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Hey Riot - I think Yi needs a 100% look at with Conqueror

Elohaven··24 votes·12,561 views

1008 true damage with Wuju Style+Ult

Now how exactly am I going to itemize against that?

Edit: Thread is getting some traction so let me make some statements below.

Yi can get BORK+Guinsoos+Bloodrazor and build tank items while dealing this much damage which I believe is ridiculous mid-game. Conqueror as a rune itself is unhealthy for the game because it's true damage. Vayne was already annoying enough.

Conqueror looks like it'll be a monster to balance around. First, it's not 4 seconds in combat WITH an enemy champion. It's 4 seconds in combat in general which is unhealthy. It means I can go in a fight with 20% of my damage being true damage which means I can delete a squishy who built resistances since my kit already bursts them even without conqueror.

I get conqueror is meant to replace fervor but fervor was healthier because it was physical damage and was for the period of autoattacks you trade in combat with an enemy champion. I don't see why not just add this old rune back. You did it with Warlord's to Fleet Footwork.

Anyways, back to Yi:

  • Yi is a champion that's infamous for his burst and simplicity
  • Even if Yi was at a poor winrate, his late-game was still a threat prior to Conqueror

There are several abuse cases of conqueror such as Riven (though mechanically intensive, it's actually really good on her mains), Jax (With or Without Guinsoos), and cases with Yi.

If you don't believe Yi can do 1000 true damage with Wuju Style+Highlander in 2-4 seconds, go into the Practice Tool and try it yourself. It actually is ludicrous.

Winrates don't mean anything if there's an event that's extremely unhealthy.

If you want to change this, which hopefully you do or there'll be a lot more abuse cases, don't nerf Yi but CHANGE CONQUEROR.

With the amount of damage in the game, 20% true damage is ridiculous.

73 Comments

Leché10 votes

Health

Elohaven18 votes

1008 true damage is basically a 30-40% of a tank's normal health mid-game. You would literally need to be Cho'gath in order to absorb all that damage. Typically, a bruiser only has 3-4K health or 2.5K health. 1008 true damage at 20 minutes into the game with Guinsoos+BORK+Conqueror is not a fair option to face against.

Not even Vayne does that much damage.

Automated Riven9 votes

Vayne does do that much damage. And probably half or 3/4 of that damage you would have taken anyway (depending on the two builds) it was simply converted to true damage.

Elohaven2 votes

Vayne does 12% of your max HP as bonus true damage which is only applicable on tanks with 8.4K HP and 3 hits if you ignore guinsoos stacked (then 2 hits). That requires a grand late-game for a tank and Vayne to have hit her full-build. She requires 3-4 high AS items with crit to be as bursty as Yi but crit isn't true damage and is greatly reduced with item 3110 item 3143 item 3075 with the amount of AS reduction.

Yi does this amount of damage without relying on enemy HP, without conditions other than autoattacks, in a smaller timeframe. A squishy actually lasts longer against Vayne than against a Yi.

I haven't seen a Vayne do 1008 true damage with her passive unless it was on Cho'gath.

Automated Riven9 votes

I didn't make myself clear. Depending on builds Yi actually did around 300--500 damage extra to you. The other 500-700 you WERE TAKING ANYWAY it was just converted into true damage. Secondly Vayne does 12%max hp every three attacks. That's 9 attacks against a 3k hp Target (3k ÷12 is 360 per proc. And 1100 at three) so unless your arguing that Vayne Will always kill a tank in less then 9 auto attacks your simply not correct. But the realistic true damage bonus that Yi got from conquerer was probably 300 (after reducing the damage you would have already taken and his wuju style.

Elohaven2 votes

That's not how Vayne works though. You can't say 3000 true damage divided by 12 is 360 a proc because that defeats your argument. (Silver Bolts only procs on every 3 autoattacks)

I'm not completely getting your post since it's structured weirdly for me.

Anyways, my argument is that the point Vayne's W can deal that much damage, the game is late-game and she's farmed enough with the tank having that much HP.

Yi does the same damage, mid-game, without depending on HP, to all targets.

This causes an issue where that true damage causes you to instantly lose the fight since 300 is a great deal for a squishy and the bruiser can barely duel and get off spells due to Yi's AS and Alpha Strike.

Vayne can do that much damage over a very extended period of time to a tank. (10-20 seconds without lethal tempo)

Yi does it in 3-5 seconds.

Automated Riven3 votes

The bonus damage is less if the target has less armor (Squishy targets). Look at it this way Target A has 100 armor, The equates to a 50% damage reduction, so if yi without conqueror does 1000 damage it will then be reduced to 500 damage. Now if yi has conqueror 20% of 1000 is converted to true damage 200 and so the total damage that the target now takes is 1000 (damage total damage dealt - 200 this is converted to true damage so we will use this later - minus 50% = 400 plus the 200 true damage.) that equals 600 damage. which is 200 in true damage but only 100 more then the target would have taken originally.

Now the lower the armor value. the lower the bonus damage is. so if yi is doing 100 bonus damage to a target with 100 armor, to someone with 50 its far closer to maybe 60-70 bonus damage.

The true damage numbers feel really bad but they are very misleading. And vayne outdamage on the bonus damage at all points in time during the game. If vayne is hitting a 2k hp target 3 times its a total of 240 bonus damage in true damage. 6 auto attacks and she is at almost 500 damage. Her percent of bonus true damage is far higher then yi's even with conqueror.

Elohaven2 votes

The true damage numbers feel really bad but they are very misleading. And vayne outdamage on the bonus damage at all points in time during the game. If vayne is hitting a 2k hp target 3 times its a total of 240 bonus damage in true damage. 6 auto attacks and she is at almost 500 damage. Her percent of bonus true damage is far higher then yi's even with conqueror.

No, she doesn't. That's misleading and incorrect. Vayne doesn't deal outdamage Yi at all points in the game. Actually, Yi outdamages Vayne.

Also, this is sidetracked from my argument. I'm saying Yi deals way too much damage and this is due to Conqueror. There are abuse cases and conqueror needs a look at. Yi is in need in a buff for consistency but with conqueror, any buff would put him out of balance in his current state.

Automated Riven3 votes

Your not reading what I wrote. Vayne does more BONUS true damage from her passive then yis BONUS damage from conqueror.

Now your refusing to read what I've posted and are just arguing for God knows why so I won't be replying anymore.

flibitydoo2 votes

Vayne does that much damage over the course of 15-20 seconds to a tank. If I die to that and check my death recap and see that much damage, usually it's not my fault, nor is it vaynes, it's my own team for being potatoes and not killing the enemy team in 15-20 seconds which is an insanely generous amount of time I bought for them while the enemy wasted their cooldowns and junk on me.

Yi is doing this in like 5 seconds.

Automated Riven2 votes

You need to math better bro. 9 attacks without guinsoos against a 3k hp tank, 6 with it. And it's like 900 true damage in 4-6 attacks (guinsoos and without) if they have 4k that takes like between like 2 and 5 seconds.

Purgë6 votes

{quoted}

Health

it's not like he builds bloodrazor and bork so he get 4% max hp damage and 8% current hp as magic damage per single auto

321505 votes

except they both deal physical damage

Automated Riven3 votes

Except 20% is converted to true damage. And if you only build health it doesn't matter what kind of damage it is. It's still gonna shred it.

RainXBlade7 votes

lol just CC Yi.

Elohaven16 votes

CC counters everything. That's not a valid argument when talking about the absurdity of damage.

"Is Xayah at a 60% WR? Oh, just CC Xayah" "Is Vayne always winning lane? Oh, just CC Vayne" "Is Yasuo dealing 2000 damage an attack? Oh, just CC Yasuo hehe xd"

That's not how the game works. Just because CC exists doesn't mean a gameplay event is balanced.

What if Vayne was doing 1000 true damage every 2-seconds to you? 1000 true damage is literally over 80% of a squishy's health.

With his alpha, he can dodge CC. With his ultimate, he can also dodge CC due to MS and many CC abilities being skillshots. Flash, QSS, Mikael's, tenacity.

You know what? If a champion gains a 60% winrate and a 40% pickrate in ranked, why don't we just say "just CC"?

It's fine right. Because that's obviously means there aren't any issues with the said champion.

RainXBlade2 votes

But, isn't CC and focusing him the counterplay to him? You can just play people like Naut or Malz and his day is guaranteed to be ruined.

Besides, most Yi players are usually idiots that waste their Q to go in anyway. Take advantage of that.

Mogarl3 votes

{quoted}

Besides, most Yi players are usually idiots that waste their Q to go in anyway. Take advantage of that.

Stereotypes aren't counterplay, and if you need to pick from a very limited pool of champs just to counter one into being non-existent there is a problem.

Since League of Legends is a game first and foremost there shouldn't be situations where because someone chose the "wrong" champ in selection they don't get to play the game. There may be exceptions to this (though it would be nice if there weren't) at the highest levels of play, but that's their own fault for getting good.

This should be true for the people not picking Malz and Naut, but it should also be true for the Yi that ends up playing against Malz and Naut.

haaaaaaalp3 votes

Just burst him down. True damage doesn't make him any tankier and conqueror eats through the bonus resistance he gets if he tries to meditate. Or if you are feeling lazy, tiger stance udyr rips yi a new one.

Ahristocats3 votes

itemization is the only thing that matters in this game indeed

Baron of Bread3 votes

Conqueror is actually not that good on Yi, he already has plenty of true damage and would rather have attack speed or burst from Lethal Tempo or Press the Attack. If he is alive in a fight long enough to proc Conquerors than you were going to lose against him even if he had Aftershock as his keystone.

Beerstein4 votes

[{quoted}](name=Baron of Bread,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=ra1sjJVz,comment-id=0004,timestamp=2018-04-14T18:21:02.833+0000)

Conqueror is actually not that good on Yi, he already has plenty of true damage and would rather have attack speed or burst from Lethal Tempo or Press the Attack. If he is alive in a fight long enough to proc Conquerors than you were going to lose against him even if he had Aftershock as his keystone.

Its after 4 seconds in combat next hit on a CHAMPION, not after 4 seconds in combat WITH an enemy champion...So if he goes in and insta procs it...yeah no. I haven't tried it yet but that's how it says it works.

Baron of Bread1 votes

If he does, but you do not always have a way to be in combat for 4 seconds before going in. Don't say it is with any of the enemies because if you had 4 seconds of fighting them without going in you are dead or a tank build which does almost no damage.

Beerstein1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Baron of Bread,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=ra1sjJVz,comment-id=000400000000,timestamp=2018-04-15T06:31:16.367+0000)

If he does, but you do not always have a way to be in combat for 4 seconds before going in. Don't say it is with any of the enemies because if you had 4 seconds of fighting them without going in you are dead or a tank build which does almost no damage.

I've since played quite a bit of Yi like this, even with the temp buff, and I gotta say, finding 4s of combat before an engage is EASY. This thing is crazy OP, and I love it.

Baron of Bread1 votes

Are you split pushing? I find that if I am grouped with the team then I usually can't find something to auto since my ranged allies clear out the minions before I have any chance of touching them.

Beerstein1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Baron of Bread,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=ra1sjJVz,comment-id=00040000000000000000,timestamp=2018-04-21T19:12:15.798+0000)

Are you split pushing? I find that if I am grouped with the team then I usually can't find something to auto since my ranged allies clear out the minions before I have any chance of touching them.

I try to hit stragglers/fringe fight. rift scuttlers, birds etc. Early game though, enemies massively underestimate you so if you can get something going on a rift scuttler poke fight etc. they have no idea why you're getting so aggressive on a little crab with them there, then you jump. So not just late game tank shredding, but early 1on1. Minions also help yes, but it can be harder due to allies as you mention. It's like any yi game really, it's 99% positioning due to his "hard counter" of "just cc him".

Honestly, it's the mobility that allows him to do it so effectively. It completely shuts down the enemies ability to even consider a split push, and generally, it's easier to catch tanks out alone because they're used to playing less safe. They expect team followup, but melt before the team can with Conqueror Yi.

That said, early game skirmishes people try to avoid jg minions or kite them on the other, when they do this with Conq Yi he just charges before stomping them as they sit there confused. It's way, way more powerful early game than you'd expect, especially when you stack his E, that first hit just does so much damage they have very few options which all involve narrow escape or death.

Baron of Bread2 votes

Alright, I see how you use it. I might switch up my style and try it out again, thanks for the explanation and revisiting the comment.

Zed genius3 votes

Yi is a trash champion

FrostQueensPlane3 votes

Yi isn't a well designed champion, there's nothing you can do to mitigate his damage. The only way to deal with him is to be fed enough to one shot him but before he gets fed enough to one shot your team and conqueror hasn't changed that.

53013 votes

To be fair if he is able to even get to that point of the game without being significantly behind, he deserves to have damage, since that's the only thing he has. Keep in mind that the S tier junglers have cheaper builds, faster powerspikes and are as a whole more useful

He still has the same problems. His pre 6 isn't that impressive, therefore he gives up the ability to be proactive to all of the tier 1, 2 and even other 3 junglers. His post 6 is huge, but at the same time it isn't great. Yi's ganks are Shyvana-tier pre 6 and post 6, so trying to gain tempo is pointless since it's so difficult to gain as Yi. He's just so predictable, low ranged and doesn't have any CC, and you don't even need to ward against him if you have a rough idea of where he is. Tracking doesn't have to be exact against Yi like it does someone like Kha'Zix and Shaco since Yi is so useless. The current nerfed iteration of his ult has a short duration and doesn't feel that great at all for the Yi player if him and his team can't kill anything quickly enough for him to get a reset. He has to prep rageblade, conqueror and will usually have to look for a good opening to go in, unless both teams are just running away from their ADs and mages and into the enemy team. Also, if he gets behind he's not really getting back into the game, unless someone else enables him to (which is not uncommon in a solo queue environment, but hey if a team lets that happen with a Yi, they deserved to lose anyways)

I'm not saying that I agree or disagree, I'm just saying that Yi still isn't reliable. There really is no effective way to itemize against on-hit Yi and he shreds everything, from squishy mages and ADs to the most durable bruisers and tanks but he still isn't consistent.

ZerglingOne2 votes

Conqueror analysis.

80% standard damage 20% true damage.

Assuming 1000dps

100 resistance makes 500 DPS normally With conqueror that becomes 600 DPS.

200 resistance makes 333 DPS normally With conqueror that becomes 466 DPS.

300 resistance causes 250 DPS normally With conqueror that becomes 400 DPS

What does that mean? It means you can't stack resistances against a conqueror user. So basically you should stop trying for resistances at around 200 and then go for as much HP as possible.

Beerstein1 votes

{quoted}

Conqueror analysis.

80% standard damage 20% true damage.

Assuming 1000dps

100 resistance makes 500 DPS normally With conqueror that becomes 600 DPS.

200 resistance makes 333 DPS normally With conqueror that becomes 466 DPS.

300 resistance causes 250 DPS normally With conqueror that becomes 400 DPS

What does that mean? It means you can't stack resistances against a conqueror user. So basically you should stop trying for resistances at around 200 and then go for as much HP as possible.

There's no counter to Mr. Yi and I'm quite enjoying it. (besides stun him lol) I'm core BOTRK+Guinsoos with this mastery. The end result is % of max HP damage per hit (bloodrazor JG item), % of current HP damage, 20% true damage, and some crazy attack speed. I must say, the only counter appears to be squishies that hit harder (full crit)

Also, the guinsoos means more procs on bloodrazor/BOTRK for more % hp damage. Legit, this guy melts tanks like squishies. Again, the only weakness is people that are more glass cannony via crit builds unless you can get on top of them With a Q.

As always, Jaximus Gordon hard counters Yi so just ban him.

That said, since they buffed tempo I don't mind if riot justifiably nerfs the **** out of this mastery, it's kinda deserved.

ZerglingOne1 votes

{quoted}

There's no counter to Mr. Yi and I'm quite enjoying it. (besides stun him lol) I'm core BOTRK+Guinsoos with this mastery. The end result is % of max HP damage per hit (bloodrazor JG item), % of current HP damage, 20% true damage, and some crazy attack speed. I must say, the only counter appears to be squishies that hit harder (full crit)

Also, the guinsoos means more procs on bloodrazor/BOTRK for more % hp damage. Legit, this guy melts tanks like squishies. Again, the only weakness is people that are more glass cannony via crit builds unless you can get on top of them With a Q.

As always, Jaximus Gordon hard counters Yi so just ban him.

That said, since they buffed tempo I don't mind if riot justifiably nerfs the **** out of this mastery, it's kinda deserved.

The counter to Yi is initiating on him.

Yi thrives on coming in mid-way to a fight and shoving his giant katana up as many half-health asses as he can.

If you find him and bring the fight to him first, he's pretty worthless.

Big Lincoln2 votes

over how many seconds

Feel Apathy2 votes

It's red smite / Devourer all over again.

Xiniseid2 votes

The point is you aren't supposed to be able to itemize against it, hence why I ban Yi in all of my games.

princeblumpkin2 votes

Building conqueror on a champ that already does lots of true damage is a waste. The whole point is that it's good on champs that want penetration but don't normally build it, and Master Yi kills tanks just fine without it.

MrDrBudd2 votes

I play a lot of Yi so call me biased, but his 3 core items AND tank items isnt mid game by any means. Thats late game af unless hes fed in which case ofc hes doing that much damage to you. Yi is easily countered by most teamcomps in general and squishies have items to counter him that are commonly built most games item 3026 item 3157 Supports and tanks tend to have CC which is definitely how you fuck his day up. He can only dodge 1 time with alpha and if youre missing your SS because of that pitiful movespeed he gets then thats YOUR fault entirely. Melee adcs are countered the same way ranged adcs are. By focusing them. ccing and dishing out all your damage on them before they clean you up. Except they are more vunrable being melee so yeah he does more damage than Vayne.

Elohaven2 votes

Guinsoos+BORK is mid-game and that's enough for 1000 true damage with Highlander. At that point the enemy has their core items, but not GA. You also have to note the high cooldowns the items have and the issue with Yi just diving in to kill your squishy before you can get to him even when grouped. Or the fact that the 1000 true damage disables you from 1v1ing him.

Everybody is weak to CC, but if Yas did 1000 true damage in 3 seconds, would that mean CC is why that's balanced?

No. CC is not the answer to everything. And yes, Yi should do more damage than Vayne when in proximity to attack but when he hits ridiculous DPS by mid-game and Vayne is still on IE+Shiv, does it really make sense to call him a perfectly balanced late-game champion.

AirKingNeo1 votes

3 items isn't mid game for junglers.

Elohaven1 votes

I never said 3 items. I said 2. If you want two then:

  • Guinsoos + Bloodrazor
  • Guinsoos + BORK

Either way, it's the combination of Guinsoos with his kit and Conqueror that is the issue.

3ternalkarma1 votes

{quoted}

I never said 3 items. I said 2. If you want two then:

  • Guinsoos + Bloodrazor
  • Guinsoos + BORK

Either way, it's the combination of Guinsoos with his kit and Conqueror that is the issue.

no its honestly not lol yi's true damage is mostly from his E which at rank 5 is 50+35% bonus AD PER auto if he has 2.0 AS with rageblade he shreds, either way Lethal tempo makes him even more scary than conqueror, 5.0AS Yi is terrifying

iPooUnicorns1 votes

I don't see much of a problem with melee carries that build full damage doing a lot of damage.

Xiniseid7 votes

Except Yi's with conqueror don't build full damage. The build is normally item 1419 item 3124 and then tankish items for the rest.

Hextech OwI1 votes

I guess Tabis still reduce AA damages by 12% so it might reduce some damages even if it's true damages.

Elohaven4 votes

Tabis got nerfed and the damage reduction isn't much. It's true damage.

Battalion1 votes

You don't just itemize against something, you need to pick a team comp that neutralizes it or abuses that weakness. That means you need someone with CC or at least two people on your team to have reliable CC.

Yes, CC solves a lot of issues, that is true, it's a very useful utility. It is, to a large extent, more available to players than ever in the history of the game. It is rare to find a champion that does not have some sort of CC. Beyond this, there is also the use of building HP or items that slow attack speed or block percentages of damage.

item 3143 item 3812 item 3047 item 3046

Annie Ashe Anivia AurelionSol Bard Blitzcrank Chogath Elise Fiddlesticks Galio Janna Malzahar Morgana Nami Pantheon Rammus Ryze Taric TwistedFate Tryndamere Veigar Warwick Xerath Zilean Zoe

I know that all of these champions can, if played with a decent degree of knowledge, can shutdown a Yi before they can even get in range for an Alpha strike. While true damage is a bad mechanic in such large doses and effects the game in a more drastic way than any single mechanic should, it is not unbeatable, and requires just basic knowledge of champion match ups. Anything to deal with suppression, silence, knock-up, stun, taunt, sleep, or fear will cause Yi to be bursted down very quickly. The use of Point and Click stuns are useful as well as the invulnerability of champions such as Tryndamere.

EkyonKun2 votes

You make a few good points, but I do have some problems with your argument.

{quoted}

Beyond this, there is also the use of building HP or items that slow attack speed or block percentages of damage.

In this meta, it's unlikely you'll have the opportunity to build no armor items and still expect to get by just fine as a tank. If you're not a tank, then you'd be blessed to even have the opportunity to build more health items than maybe two.

Furthermore, while he's in Highlander, he's immune to slows and cripples (attack speed slows) and considering no Yi worth his weight in salt is going to be fighting without his ult up (unless massively ahead) that essentially means attack speed slows are absolutely worthless vs. him. This in conjunction with the fact that true damage is, well, true. Meaning that you cannot lower it with things like % damage reduction. Means:

item 3143 Only good vs crit Yi item 3110 (almost) Absolutely worthless vs Yi item 3812 Barely does anything at all besides hopefully delaying your death by a second or so. item 3047 (almost) Absolutely worthless vs Yi. (Neither the armor nor the % reduced auto attack damage lowers the true damage) item 3046 Defensive wise, does absolutely nothing vs Yi.

Again, this is all assuming he's in his ult with a true damage focused build.

As for the list of champions, very few of those are reliable champions in dealing with Yi. Some of them I'd label as free food for him.

Annie AniviaChogathPantheonEliseZoeAurelionSolVeigarTaricXerath AsheTwistedFateZilean all rely on a single hard cc which Yi is easily able to dodge, or at least Alpha away from. (Though, Zilean at least offers a pseudo GA but I'm just mentioning methods of CC)

NamiBardWarwick MorganaJannaBlitzcrank have more options, but aren't exactly reliable for peels either. Especially if he alpha's one of them. And ESPECIALLY if he just straight up dodges one of them with his 500+ move speed.

RammusUdyr RyzeMalzaharLulu Fiddlesticks All have pretty reliable instant point and click hard CC which will do them well until Yi spends 1300 gold on this bad boy item 3140 . Then you'll start needing multiple point and click instantaneous hard CCs on the team. Which is super common to see by the way.

Tryndamere vs MasterYi is just who can right click the hardest.

Battalion1 votes

The items I listed were preemptively assigned to deal with arguments that branch out from the main complaint as it usually does.

"Well that X item may help against Master Yi, but that item doesn't do jack against X ." ^ That kind of 'counter' arguement.

You're right though, item 3143 Randuin's isn't ideal against Yi.

item 3110 is there because it's a 2700g Aura that will affect both Yi (who I assume will be going jungle) and the ADC, so a support or tank top laner can grab that confidently knowing their quick buy isn't a total waste of gold.

item 3812 item 3046 We'll have to agree to disagree on these two. They both offer offensive boosts and defensive boosts instead of just raw offensive or defensive boosts. They're very potent against those that are relying on quick kills, such as Yi, both of these can have a champion live long enough for the Yi to be CC'd and nuked.

item 3047 While it does not block true damage it does affect a good deal of Yi's physical damage, like frozen heart it's gold efficient so there's no reason why someone could complain that "Yeah but you can only get that if you're fed".

That entire first line of champions have enough ranged stuns or impassible terrain to block Yi. Some have damage nukes (like Chogoath, veigar) that are also combined with ample amount of stuns, knock ups, silence, etc. TF has a point and click stun and while I wouldn't knowingly play my TF into even a mediocre Yi, it's not because it's not possible, but rather there's just obviously better options. When I go against a Yi and I mained mid lane I'd just spam Annie and dominate any squishy jungle carries by starting ROA and safe farming until level 6.

I won't address all the 3rd row, but I just want you to know that Fiddle sticks can not only silence him...but if Yi highlanders, gets silenced or stunned by a teammate, fiddle just uses his point and click fear to have Yi sonic-dash into the next lane, it really is funny.

Well anyone who plays tryndamere into a yi should build some sort of grevious wounds and it's GG from there since Yi cannot sustain past that, unless the Yi holds the Heal for the... well even then Yi would likely die just from crit damage. As long as the tyrndamere is patient I think he wins 4/5 times

Edit: Also I don't know who downvoted you so take this upvote

ModJikker1 votes

Please do not necro old threads. Doing so violates the Board Universal Rules. If we want to discuss a topic, especially in Gameplay where balance and kits are changing a lot, make a new thread than resurrect an old on.

Applying padlock....

[poppy-wink]

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