400 gold since that is apparently all it costs to add it to an item. item 3123

Linna ExcelMar 16, 20171 votes

Mathematically, what is the difference between this and the live numbers in terms of total damage blocked?

khorneyMar 16, 20171 votes

thornmail is good agasint aa not so much agasint spells...so that is what he wants

Irelia BotMar 16, 20171 votes

A 15% physical damage reduction can not be bypassed by Black Cleaver, Last Whisper or Lethliaty.

Linna ExcelMar 16, 20171 votes

Okay, I'm interested in this suggestion.

SalronMar 16, 20171 votes

Thornmail is supposed to counter auto attackers why do you need to fuck over AD casters too

Also this would not be balanced: item 3047 item 3075 and item 3143

Irelia BotMar 16, 20175 votes

Because the current state of armor pen ignoring 60% or more of armor is balanced?

GigglesOMar 16, 20171 votes

Your point is valid...

GULAG 4 UMar 24, 20171 votes

And how is it invalid?

SalronMar 16, 20172 votes

That doesn't change the fact that this item is meant to counter AAers

Irelia BotMar 16, 20173 votes

And BC was at one time more ideal for the likes of Vayne than tanky fighters.

Items have their usefulness change. Sometimes for the better. Other times for the worst.

Thornmail lacks a reason to be bought currently.

GULAG 4 UMar 24, 20171 votes

Two wrongs don't make one thing right. The ability to ignore 60% of a person's armor isn't fixed by creating bullshit itemization. It is done by nerfing the armor penetration.

Critmaster GarenMar 16, 20171 votes

that wouldnt be thornmail anymore though. thematically at least.

Irelia BotMar 16, 20173 votes

It would still have the damage returned on hit.

Critmaster GarenMar 16, 20172 votes

[{quoted}](name=Irelia Bot,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=raE4nvkw,comment-id=00070000,timestamp=2017-03-16T05:15:21.341+0000)

It would still have the damage returned on hit.

i still see issues of adc picking this up. needs some armor/health scaling attached.

there might actually not be an easy fix to thormail purely because of this guy Malphite

Irelia BotMar 16, 20171 votes

IF the enemy team was all physical damage or their only magic damage dealer was completely worthless then I could see them considering it.

Having an all physical damage team lacks punishment currently and if you enable the enemy team to want this over other options that is yours choice.

Irelia BotMar 16, 20172 votes

Malphite and Rammus are the 2 that might be a problem but even they seem to be dying rather fast in the game currently.

LordGeovanniMar 24, 20171 votes

really we need something to make adcs drop some of their dps . p.s. who picks malphite isnt he in the same place as thorn mail at the moment bad with no reason to be picked. idk why that would be a problem seeeing as it traded some armor on it