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Evelynn

Unreformed Shaco··1 votes·573 views

Shaco gets all early game damage gutted. Rengar gets entire kit gutted because of their ability to gank from stealth.

But here we have Eve, who has permanent stealth and cannot be warded against, is allowed to keep her full damage with less than 1 sec cd skills.

What kind of horseshit hypocrisy is that?

She is the queen of burst from stealth and you did nothing to stop that snowball.

"Ward her camps"

YES LETS GIVE UP XP AND CS TO WALK INTO HER TERRITORY WITH HER TEAM JUST SO WE HAVE A ROUGH IDEA WHERE SHE IS. You see her at wolves, she can either gank bot or mid.

"Buy control wards"

She can gank from 3 seperate locations for top/bot and 4 from mid. You are limited to 1 control ward each. She also gets alerted when she is near one, so she clears it, waits twenty seconds and comes back.

You claim there is no innate counterplay to Shaco's stealth but he at least needs to walk through wards to be in range of his Q.

"But she gets shown at 700 range"

Also gets 70% movespeed on demand that removes slows. It takes her less than one second to travel that 700 gap.

Why the double standard? Why is it okay for one stealth assassin to keep all damage early but not others?

6 Comments

Tormentula2 votes

Uh she's getting a rework in a month or two but if you feel nows the time to circle jerk her then sure.

  • can't be warded against

item 2055 buy them.

  • queen of burst from stealth and you did nothing to stop that snowball.

Emphasis on you did nothing, take the precaution of not shoving early, and usually eve can't solo invade the jungler due to how unhealthy her clear is and she doesnt have mobility other than flash (unless she cheeses you with ignite like shaco does)

  • lets give up XP to ward her camps!

Wut... all you have to do is ward: river to see her do scuttle, her raptors which you can reach while CSing as a mid laner, and if you're pushed up as a red side top laner you can easily ward her blue jungle as your wave pushes and they freeze, otherwise you should shoved in to where eve can't gank.

  • she can gank from 3 seperate locations for top/bot and 4 for mid

Lol no. Control warding the bush in the river prevents her from sneaking through behind you or through the lane bush mid lane. The other lanes she either has to walk around the jungle through the tribush or walk straight down the river (one being revealed by the river bush control ward, the other being revealed by your general bot lane control ward. The only angles she can gank from as freely are down the lane itself, which isn't honestly that hard sneaking into top or bot bushes as any jungler and mid lane there's more room to run.

  • no innate counterplay to shaco

Because shaco's stealth comes with a free flash, CC through boxes, assassin burst, the mind game with which clone is his, and the cheese playstyle of him living in your jungle sometimes or forcing you to guess what buff he's taking. Evelynn has to walk up to you with no mobility and hardly any escapes, and all she can do is damage. Also he is impossible to see through all wards, eve isn't. Eve is a lot more binary then shaco.

Unreformed Shaco1 votes

{quoted}

Uh she's getting a rework in a month or two but if you feel nows the time to circle jerk her then sure.

  • can't be warded against

item 2055 buy them.

You're limited to 1. She has multiple paths to gank that don't require her to walk through it.

  • queen of burst from stealth and you did nothing to stop that snowball.

Emphasis on you did nothing, take the precaution of not shoving early, and usually eve can't solo invade the jungler due to how unhealthy her clear is and she doesnt have mobility other than flash (unless she cheeses you with ignite like shaco does)

No mobility? Her W gives movespeed and has a low cooldown. Not shoving early? Not shoving at all* And she can quite easily walk through tri for bot lane.

Wut... all you have to do is ward: river to see her do scuttle, her raptors which you can reach while CSing as a mid laner, and if you're pushed up as a red side top laner you can easily ward her blue jungle as your wave pushes and they freeze, otherwise you should shoved in to where eve can't gank.

So assuming she takes scuttler we can see her. And as I explained, knowing where she is doesn't help know when she is coming in to gank. You can see her do chickens, cool. Now she walks off the map and you have no way of seeing which of the 6 paths into mid she is going to take. Or she just waits 6 seconds, returns to stealth and walks through your ward. This halfass excuse of "ward her camps" applies to every fucking jungler in the game, the only difference is you can see when they are coming in AFTER the camp. Who gives a fuck about her taking them?

  • she can gank from 3 seperate locations for top/bot and 4 for mid

Lol no. Control warding the bush in the river prevents her from sneaking through behind you or through the lane bush mid lane. The other lanes she either has to walk around the jungle through the tribush or walk straight down the river (one being revealed by the river bush control ward, the other being revealed by your general bot lane control ward. The only angles she can gank from as freely are down the lane itself, which isn't honestly that hard sneaking into top or bot bushes as any jungler and mid lane there's more room to run.

Are you kidding? She walks into river, sees it is control warded and clears it. Now she has free roam, unless you decide to recall and buy another one. Brilliant idea, gold efficient to the max!

  • no innate counterplay to shaco

Because shaco's stealth comes with a free flash, CC through boxes, assassin burst, the mind game with which clone is his, and the cheese playstyle of him living in your jungle sometimes or forcing you to guess what buff he's taking. Evelynn has to walk up to you with no mobility and hardly any escapes, and all she can do is damage. Also he is impossible to see through all wards, eve isn't. Eve is a lot more binary then shaco.

CC through boxes, that you can literally just walk away from. His "free flash" is limited to 400 units, so you can ward river and see him use it. This is common fucking knowledge. Living in your jungle? He has a slow clear and low damage early game.

We aren;t talking mind games. Shaco mindgames aren't relevant during ganks. I find it much easier to avoid Shaco ganks than Eve ganks.

Tohob2 votes

[{quoted}](name=Unreformed Shaco,realm=OCE,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=rFEeE4Op,comment-id=,timestamp=2017-07-10T22:14:05.441+0000)

Shaco gets all early game damage gutted. Rengar gets entire kit gutted because of their ability to gank from stealth.

But here we have Eve, who has permanent stealth and cannot be warded against, is allowed to keep her full damage with less than 1 sec cd skills.

are you trying to imply that eve is the less gutted party here? i'd rather play against an eve than a shaco or a rengar any day of the week, and if i were forced to play either eve, who i've actually played quite a bit and have learned, or shaco, who i've played twice in my life, i'd definitely pick shaco.

Calabok1 votes

yea. gut that pygmy girl

DrugsForRobots1 votes

I think it's funny that Ghostcrawler talked about 'wisdom of the crowds magic' in finding solutions, but the crowds don't seem to see the truth in what you're saying, which I guess proves his point.

I agree with you, and I want you to mark my words: Riot will solve nothing with Evelynn's VGU if she does NOT get an audio cue / sound FX that plays as she come near you / while she's near you. Riot got it right with Rengar - its less frustrating getting murdered from invis if you can hear them coming. All of the 'stealth champions' need some form of tell-tale signs, both aural and visual, so they can feel fair AND still have damage and utility (power budget and stuff).

Shaco has his puff of smoke, which could use a visual update / polish and an evil laugh upon disappearing, but you can't hear the laugh. If you could, his ganks would be harder to pull off, meaning he could afford to have his damage back. Also, his boxes stifle his potential - besides a handful of 'anti-trap' items, you're basically guaranteed to stumble into their hard CC and DoT. I mean, wouldn't it give Shaco's enemies more opportunity for counterplay if his Boxes had a wind-down timer before springing, like Jhin's traps? Wouldn't that open up his power budget and make him less frustrating to play against? And if he and Teemo's traps had that sort of functionality, then we wouldn't need the 'anti-trap' items that exist solely to counter their traps, yeah?

But what do I know about balance?

Edit:

PS. It's funny how the stealth genre of video games relies heavily on audio cues and SFX for letting the player know if they're in danger or have been discovered. Thief: The Dark Project, arguably the game that defined the genre, had this stuff figured out 20+ years ago, but Riot is still puzzling out how to make stealth fun and fair...

Unreformed Shaco1 votes

{quoted}

Shaco has his puff of smoke, which could use a visual update / polish and an evil laugh upon disappearing, but you can't hear the laugh. If you could, his ganks would be harder to pull off, meaning he could afford to have his damage back. Also, his boxes stifle his potential - besides a handful of 'anti-trap' items, you're basically guaranteed to stumble into their hard CC and DoT. I mean, wouldn't it give Shaco's enemies more opportunity for counterplay if his Boxes had a wind-down timer before springing, like Jhin's traps? Wouldn't that open up his power budget and make him less frustrating to play against? And if he and Teemo's traps had that sort of functionality, then we wouldn't need the 'anti-trap' items that exist solely to counter their traps, yeah?

Shaco mains have been asking for the laugh for ages, but Riot say that it would be too powerful due to paranoia. You can hear him but he isn't necessarily ganking.

I also want a wind up on Shaco boxes, and suggested a change recently.

ATM as soon as you hit the 300 range you get shot and feared. I'd prefer it if it waited 0.5 seconds and then popped. In that 0.5 seconds, the second last line of pop goes the weasel plays. It gives counterplay because you can hear it, but if you don't move you are punished heavier because you are closer to the box.

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