Why oh god damn why Riot
Edit: to the idiots who didn't do their homework and has no idea what this buff is all about (spoiler: this was on PBE for some weeks now, and this made Vayne literally invincible and cranked her DPS by a massive amount, this is not overreacting), here is a small sneak peak to how every single games you won't ban Vayne will look like: https://youtu.be/EveF2F9FKMY?t=54
ContDeCaterinca136 votesVayne is already such a strong kiter, why would she need the buff for?
With 
she is gonna go full John Cena on everyone.
Wild Geese10 votesVayne is already such a strong kiter, why would she need the buff for?
With
John Cena? More like John Wick.
Elohaven5 votesVayne doesn't build ER.
Why don't people learn what cost efficiency is?
Lil Homie busta1 votes
It's not like its gold efficient on those guys too. Its just the active effect being too strong and overloaded.
Dr Dog27 votesnot that vayne was in a bad place to begin with, she was fairly balanced
the shy top13 votesYea I'm permabanning vayne just like I did in season 7 when she was broken. She was picked every single game. So I just banned the b*tch.
Midg3t12 votesSo Gosu wannabes can make EPIC VAYNE MONTAGE!!11!1!!! [300 IQ SILVER PLAYS AND MECHANICAL SKILLZZ]
GelsominoKiller9 votesTime for some quality league of legends I guess
:^)
Lhuhz7 votesBoards shitshow incoming.
Dont forget that she gets a new skin with Prestige versión aswell.
NodirjonSattarov4 votesLooks like when you spam LR + side analog on SSB
Moonscourge3 votesIt doesnt change anything. Nasus got the same buffs and he got like 2% winrate, still not played.
Ypou gotta forget about that video you saw with 40% cdr. It doesnt doa nything. You need to get the autos out to make use of it at all.
Bârd28 votesNasus got the same buff, but still sucks because he can't get on people to make use of it.
Vayne doesn't have this problem.
Moonscourge2 votesShe still is a 550 range champion that tumbles into her death. Vayne DEFINITELY has this problem.
LTK KoRo20 votes550 range argument was valid 2 years ago, currently it's a pretty average range
Daddy Ants8 votes[{quoted}](name=LTK KoRo,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=rKixEgdv,comment-id=0004000000000000,timestamp=2019-01-08T22:55:56.268+0000)
550 range argument was valid 2 years ago, currently it's a pretty average range
It's actually not.
Vayne has no damage that exceeds that 550 range, she's locked into that range.
all have ways to exceed their auto attack range and still be able to deal damage
PaffWasTaken14 votesDoesn't matter anymore since she is basically untouchable now because of that buff. The only way to kill her now is to CC deathball her without leaving her a single quarter of a second to cast anything. Also, with a short dash that can be cast almost twice per second, who needs range?
Sneaky Jew10 votes"Vayne has short range" is a false statement. The original statement that was twisted with the years by lowlifes is that Vayne has no poke. She trades poke for having superior no counterplay DPS and in combat mobility and invisibility, which is the most powerful thing in a marksman fight(who gets to land the first BBC crit)
AirKingNeo5 votes"no counterplay DPS"
you never heard of zoning?
LTK KoRo3 votesZoning, ah yeah, the stuff which you can do only if you have more than 550+tumble range. That's pretty limited
Elohaven6 votesVayne facing a pool of assassins or mages is zoning. She has to wait until CC is wasted or blown to go in or she gets destroyed by one ability often.
The basis of Vayne is timing and exploitation of player mistakes, not pure strength and DPS. Anytime Vayne has been stronger in raw DPS, she's been nerfed. MF, Jinx, Kai'Sa, Twitch, Tristana, Draven, Caitlyn beat Vayne in purely autos.
Vayne risks more agains teams which is why she doesn't see pro play often. It's risky to go in constantly if you aren't aware of what can hit you once you go in as she's an all-in champion.
Bronze GOAT1 votesVayne beats every ADC in a duel once she gets her items and that was before this buff. Before you had to work to get 1 auto off on her, now if you aren't on the ball you might not even get 1 auto on her before she returns to stealth. Plus she still has condemn.
Elohaven7 votes????
LTK KoRo2 votesRiot literally states Vayne's kit is a duelist designed to win fights 1v1 against ADCs everyone.
FTFY
Elohaven1 votesTo excel*. But yeah.
She struggles greatly against other duelists like Fiora and Yasuo and Riven where the fights are very conditional between the participating parties.
HeeroTX1 votesJust want to note, Tristana has exactly ZERO abilities that are effective when the opponent is invisible/untargetable.
Elohaven2 votesI said in raw DPS - meaning just autos. Tristana does beat Vayne. Vayne is reliant on her ultimate to beat Tristana while Tristana is only reliant on her E meaning there's more opportunities in the game where Tristana does beat Vayne - especially with the range advantage as the first hit from an ADC to another usually determines the fight.
And Vayne is supposed to beat Tristana when she has her ult. That's the point of her kit. You need to be scared of her as that's her preferred situation and win condition. As Tristana, your goal is to nullify her ult reset or make the timer run out so you can burst Vayne afterwards.
And Tristana's E is effective when a person is invisible/untargetable as long as it's cast prior.
HeeroTX1 votesThe result of multiple tumbles is (as seen in the video) Vayne can keep going invisible. In such a scenario, my point was you CAN'T hit her with that initial E or anything else, because you can't "lock on". This is from one of the game designers on reddit:
Thought you guys might enjoy this one. This means about 50% stealth uptime (1 second stealthed, ~1 second unstealthed). We really do plan to ship this exact change in 9.1.
I'm not saying it is LITERALLY impossible to hit Vayne with targeted abilities when she's got 50% stealth time, but it is very, VERY hard, and is a GIANT boost over the targeted abilities over most ADCs. For reference, its a big enough pain in the ass that ADCs used to keep pink wards on hand against Vayne, you know, back when that actually DID something.
Tristana has the same issue with Yi's Alpha Strike btw, but THAT thing (altho annoying as hell), afaik, doesn't have a 50% uptime ... yet.
Elohaven1 votesTristana's E is a point-and-click and her auto can be casted as she places her E in that second. It's not hard to land it.
She's also meant to lose to Vayne 1v1 because Vayne's win condition is during her ult. She's supposed to lose that fight unless she's ahead of Vayne.
Sneaky Jew2 votesthat meant that there's no way to play around her damage unlike any other champion in the game, except tryndamere.
Elohaven3 votesVayne still has the shortest range in account of abilities which is what is mainly addressed.
It'll be ignorant to account for only range when abilities aren't factored in. This is why most of the ADC pool can zone Vayne early on and thus she has a "weak" early. If this was not the case, then Vayne should be winning matchups early if she's equal at least and not have a weak early.
Bronze GOAT2 votesVayne's range only matters in lane. Once she's ulting and dashing/disappearing in teamfights she's gonna fair a lot better in a team fight than any other ADC outside of the ones with over 600 range.
Elohaven3 votesHer range only mattering in lane is inaccurate. A look at LCS shows this.
Vayne has to wait for enemy CC and abilities to be on CD before engaging. It's very dicey for her. Lucian can ult in teamfights. Sivir has her Q and W and E. Only Kalista has more of an issue in teamfights than Vayne.
Vayne moreso picks you off if you misposition.
Her range matters constantly as a Caitlyn can kill her in 3 fights in a teamfight or Draven can burst her if she does not get the element of surprise.
This buff is exactly aimed at making Vayne more viable in teamfights. She's not good at them compared to most ADCs.
Lhuhz4 voteswho needs range?
Well Kalista had unlimited dashes and got gutted when they nerfed her aa range, if you think that range doesn't matter on an adc I dont think you have played any of them on a long time.
Arakadia2 votesCasting twice per second isn't going to be common or realistic the vast majority of the time when fighting her.
That said it is a bs buff.
Eternal Torment2 votesthey actually do not lol
Their Abilities do not somehow extend their attack ranges.
Some of these ADCs have naturally high range or an imbound mechanic to help with it which are Caitlyn, Tristana, Twitch and Kog'maw
Every other of these ADC either has a naturally higher range or has to build RPC to get a larger range for their AA
What they do have is abilities that help get close enough to use it. Vayne already had that, but that supporting mechanic that synergises with her kit LITERALLY had it's effectivity doubled.
Elohaven5 votesLucian's Q and R have a longer range. MF ult,Q, and E have a longer range. Sivir W and Q have a longer range. Jinx Q,W,E,R has a longer range. Ezreal Q, W, R, E has a longer range. Ashe has a longer range. Jhin has a longer range.
Actually, he's correct - their abilities do have longer ranges than Vayne. Vayne's only asset is her Q and autos. Her E is within the confines of her range.
Eternal Torment1 votesThe discussion was Auto attack ranges. The argument was Skills only enlargen them on a very specific set of the Marksmen listed whereas others have a larger range already.
Where did this trail off from AA range to general range?
Elohaven3 votes"Vayne has short range" is a false statement. The original statement that was twisted with the years by lowlifes is that Vayne has no poke. She trades poke for having superior no counterplay DPS and in combat mobility and invisibility, which is the most powerful thing in a marksman fight(who gets to land the first BBC crit)
"Vayne has short range is a false statement"
Weren't talking about AA range. In that case, Kalista is the shortest but when people say Vayne has the lowest range they mean by abilities+AA range. It'd be really ignorant just to discuss range without the basis of abilities and items.
My argument still stands.
Eternal Torment1 votes[{quoted}](name=LTK KoRo,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=rKixEgdv,comment-id=000400000000000000010000,timestamp=2019-01-09T14:18:19.871+0000)
Because since then AA ranges of ADCs were mostly nerfed. Not every ADC got nerfed, but some of them, like Kalista. Back then low range was a meaningful handicap. Currently the best ADCs have same or shorter range than Vayne:
: 550
Honestly i don't think the range argument against Vayne was ever valid, but Vayne apologist stick to it. But now, it's even more invalid than ever
Since all you are going to do is write an extended version of No U I will leave this quote as my response.
Elohaven3 votesClearly stated I wasn't talking about the stat called range. I accounted abilities.
But willful ignorance is good for you if you want to not read.
Lhuhz3 votesWhy was a valid argument 2 years ago but not now?
LTK KoRo1 votesBecause since then AA ranges of ADCs were mostly nerfed. Not every ADC got nerfed, but some of them, like Kalista. Back then low range was a meaningful handicap. Currently the best ADCs have same or shorter range than Vayne:
: 500
: 525
: 550
: 550
: 550
Honestly i don't think the range argument against Vayne was ever valid, but Vayne apologist stick to it. But now, it's even more invalid than ever
Lhuhz2 votesBecause since then AA ranges of ADCs were mostly nerfed. Not every ADC got nerfed, but some of them, like Kalista
And Kalista sucks hard since they nerfed her range because it's massive the difference of aa range.
Back then low range was a meaningful handicap. Currently the best ADCs have same or shorter range than Vayne:
But those adcs have been meta numerous times in the past aswell (not Kai'Sa because she didn't existed ofc) while having "short range", its not something brand new to have adcs like Lucian and Ezreal as the best adcs and remember old Graves that would jump into your face to burst you on S4.
Looking at them you have Jhin and Draven that work on a similar way in the sense that they go for a few aa's compared to most adcs to deal their dmg, they are not forced to be all the time in range to perform, and worth to mention that both buy RFC as second (Jhin) or third (Draven usually). Both have way more actual range in the way they play than Vayne for their kits.
Ezreal has 550 range atack but his Q which is his main dmg has 1150 range and so his W for not even talk about his ultimate.
The only two adcs that are meta that are short range adcs are Kai'Sa and Lucian, Ezreal, Jhin and Draven are defienetely not short range adcs by the way they play.
You are only looking at the atack range but it's worthless to only see that because you could end up with the conclusion that both Ezreal and Vayne have the same range when it's not.
PaffWasTaken11 votesNasus doesn't become invisible/untargetable while casting Q in R and doesn't have %MaxHealth true damage that can melt a tank in 3 procs. He doesn't dash everytime he casts Q either and he is a melee champion. Compairing his past buff to Vayne's current one means nothing at all.
Elohaven2 votesBut Vayne can't melt a tank in 3 hits. Math proves this wrong immediately.
We also live in a burst meta where Vayne dealing this much damage is harder to pull off since people will be focusing her once she hits 3 items.
PaffWasTaken1 votesBut Vayne can't melt a tank in 3 hits
I didn't say in 3 hits, I said in 3** procs**, refering to her W procs exploding directly a tank's max health through true damage, which in total means, basically, 9 auto attacks. But since she can get up to 2.50 atk speed like nothing and that she has now an auto attack reset every single second, this is done in barely 4 seconds top.
Daddy Ants6 votesI didn't say in 3 hits, I said in 3** procs**, refering to her W procs exploding directly a tank's max health through true damage, which in total means, basically, 9 auto attacks. But since she can get up to 2.50 atk speed like nothing and that she has now an auto attack reset every single second, this is done in barely 4 seconds top.
3 procs is still 9 auto attacks without a Rageblade.
6 with a Rageblade.
If you let Vayne stick to you for 6/9 autos without any sort of retaliation or disengage then that's completely on you.
Any decent Top laner, Mid laner or jungler will make sure Vayne top doesn't get to play the game
Elohaven4 votesNo - it's not 4 seconds top.
At 1.75+ AS, tumble actually starts cutting off her DPS and it gets hard to manage her DPS at 2.0AS+. It's not like you won't focus her, right? Don't tell me you don't - then you deserve to be shredded in 4 seconds because at 2.5AS she's late-game.
And Vayne is a late-game champion doing late-game things.
And 3 procs doesn't melt a tank either. 14% MAX HP True damage. My point still stands, math proves you wrong.
