PBE: Manaflow Band nerf is a bit much; can the cooldown please improve with level?

darkdill·Dec 8, 2017·65 votes·3,090 views

https://3.bp.blogspot.com/-r2XghdLV3iE/WisGS_CE7gI/AAAAAAAA1JQ/Qf-HaXSBUPIff5ehxF9tAVXug9ej3OftgCEwYBhgL/s320/manaflow.png

Nerfing Manaflow Band's cooldown to 75 seconds from 60 seconds is pretty rough. While I understand that Riot won't allow "infinite mana" in laning scenarios, it makes the rune useless once you hit later stages of the game due to its extreme downtime.

Would it be possible to make it so that the cooldown decreases as you level up? Or would that make it broken?

45 Comments

ResterDec 8, 201720 votes

Still no status icon so we can see how long it's cooling down for? While I dont particularly care for the nerf I'd love to see when the damn thing comes back up.

waiting for WoWDec 8, 201710 votes

Pretty sure Mana Flow Band is just supposed to be a niche rune for laning and isn't meant to have much impact later on in the game. It's currently too strong and took away the most essential skill of playing a mana based champion and/or mage and that's mana management.

I'd prefer they keep it this way so champions actually have to build mana as opposed to some champions(cough jayce) being able to use manaflow to get through their lane and going full damage.

Daedric EtwahlDec 8, 201726 votes

That's the thing, some champions like Jayce probably really do need this nerf, but other champions are going to really struggle to get by with this nerf, I hate to bring her up but Sona for example is going to be hurting with this.

LankPantsDec 9, 20174 votes

It's almost like they shouldn't gut a champion right before they nerf them in 3 indirect ways.

Spank the FoxDec 9, 20172 votes

She had it coming

The Space CowboyDec 9, 20171 votes

This is why I prefer nerfing the user instead of the item. Unless it's sated devourer... Rageblade 2.0 is so much more fun to play against.

Totally Not JinxDec 10, 20171 votes

Sona can fairly easily be managed with item 1004 item 3303 as starter items.

She relies on poke, so if you go W-Q-E and then max W first, by the time you're at a spot where you're burning mana faster than you can regenerate it you're able to recall and afford item 3098 at the very least.

Starting with W lets you bully the enemy lane because you can sustain your ADC (provided they don't dive like a maniac) and in dire situations keep them off tower.

Manaflow band is still decent imo if you manage your abilities right and time your regeneration with it.

Sona PingDec 8, 201711 votes

[{quoted}](name=waiting for WoW,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=rUhfLKcX,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2017-12-08T22:05:56.698+0000)

Pretty sure Mana Flow Band is just supposed to be a niche rune for laning and isn't meant to have much impact later on in the game. It's currently too strong and took away the most essential skill of playing a mana based champion and/or mage and that's mana management.

I'd prefer they keep it this way so champions actually have to build mana as opposed to some champions(cough jayce) being able to use manaflow to get through their lane and going full damage.

"MFB is a niche rune" If it's supposed to be a niche rune, Riot has weird way of going about it. If it is niche, that means it has limited appeal so if it was supposed to be niche making it the most generally applicable option is not a good way to go about it.

"mana skill" It's not really, except in the broadest of sense. Mana is a limiting factor. Increasing it's limitation doesn't increase skill requirement in the same manner, it inhibits champions from trading/trading back. Increasing that ability and reducing the importance is the direction Riot has been going in over the past years.

"jayce" Nothing would change for Jayce players that know what they are supposed to be doing with the champion, even if it was removed from the game.

Gives No LuxDec 9, 20177 votes

I actually like this nerf. It makes the decision for me to stop being lazy with my mana in lane and take Ultimate Hat like I should be and wreck even more havoc.

AirKingNeoDec 9, 20176 votes

Are you kidding me? This rune is beyond broken and this is barely a nerf.

I abuse this rune almost every game.

chipndip1Dec 9, 20176 votes

Sona So just fuck me, right? Sona

YuGiHoDec 9, 20171 votes

Yo dont worry, sona always comes back; riot cant keep her down.

Eternal TormentDec 9, 20174 votes

Gladly ;D

Brain Errör 404Dec 8, 20175 votes

Honestly, mana flow band should NOT even exist.

MatchmakingSlaveDec 8, 201712 votes

Neither should Nullifying-Orb item 3155

Brain Errör 404Dec 8, 20172 votes

Agreed, nullifying orb also should not exist.

YuGiHoDec 9, 20173 votes

I would prefer we keep orb but delete hexdrinker since atleast i can take orb as an ap champ mid

Twitch ChatDec 8, 20174 votes

Nah this thing is just too strong at pretty much every point in the game. Make xerath have a mana bar again please.

Brain Errör 404Dec 9, 20173 votes

Make every champ have a mana bar. Ever see a Kassadin in this day and age actually have 0 mana? Cuz I don't. The mana is a lie cuz the dude gets 25% of his mana from somewhere randomly.

KuboxDec 9, 20171 votes

You mean, item 3165 , an item that restores 20% mana on every kill/assist?

Brain Errör 404Dec 9, 20171 votes

Except he's getting mana without getting kills or assists.

TikTok FamousDec 9, 20171 votes

kassadins normally build item 3027 and item 3003 . ROA restores mana when taking dmg from enemy champions and Archangel refunds 15% of mana spent

LiteUpSketchersDec 9, 20171 votes

I don't think Kass builds tear but that's just me carry on

BhagswagDec 9, 20173 votes

You do realize if he hits his W on a champion, which you know, is literally what kassadins do, he gets like 20% of mission mana.

2% on minions, but 20% on champions I believe.

WimbledofyDec 9, 20172 votes

He builds rod and lich bane. He only is supposed to run out of mana from getting too much stacks on ult. And Manaflow band isn't what's op on him, it's the one that refunds all mana after a takedown/levelup.

TeCoolMageDec 9, 20171 votes

Yeah presence of mind is what's good on kass not manaflow lol

DontTouchMyBallDec 9, 20173 votes

Sona Q double nerf, forbidden idol nerf considered, now also manaflow nerf, can we all agree we're bending Sona even further? Besides, the inconsistency on this rune is laughable, I'd very much rather have the old Mana Regen Mastery, felt way more reliable.

The mini hexdrinker is situational and ulthat is kinda niche, so of course mana will the the most taken rune for many champs, duh.

Also, this now is personal opinion: this further hurts my OriannaSupport role! I am obliged to take the only mana rune from the sorc tree, which will suck even more than be4!

I would gladly take ult-hat if I hadnt such mana sustain problems with Orianna. I end up spending more mana shielding my ADC from Ez'/Velkoz'/Brand' poke that they spend on their Poking! Besides... their damage goes through!

How about nerf champs instead of runes? Thats a way of balancing while not Nerfing others!

notice me Sin piDec 9, 20171 votes

Orianna support is also getting an indirect buff from the Yasuo buffs too, if ur ally plays Yasuo . Due to the travel time on orianna E, I personally find it a bit unreliable. I prefer to go for trades rather than shielding; it's more mana cost friendly as well, and it works well with item 3303 procs compared to shield style support

DontTouchMyBallDec 9, 20171 votes

[{quoted}](name=notice me Sin pi,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=rUhfLKcX,comment-id=000c0000,timestamp=2017-12-09T15:20:29.334+0000)

support is also getting an indirect buff from the buffs too, if ur ally plays . Due to the travel time on orianna E, I personally find it a bit unreliable. I prefer to go for trades rather than shielding; it's more mana cost friendly as well, and it works well with procs compared to shield style support

After the buffs, more often than not I'll look to ban Yasuo, except if a premade wants him. It's inconsistency is frustating, players either feed hard or carry hard, no middleground. I rather not have him on my team most of the time, but yeah with Orianna is different and also a reason to not ban him at all.

I suppose your right, I've focused to much on shielding the AD only specially levels one, two and three, I could harass more probably, The thing: -is Ori is squishy, -the ball remains on the ADC for passive stats, -I have to return the ball to him which consumes to much mana, -while I'm without the ball Im squishier.

use QW for harass is a suicide for my manapool in lane, trust me.

Its also a matter of practice and decision making and Im getting good at manipulating who carries the ball at the right time. By default I take spellthieves and thats mainly because the coin mana regen feels pretty horrible: it puts me in odd situations in order to get mana/coins, and is bad when I rotate because there are no minions around me dying! And its mana regen keeps being bad even after its final upgrade.

Pre-season has orisupp deal a lot more damage than be4 to where harass is a viable option, it.... feels weird, Janna is already an harrass focused supp too, so much for variety. [slayer-jinx-unamused]

undesirable teamDec 9, 20171 votes

everyone was using manaflow band tho

DontTouchMyBallDec 9, 20171 votes

[{quoted}](name=very toxic xd,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=rUhfLKcX,comment-id=000c0001,timestamp=2017-12-09T21:26:14.033+0000)

everyone was using manaflow band tho

Some champion benefit way much more than others. I hardly have mana issues with Soraka, manaflow is Overkill. The Ultimate Hat is undeniably the only Rune I can run in that row for Soraka. Soraka

Now, let's talk Nami for example. I dont specifically run out of mana with Nami frequently to justify this rune, I don't need Manaflow on her... but I take regardless as the best option of the 3 for her. Nami

Ohh wait! Same for Morgana! I hardly have mana issues on her but I also take it on her simply because the other runes of hexdrinker and UltHat feel rather USELESS and disapointing on her! Morgana

Now with my very serious Orianna-Support which I ran out of mana very easily: although, I want to run Ultimate Hat on her, I got no choice, I need mana regen more than anything, and its being nerfed! Orianna

In conclusion:

I couldnt care less about the manaflow nerf for the likes of Nami, Morgana, Janna but that won't stop me from using since the other options suck IMO.
For the likes of my supports like Orianna and Blitzcrank, well, that's an undeeded and unwelcome nerf!

Solutions:

Smart balancing instead of Lazy Balancing: by nerfing the champs that actually abusing the rune and not the rune itself.
Accept that others runes will never be as popular as manaflow and are more situational (ulthat for lategame, hexdrinker vs AP)
Help those that depend on the rune to be relevant since we are nerfing it.

Last note: (why I only used supports as an example, simply because I keep playing this role for some reason... despite the changes trying to keep me away from it) Sona item 3070 item 3114 item 3222 item 3107 item 3504

junglerboy16Dec 9, 20173 votes

It inherently scales into the game since you have a much larger mana pool and therefore restore higher amounts of mana as the game goes on. This nerf was necessary, and it doesn't need a buff for late game.

Totally Not JinxDec 10, 20171 votes

This.

I honestly barely notice the thing late-game because by then I've got item 3107 item 3504 wombo-combo-ing to keep my mana regen up enough.

Unironic SJWDec 9, 20172 votes

This is a good nerf, and honestly a bit less than it deserves. It's a huge reason why MF is so out of line btw, because I can use Make it Rain a lot more freely when it's not eating 25% of my max mana.

Spank the FoxDec 9, 20171 votes

Once every second wave for 80 damage, at best....?

I don’t think it’s that

k wìxDec 8, 20171 votes

No way around it, there MUST be a rune to help with mana issues. It was probably overtuned. This seems healthy. ** Even as a filthy Xerath support nuking people to oblivion in the early game, i'm still going to take it. ** The fact that its still that appealing means the adjustment was probably justified.

What I DON'T like, however.. is that we're not really seeing many AD Burst nerfs on the board.

Who is TaliyahDec 9, 20171 votes

Switching to nulliying orb every game I play vs AP then. just have to plan my mana better then no big deal.

Twitch ChatDec 9, 20171 votes

{quoted}

Switching to nulliying orb every game I play vs AP then. just have to plan my mana better then no big deal.

in exchange for several extra spell casts in lane u now get to block 1/3rd of an arcanopulse once every 60 seconds when you drop below 30%hp wow congratulations

Who is TaliyahDec 9, 20171 votes

Comes down to your playstyle mostly. If I just plan out how much mana I use and get lost chapter asap then there is no need in having manaflow band just like with the old runes. Nullifying orb saves in clutch situations, can make trades more worthy and overall prevents you from dying too often.

Overall comes down to your own preferance. I will go with Nullifying orb.

YuGiHoDec 9, 20171 votes

I find that orb is a lifesaver when playing kat vs ap or playing any ap vs fizz since early fights with him tend to be really close

Emerald FangDec 9, 20171 votes

That means you’re using it about 10 times during lane phase.

Honestly, could be better, but after lane phase mana is basically unlimited (a major game flaw) so it won’t really do anything. Definitely still a strong early game pick.

TheGoomyGamerDec 9, 20171 votes

Mana is designed to be a non-gate in the late game.

Champion SkinDec 9, 20171 votes

Not entirely true Kassadin KogMaw Swain they all have ramping mana costs which does make mana a problem but does allow them to push further if they are willing to keep buring mana