Cause clearly Riot refuses to admit Ekko is horribly designed and already started with some of the highest ratios in the game. So in a few months if their nerfs are successful Ekko will start building tank in the jungle AGAIN and, what, buff his AP ratios some more?
LOL Spammer39 votesThis is literally what the community has been asking for, nerf his base damage and buff his scalings. Now we are complaining about his AP ratios being buffed. Literally guys make up your mind.
SouL1ess13 votes[{quoted}](name=LOL Spammer,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=rYEK8Rih,comment-id=0002,timestamp=2016-04-11T21:47:47.814+0000)
This is literally what the community has been asking for, nerf his base damage and buff his scalings. Now we are complaining about his AP ratios being buffed. Literally guys make up your mind.
Ekko's kit is a problem because a squishy build is not even desirable for him.
He can't be built squishy. He doesn't have the reliability of Talon or Flash Mobility of Zed, nor does he do damage as quickly as those two. Building squishy hurts yourself more than it hurts other assassins.
His current kit demands that he has some form of durability in his item path, because otherwise he isn't a functional champion.
LeeZesuo10 votesyou don't have any idea of what you're talking about. Ekko can give himself a 2000 damage shield late game with his w after building ap, he has a zhonyas and an ult to basically revive, and does amazing damage and provides utility in fights. if you knew how to play him, you could do many nice things.
Echous2 votesLol.
Let's try again.
Your W gives you thT massive sheild IF you can either be in it when it lands, or make it into it after it does. IF you are still alive after the delay. IF you didn't have to ulti out because your burst damage is still stupid Low even with full AP.
Now to the hourglass, fucking really? Not only is it getting nerfed in this update, you have to have it built AND finished for it to be of any use, second EVERY CHAMPION IN THE GAME CAN BUILD IT.
Lastly your ulti, sweet, you go back 6 seconds and gain some health back, IF the enemy didn't chain CC you to death, IF You don't want to use it for the extra damage it gives, IF you use it, but it puts you way too far back to continue fighting with your team and your team goes down because of that, how do you plan on surviving the enemy push as AP Ekko?
paisy1 votesYou make everything sound harder than it is
Bladerunner77778 voteswell then how does Diana work?
Marshbouy2 votes[zombie-brand-clap]
Faceroll Tactics4 votesDiana has zhonyas in her build path most of the time, has a instant cast shield and natural tank stats
Pierce The Veal4 votes[{quoted}](name=Faceroll Tactics,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=rYEK8Rih,comment-id=0002000000010001,timestamp=2016-04-11T23:30:20.694+0000)
Diana has zhonyas in her build path most of the time, has a instant cast shield and natural tank stats
Wait holy crap Zhonya's is gonna get 10% cdr I can finally build her with lich bane and zhonya's and get 40% cdr woooooo boysss.
YOLO420SWAGSCOPE2 votesboards=LoL community
I chuckled.
Only Play Darius14 votesEkko is like 
, overdone and a kit that was just too good for the state of League at that time. Within 2 years all the reworks, buffs, and new champs will make Ekko look modest by comparison just like it did to Yas.
tXQbsPrjN512 votesI mean certainlyT still has a job after Yasuo and Kalista and they still allow gypsylord to design champs when ALL OF THEM end up with overloaded stats ye pretty much.
LiziLOL3 votes[{quoted}](name=Brandon Heat,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=rYEK8Rih,comment-id=00010000,timestamp=2016-04-11T21:40:36.943+0000)
I mean certainlyT still has a job after Yasuo and Kalista and they still allow gypsylord to design champs when ALL OF THEM end up with overloaded stats ye pretty much.
vi gnar ekko and jhin all should be removed from league, all are extremely anti-fun to play against
AnonymousPoro6 votesvi gnar ekko and jhin all should be removed from league, all are extremely anti-fun to play against
They aren't if you know how to outplay them.
Keep an eye on Gnar's rage meter, CC Vi when she's uses Vault Breaker, burst down Jhin while he's reloading, ignite Ekko before he ults(heal'll be reduced), that sort of thing.
They all have counter-play. Except Tank Ekko. Fuck that.
YCitizenSnipsY4 votesThere actually not well designed at all. You can't "outplay" Vi's point and click ult, you have to hope its down or have peel from your team mates. Gnar is absolutely disgusting anytime he is even remotely viable. The only reason he is "balanced" right now is because he gets the old Poppy treatment. Jhin has been outright ridiculous since he got buffed.
They only time nay of those champs are fun to play against is when they are so weak they are considered off meta picks. Anytime anyone of them is strong enough to be a common pick its hell on the game.
charcharmunro4 votesVi's ult is very dumb, yes, it literally does not have counterplay beyond "kill her before she gets to her target". The rest of her kit is pretty easy to play around, though.
Also, fuck Gnar. Infinite poke, inability to ever be engaged on ever, annoying as fuck to itemise against because he does %health magic damage for some reason.
Only Play Darius4 votesI'm fine with Vi, Jhin, and Jinx, but Gnar can burn in hell. Probably the most overdesigned champion to date and has literally everything going for him, nonstop harass from range and impossible to zone but gets to transform into a tank with damage and CC that exceeds most other toplaners.
Dominick Destine3 votes[{quoted}](name=Brandon Heat,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=rYEK8Rih,comment-id=00010000,timestamp=2016-04-11T21:40:36.943+0000)
I mean certainlyT still has a job after Yasuo and Kalista
Lol'd.
Dunkrius2g13 votesNerf Tank Ekko and give no compensation buffs. That is all that is needed.
DeathBurst2 votesThen, AP Ekko still won't be played. Probly not an ideal situation.
Nazzadan8 votesThey just need to gut him. And if any red poster happens to stroll by and read this, GUT. HIM. You had no qualms with gutting Eve, Olaf, Nocturne, etc. Why is Ekko above this? If he is this fucking busted just absolutely neuter him until you can come back later and fix him. Stop with these pussyfooting small nerfs and changes and just annihilate him as a character until you have a real concrete plan to fix him. Fucking tired of either banning him or losing the game.
Shadragon3 votesDon't forget Shaco, who was gutted for being too strong in Bronze, and Taric, who was gutted for being popular. Oh and Urgot who was gutted for threatening to change the botlane meta, and also Skarner who got it for being picked more than Lee Sin in esports. Can't forget Yorick either, though he honestly deserved it. Yorick in his prime was one of the most oppressive lane experiences this game has ever seen. He was almost as bad as Ekko once he finishes his Sunfire+Gauntlet combo.
forresto3 votesI still remember the old joke: "yorick walked into a bar. there was no counter."
Sasogwa6 votesIf he didn't have ridiculous utility and crowd control integrated to his kit, maybe Ekko wouldn't be a pain to balance. But well, with Rito standards nowadays, what is a champion that doesn't have 10 dashes, 3 hit mechanics, invulnerability, tons of CC and also good base damages and scalings, right?
Keevalroy4 votesDon't forget the heal, shield, % execute damage, and speed up.
Krys Star4 votesRiot DID admit Ekko has an overloaded kit, though. Two Rioters, in fact. And they buffed him a month after saying that, on top of thinking Grasp of the Undying + IBG + Sunfire was his problem, when it's so obviously his kit. LCS demonstrated that, so they're giving him actual nerfs now, but they wont be enough. His stun+slow is retarded, especially a 2.25s one point wonder at rank 1. He gets a speed up, a dash, another dash, an ult that reverts whatever mistake he made on top of bursting enemies, a Q that slows on the way out, and slows again on the way back. His kit is disgusting.
Aazzlano4 votesYeah his damage is ridiculous right now.
At level 9 with just his E->Q hitting twice (no ultimate), he does 609 + 180% AP damage, with no additional autoattacks and not counting his E passive and that is his normal trading combo that he does regularly.
At level 9, Annie full combo does 465 + 255% AP damage, without the burn aura from Tibbers
It doesn't even out until 190+ AP, which isn't going to happen that early.
Balanced.
ralsei2 votesWhere are you getting these numbers?
If he were maxing everything out normally his combo would be:
Q1 (Maxed) + Q2 (Maxed) + E (2 points in) + Passive (lvl 9)
120 (+10% AP) + 160 (+60% AP) + 80 (20% AP) + 100 (+80% AP) = 460 base + AP%;
Annie's is:
Ult + W (2 points) + Q (Maxed) (Maybe + another Q if she Q'd at the start)
175 (+80%) + 115 (+85% AP) + 220 (+80% AP) = 510 + AP% (730 + AP% if Q'd at start)
Great Ozymandius2 votesI'm not sure whose math was right, but there is absolutely no reason for ekko to do comparable damage as annie when he has so much cc, mobility, and shields/heals on top.
3TWarrior1 votesekko's numbers come to (in his basic combo) 120 (+10% ap) + 160 (+70% ap) + E (if there are 2 ranks: 80 + 20% ap or 110 if you skip W completely) + 100( passive = 10 + 10 per level + 80% ap) + base attack damage of 86 for a total of 536 + 1.7 AP
if we factor in thunderlords for 5 different sources of damage (passive, Q, Q, E bonus, auto atack damage), the entire combo comes to 626 + 1.9 AP or by level 9, let's say he has 65 AP, a random number for both of them based on reasonable value and build strengths
this comes to a grand total of 749 damage total, almost entirely in magic damage
annie, as you listed, will come to:
175(+80% AP)ult, + W 115(+85% ap)+ Q 220(+80% ap) as you put it 510 + 245% ap
since both are capable of using thunderlords efficiently, we could take a look at that
the efficient combo with annie will likely be:
Q 220(+80% ap)(for a guaranteed stunlock) + ult 175(+80% ap)(+ 40 and 40% ap for 2 seconds of exposure due to move speed unless they flash away) + W 115(+ 85% ap) + a second Q 220(+80% AP) and an auto attack thrown in (only 70 damage for annie) + thunderlords activation 90+ 20% ap
the grand total comes to: 930 + 385% ap
there is a big issue with this though in that Annie has no "basic" combo and instead only an incomplete combo for her damage variations
we can then look at ekko and say by some miracle he manages to pull this off
ult first at the beginning of his combo 200 + 130% ap and add an additional auto attack for another 86 comes to about 371, add that to ekko and his total comes to 1120
it's clear that annie has higher numbers in her total combo and will even survive his full burst, but why is it easier for ekko to pull off an assassination on annie than it is the other way around?
that is the bigger question
3TWarrior1 votesI did some further math and the result is actually quite shocking. Look 2 replies down for my results
AkabaneKun3 votesI said this when he was released and i will say it again, having a delay on a skill does not warrant it having a massive aoe with non scaling stun that stuns everyone for almost 2,5 secs, tank ekko is "OP" because he is a better tank than tanks, he has so much utility on the passive and W alone that it makes some CC tanks cry, fix the W make it scaling and stun for a max 1,5 secs and he will be less rewarding to play tank, buff the Q or E dmg and remove the W passive so he doesn't do decent dmg to dying targets while having 0 AP.
Right now ekko has better mobility than most tanks and better CC potential, until riot keeps wasting time on is dmg he wn't be fixed, it's not like this didn't happen before and they did nerf the base dmg he had.
DEmperor953 votesThe reason they buff his AP ratios whenever they nerf his base damage is to allow AP or AP bruiser Ekko (the intended, balanced playstyle of Ekko) to breakeven in power.
Also please don't tell me that Tank Ekko will be just as broken as he is now with much lower base damages, just because he has all that utility. All tanks have a cerrain degree of utility, and abilities that can easily win teamfights, while being much easier to execute. If his base damages are nerfed, and the items this build abuses get nerfed as well, Tank Ekko will definitely be a lot weaker, since now you are sacrificing a much larger chunk of damage to be tanky and help your team with your utility, which makes the tradeoff much more apparent. Tradeoffs are good for the game, it's Riot's job to balance a champion around those tradeoffs. If Ekko wants to be a tank to abuse his utility, that's fine, as long as he does very little damage as a tradeoff.
Everyone asked for this nerf before. Nerf his base damages, buff his ratios to compensate AP Ekko, and nerf the items and masteries he abuses. Which is exactly happening right now, and is the correct way to solve the problem.
Dengeden2 votesI can make any champion sound horribly designed, it's what happens when you stretch the limits of a simplistic game like League. The only problem is that a lot of his power in lane is tied to his passive, which encourages a tank build so he can actually proc it. But this can be fixed by nerfing the base damage on his waveclear ability, which they are doing.
ZeeWolfZ1 votesIt's not the champion, it's how cheap Tank Items are.
Tank Items vs Typical Top Item Build
2700 vs 
3500
2700 vs 
3600
2900 vs 
3500
2700 vs 
3250
2350 vs 
3400
Just a few examples
ImmortalBloodCY4 votesI honestly find useless in this meta unless you are a Malphite or Rammus.
ZeeWolfZ5 votesYou are right. It has been gutted hard to favor ADCs.
McKeifus1 votesI remember Thornmail being very very good, and recently it seems kinda pointless. I think I somehow missed that it got nerfed. Buffing/reworking it might be a good way to tone down this ADC silliness. Right now it doesn't seem like there's much point in using it.
Vscara1 votesStill it's hilarious, playing Tahm, watching that feed Yi trying to melt down your 3-3,5k hp suddenly realizing he's about to kill himself. I myself find thornmail really underrated.
Supreme Senpai692 votesI don't think it's how cheap tank items are. Otherwise this would be a tank problem, and not an Ekko problem.
Only Play Darius5 votesFunny the tank items don't seem to do shit for me when I play Nasus
DEmperor952 votesIt's how cheap they are while providing a lot of offensive power as well.
Shonjl3 votesTo be fair, its a well know information that the reason tank items are cheaper is because point for point defensive stats don't equal offensive stats. Getting +50 armor is nowhere close to being as good as getting +50 AD.
Zaghyr2 votesThe way I see it, the tank items are too cheap and provide consistent damage. The problem with this is that these items have a price range catores towards players that aren't getting kills, aka tanks. But assassins are getting kills and snowballing out of control from them. Something needs to be done to help tanks get the items quicker while stopping assassins from favoring them.
Great Ozymandius1 votesTrue tank items like randuins, frozen heart, and thornmail have been gutted. What we have instead are these juggernaut/bruiser damage oriented tank items like sunfire, deadman's, maw, clever, titanic hydra, sterak's gage, etc.
Damage soaking tanks are dead. Damage dealing tanks (really, damage dealing assasins and ilk building bruiser tank items) are in.
Oelyk1 votesliterally just change all his damage into bonus ap ratios and nerf the damage on his w passive, problem solved.
Hyper10sion3 votesinto bonus ap ratios
You are kidding right?
