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I think I finally realized I am done with the game.

Unreformed Shaco·Jul 22, 2017·116 votes·7,493 views

**Let me start by saying this isn't a "QQ toxic community" or "QQ learn to balance Riot". I think the balance is fine for the most part and the community is no different than every community in the world, not just gaming ones. **

I've played since Season 2. Been through all the changes.

I think I am finally ready to accept that it isn't the same game I started playing 7 years ago. With each change, the game becomes more focused on the champion you pick, rather than the items you build. Every top laner builds the same items. Every mage builds the same items. Every marksman builds the same items.

There's no real choice making. There's no proper hybrids anymore.

There used to be options like "I really like XXX champion, and I can play them how I want."

Now it's just "pick the highest tier champs and build the same 6 items as everyone else". It's all focused and balanced around the optimal build/style to be as competitive as you can.

I'm not saying there's no skill involved. It still comes down to how well you handle said champ, and how much you can outplay your opponent. I am just saying that it isn't as fun.

Over one hundred champs and there are only a few unique ones.

Sure, the micro plays are different, but realistically most ADCs are all the same thing in a different skin. All mages do the same thing, with the same items... they just look different.

I miss the days of AP Tristana mid, Blitz Jungle or Elise top. AP Caitlyn mid was never on the pro scene, so I can't understand why she lost her AP ratios. AD players wouldn't build AP so it's not like it's breaking her regular play, it was just there for fun.

Sadly the best role was buffed and focused on while off-builds were nerfed or reworked out.

It's just not as fun anymore.

In pursuit of competition all the fun has been stomped out.

222 Comments

DatalessJul 22, 201779 votes

I understand the point that the OP is trying to make, but I also recognize that they are making some pretty gross over-generalizations, I will go into them below.

Every top laner builds the same items. Every mage builds the same items. Every marksman builds the same items

This is simply untrue. Most champions within the same CLASS will build similar items, yes, but to simply say "all of x lane builds the same items" is not.

Let's have an example.

A top lane fighter/diver such as Renekton JarvanIV Kled will build item 3748 item 3071 item 3193 . These items offer a growing bruiser what they need to succeed. HP, some AD, and the ability to enter teamfights and not die instantly.

A split push champion such as Yorick Camille Trundle might substitute a item 3071 for a item 3078 , as it enhances the auto attack reset element of their kit. Trundle might also go item 3074 rather than item 3748 since that compliments his innate sustain. Yorick REALLY loves item 3512 , as it empowers his already very potent tower-taking power.

Gnar wants a item 3022 , somewhat unique among most other top lane fightey types.

And then there is Tryndamere , who loves his item 3153 item 3046 item 3087 etc

Top lane tanks have their own set of items they like. Stuff like item 3068 item 3065 item 3800 etc. Tanks will vary their build from game to game depending on the lane match and the damage type they need to mitigate. Their is also some variance based on playstyle, if you want to play a very supportive top lane tank and key into protecting your carries item 3193 item 3190 item 3109 are there for you, and while those items are powerful (and very meta) you don't HAVE to build them, and selfish power tanks items can be a perfectly acceptable choice as well.

I could keep going, I can talk about mid lane mages. Cassiopeia Ryze have a different build than Ahri or Leblanc , then there are the mid lane AD champions Zed Talon .

The same goes for marksmen, Kalista does not build the same as Caitlyn who build differently than Jhin who build differently than KogMaw .

Supports actually get to have f-cking items now, not just boots and wards from back when I started playing.

The point I am making is that this game does still have variance WHERE IT IS NEEDED. The trick of the item system is recognizing what your champions strengths are within their respective class, and building the items that highlight that. The item system in league is subtle and succinct, and typically whenever a particular item finds widespread success outside of it's intended user (league of black cleavers, lethality from the start of this season, etc) those edge-cases are typically brought back in line in short order. That being said, Riot still has a very long way to go in order to bring the game into balance, there are forgotten champions like Azir and pre-rework Galio Urgot , there are binary and frustrating champions Pantheon , and then there is Yasuo >.>

Now, none of this means anything since the OP has "lost the fun" in League, and that is not something I disrespect or disdain in any way. It's your life, your choice, if the game isn't fun don't play. The point I AM making is that "X lane all builds the same items" simply isn't true. At all.

AirKingNeoJul 22, 20178 votes

Might be very unpopular opinion about ADC items, but I really like the diversity that's been brought. It used to be purely crit builds, but now we have Lethality start into Crit, BoRK start, lethality stacking, onhit, ect. They're all different, interesting, and should be made to balanced. The level of diversity is way more interest and much more fun.

My only problem is the lack of balance in multiple regards between builds and also the ability to build for an early game without suffering at all late game.

5000000000000000Jul 22, 20173 votes

I agree on diversity, but diversity doesn't seem to come with adequate enough tradeoff. There is still the optimal build, it just differs based on which ADC you're playing at the moment.

zero356Jul 22, 201741 votes

Name does NOT check out

DatalessJul 22, 201717 votes

Ha! That's one of the best compliments I have ever received on a forum.

NiyumiJul 22, 201728 votes

[deleted]

zxinferxzJul 22, 20174 votes

As a reply to both you and OP: Certain game that has always been LoL's direct competition, and whose name ends with a "2" has evolved and has kept a very healthy balance that shows in the competitive scene, in the low and high solo ranked scene, and even the pub scene, and has loads of "for fun" builds that are actually viable and winning games in the current meta. In that game, winning hasn't devolved into just milking the most optimal and viable stuff the very hardest you can, and people are still building pretty differently

So don't pull sh** off your ass when you say "gaming" isn't about fun anymore just because you're projecting what you feel about LoL's current state of affairs

ModCaptainMårvelousJul 22, 201712 votes

...Uh. What.

The DOTA2 comparison is especially ironic because those "for fun" builds turned into builds that ended up working. They're not "for fun" anymore, they're outright viable. This isn't "HAHA FULL DAGON AM LOL WHATEVER", this is theory crafting. Mostly because items are less stat sticks and more about actives. (Which admittedly League has been moving more toward. I just wish they'd do it faster).

Also, let's not pretend that low-rank DOTA is often fun for players. Certain picks dominate low-tier games to a degree league would probably balk at but they're fine because pro-tier games.

Just as an example, how many people would be collectively shitting themselves and screaming on the forums because the top 4 heroies all have 56% win rates if this was league? How many would cry for Io/Broodmother reworks because of how bad they are? This doesn't fly in DOTA because competitive balance.

And I'm not saying this is wrong. But let's be clear that you need to devote a lot of time into DOTA2. More time than the average person has and until they devote that time (and maybe even after it) they can and will be stomped by things that are trash in comp. play but nutso in PUB play. Then again, fun is subjective so whatever floats your boat.

DessemJul 22, 20171 votes

I actually picked up LoL in S5, after having played DOTA2 for a while. Can confirm that DOTA2 has frustrating OP champs as well.

I quit that game after the eight months of Troll Warlord dominance, where the Draft Mode was (is?) annoyingly hard to coordinate as solo player because one person on each team has all the picks and bans in their hands.

People sometimes forget how incredibly accessible LoL's developers are, and that they update much more frequently than DOTA.

DOTA2 "for fun" builds are stuff like ADC Lina Inverse, which is equivalent to ADC Kennen; but if you fuck around and build whatever, you lose. DOTA2 lets you report people during the game so you just wind up raging less over trolly "for fun" builds because instant report gratification.

ModCaptainMårvelousJul 22, 20173 votes

I want to make it clear it's not that DOTA2 has "OP" heroes. Everyone, in some category, is OP in DOTA. The frustration comes that in unorganized PUB play, certain heroes shine far harder than others. Which in turn leads to frustration with casual players.

BlakiepugJul 22, 201727 votes

Yeah, I feel like this season especially that the balance has been heading in the wrong direction. I liked when champions had tons of different builds they could go and still have a shot to win with. Right now you can tell how most lanes will go based on the champions that are picked which I think is wrong. No champ should be an auto-win in lane.

I think you really hit on a key concept that doesn't get a lot of light but is definitely part of the reason the game hasn't felt as enjoyable to me lately. AP Rengar is no longer a thing, Riot tried their best to kill AP Kog, and the new champion Kayn doesn't have any AP scalings whatsoever. I definitely miss seeing alternate playstyles. Heck it was a lot more interesting than seeing 5-10 Duskblades and Youmoo's every game.

Sugar MommaJul 22, 201713 votes

Not saying this season's balance has been perfect...But Season 6 was particularly bad.

Somewhere around Season 4-5 the balance of the game felt right.

TonyTonyMordecaiJul 22, 20175 votes

Right at the end of Season 5 for me was when balance was close to perfect

Sraeg2013Jul 22, 20173 votes

It surely was ideal.

Not perfect, but ideal.

korg023Jul 23, 20174 votes

It is just that everything that was VIABLE not broken but VIABLE Riot just nerfs. They are over buffing and over nerfing stuff. I am not going into details but just use your brain on this one. Whenever you feel like you are having fun , they nerf that thing. Since having fun means winning or killing bunch of dudes, feeling power in general it is bad, you should expect that thing nerfed in the next patch. Its not allowed to be strong anymore its just not. I really dont have fun changing Meta every patch i am not ready for that. I just want to play something and stick to it, obviously when something is actually fun to play and strong there is 99% chance of it getting nerfed.

BlakiepugJul 23, 20171 votes

{quoted}

It is just that everything that was VIABLE not broken but VIABLE Riot just nerfs. They are over buffing and over nerfing stuff. I am not going into details but just use your brain on this one. Whenever you feel like you are having fun , they nerf that thing. Since having fun means winning or killing bunch of dudes, feeling power in general it is bad, you should expect that thing nerfed in the next patch. Its not allowed to be strong anymore its just not. I really dont have fun changing Meta every patch i am not ready for that. I just want to play something and stick to it, obviously when something is actually fun to play and strong there is 99% chance of it getting nerfed.

Yeah, I agree. I especially felt this with the class reworks which were focused around "making a kit less toxic (?)" but one key thing they never considered when designing for these reworks was "how much fun is the new kit?" I feel like if Riot asked themselves that question more often, they would have an easier time balancing the game. It's why I have great respect for Fizz Enthusiast also since he is the only Rioter who I've ever seen consider a champion's "fun factor" as he calls it. :)

korg023Jul 24, 20172 votes

Exactly playing Talon before was maybe more toxic or bursty but it was like 100 times fun! Now delayed W and stupid 3 stack passive its just not fun, it is more balanced since it leaves more room for reaction of enemy but its not fun it never will be fun as Talon was before imo. We have more examples like this , Nidalee she was more fun before maybe since she was broken but to me she was fun to play that darts game with spear and not be forced to jump in like now. And list goes on and on. Everything that was fun in Riot words it was toxic, so we now have this "balanced" non toxic kits that are not near fun.

La BelloJul 22, 201723 votes

"I miss the days of AP Tristana mid, Blitz Jungle or Elise top"

the only thing that changed is people learned how to play the game. As people became better at league a META developped and the meta dictated and defined all the "correct" ways to play. People dont run Annie and Nasus top with Vayne mid and Blitzcrank + Alistar bot anymore because they UNDERSTAND that its bad.

Its asinine to say there are no Hybrid champions anymore because I promise you niche things like AP Tristana Varus Jax or full armor pen/crit JarvanIV works still. Aside from some few exceptions removed for balance reasons (AP Yi and Tryndamere) most of those older builds still work

"Now it's just "pick the highest tier champs and build the same 6 items as everyone else". It's all focused and balanced around the optimal build/style to be as competitive as you can."

nobody MAKES you build the "same 6 items everyone else's build" or "choose the same competitive champs" you just choose to do so because you subconsciously value winning over enjoying niche builds. Nobodys stopping you from going AD carry TriForce Blitz except yourself because you probably understand its not the most effective way to play or build him.

" but realistically most ADCs are all the same thing in a different skin"

yes because Jhin, Draven and Ezreal play the exact same as Lucian and Kalista right?

"ll mages do the same thing, with the same items"

this is mostly a season 2~3 problem back when champions were all churned out at a sporadic pace. Some mages overlap each other and dont have unique enough abilities unlike newer mages that have. Just look at Newer incarnations of champions such as Ryze who can now teleport his entire team, Taliyah who can create a gigantic wall AurelionSol who can create a literal base wide stun star Kindred who can defy death for her entire team.

The uniqueness of champions is much better now and champions have much more to offer I mean just look at how Rakan, Bard, Thresh and Ivern play compared to how Janna,Soraka and Sona are played. Riot has made leaps and bounds in discovering what makes champions enthralling to both play as and play against.

the games much better off now than it was before. You might just be a bit too jaded, burnt out on LoL at the moment so your'e most likely looking back on earlier season with rose tinted nostalgia googles. Another way of looking at it is that the only reason you miss things like DeathFireGrasp one shots, AP Yi or 80% dodge Chance Jax is because you no longer have to face it had these things still be in the game to this day the forums would be filled with complaints asking for said things to be nerfed or removed.

P.S

cheesy Item interactions can still be found in the game anyways if you really care to look for it. item 3053 multiple Sterak's stacking combined with item 3078 . item 3043 on multi hit champions like Syndra , item 3800 on Hecarim for that 200 AD bonus critboom, Rageblade item 3124 on Vayne MasterYi Irelia XinZhao , item 3075 and item 3146 on Rammus

LankPantsJul 22, 20179 votes

the only thing that changed is people learned how to play the game.

In the case of AP Trist and Elise top that's absolutely incorrect.

Trist's E used to be a fire and forget 100% AP DoT and dealt magic damage rather than physical and her R used to be a 150% AP ratio which was nerfed to 100% in her rework.

Elise's Q used to have a 60 mana cost at all ranks which was absolutely gutted to a 80/85/90/95/100 mana cost. I wonder how that could gut a champion out of the top lane.

People didn't just learn to play around these playstyles, they were removed out of viability by changes made to the champs.

cheesy Item interactions can still be found in the game anyways if you really care to look for it. Sterak's stacking with .

That's not even cheesy. It's core to Irelia's, Yorick's and Jax's builds. That's literally the main use for Sterak's Gauge at current since the shield decays to quickly to actually be useful.

La BelloJul 22, 20174 votes

no i mean as in LITERALLY stacking item 3053 4X

Steraks base damage increaser is not unique meaning you can get a massive amount of base AD (especially during the proc) and overcharge your TriForce procs.

Its very deadly on champions like Camille Aatrox Mordekaiser who have innately high Base AD/ Total AD ratios or can use Triforce very well.

LankPantsJul 22, 20178 votes

On the other hand it's also just ineffective. You get more damage by replacing a Gauge with a Titanic, you could also increase your burst more with a LW upgrade, a Cleaver or a Duskblade. There's simply mathematically superior builds, which was the point the OP was making.

daviidnavidadJul 22, 20172 votes

{quoted}

On the other hand it's also just ineffective. You get more damage by replacing a Gauge with a Titanic, you could also increase your burst more with a LW upgrade, a Cleaver or a Duskblade. There's simply mathematically superior builds, which was the point the OP was making.

That is what a meta is, I now task you to perfectly balance every build path on every champ so that I can play all of them for free however I want and they will all have exactly even power and if you cannot do it then I will complain about it on the boards.

Its harder than you think to balance all that, which makes for mathematically superior builds, the OP said that off meta builds are not viable anymore but they are, you can win with them, you just have to play well, because the math is against it, If there were not mathematically superior builds in S2-5 then you have a point, but I bet there have always been mathematically superior builds.

BALDG1VEN BOOMERJul 22, 201718 votes

RIP

CritPlank TankPlank SupportPlank APPlank ADPlank

Unreformed ShacoJul 22, 201711 votes

{quoted}

RIP

CritPlank TankPlank SupportPlank APPlank ADPlank

What about BankPlank? The richest of them all!

Great example though, he was a champ with so much diversity.. and now its the same 3 item rush as always.

DoYouEvenRift1Jul 22, 20177 votes

You forgot manahoy item 3070

PoskeJul 22, 20171 votes

All of those playstyles were trolling borderline trolling

Gangplank pre kegs was quite a troll pick

Wet DrymanJul 22, 20178 votes

If you had no idea what you do, yes. If you spent time to learn his limitations, build paths, teamcomps you pick him against or in he was a beast, he was even picked in proplay on some ocassions (mainly Bankplank build: at 25 minute he had 4 items completed and outstated every single opponent).

Other than that he was pretty popular in Korean Challenger tier before rework.

AlüeJul 22, 201715 votes

From my point of view things were going well until season 6 when they insisted upon the adc rework. From there we saw reworks of many subclasses that just became generalized and bland.

JRobin31Jul 22, 20174 votes

imo, I agree. The developer decision to focus on lumping champions into classes was a big danger sign. It may that RIOT reached a point where they weren't able to handle the number of champions they created (which, imo, appears to have occurred around the 100 champion mark). It's fine to continue to have more champions as long as you are actually capable of supporting them in the design space. The decision to design around classes was an indication of an inability to support all the champions created uniquely.

Sometimes, people think the players can't handle the quantity of champions, but that will never be true. The only problem in creating more champions is the capability of developers to properly support them. It's solely a design issue, not a player issue.

ModAcademy KaynJul 22, 20171 votes

I think Riot has realized this too, considering they're opting away from Class reworks, and focusing on individual gameplay changes per champion.

Sraeg2013Jul 22, 20172 votes

And yet we already have a teaser for another new champion.

ModAcademy KaynJul 22, 20172 votes

What's that have to do with anything about Class reworks.

ModCaptainMårvelousJul 22, 201711 votes

It's kind of ironic that you say "All characters build the same" but back in season 2 there were actual memes about "Metagolem" and how nearly every single melee champ (sans Assassins like Yi) built a combination of Mercs, Atmas, Warmogs, Frozen mallet and trinity force. Like...everyone did. Regardless of build, spec or whatever.

Also, 90% of the time if a substyle is reworked or removed, it existing was usually a pretty gross playstyle. AP Tryndamere or AP Yi might seem fun but man is it frustrating to be blown up by AP Tryn as he heals to full. Or AP Yi resetting off your entire team. Other times the playstyle is so small that why even bother. Your AP Caitlyn mention is pointless because who ever actually built AP Caitlyn unless you were purposefully handicapping yourself? Besides, the damage removal means power could be put elsewhere. AKA Headshots.

Sraeg2013Jul 22, 20172 votes

Your AP Caitlyn mention is pointless because who ever actually built AP Caitlyn unless you were purposefully handicapping yourself? Besides, the damage removal means power could be put elsewhere. AKA Headshots.

-_^

Removing AP scaling is always completely irrelevant for AD builds. I can't see how removing it would release some power budget in a champion kit.

ModCaptainMårvelousJul 22, 20174 votes

Because Caitlyn's traps went from dealing <x> magic damage with a small ratio to 0 damage.

Also, in the case of some old kits, the magic damage scaling is insanely huge (Malphite's ult has a 1.0 AP Ratio) which means gimmicky builds exist that are little more than one-shot machines if they get ahead. This doesn't account for certain builds (Such as some old Trist pro builds) which ran hybrid items like Guinsoos which give both AP and AD, making no stat wasted.

ColonyJul 23, 20173 votes

They buffed cait's headshots a tiny bit taking that magic damage out.... lol. They are changing stats because that is how the champ is meant to be played. Ap caitlyn has always been trash. All the hybrids weren't good besides in low elos because no one knew how to counter-build them. It's very simple riot is making the champs have more scaling on the way they're suppose to be played. This is a competitive game more then anything. If you don't realize that then you're screwed. :)

PimpStickNasusJul 22, 20175 votes

Step one: Get top Step two: Lock in Kled Step three: Choose one; ADC Kled, Lethality Kled, Tank Kled, Multiple juggernaut Kled builds, Bruiser Kled. Step four: Jhin Step five: Moral victory and prolly a win too

My point is you can build Kled as you wish

SohleksJul 23, 20175 votes

Maybe that's one reason I enjoy Teemo a lot. No matter what he doesn't give a shit about the meta. I'm pretty effective with Tryndamere jungle too and have a blast eventually 3 shoting peeps with unkite-able ghost + spins. Both are champions people commonly request changes too either because they hate playing against them or feel they have lost their place in the game. I selfishly don't fully agree and am weary what could happen to them in the future.

I tend to innovate and come up with something nice like ultra roam heavy Morgana mid. I actually picked boots of mobility first and from there theorycrafted who has the most "unstoppable" waveclear and punishing ganks. Morgana is ultimately the best answer however a few other work closely such as Zillean and Varus maybe before some of his changes. As dumb and simple as the playstyle is I love it because it's effective and it's mostly unique to me. There's something funny about a huge 3 second snare doing massive damage.

With recent mass class changes to champions and items these recent years the champion meta soil has been tiled a lot. Professionals looking for the next thing and casuals alike give these reworked champions another look. Champions I used to look at before their changes. Don't get me wrong I feel like a lot of changes have good intentions and usually go in an interesting direction. Overall though, either from conforming design choices or exposure + further conforming changes things tend to be homogenized to push the ideal meta role for each character.

I understand that the game today has a very defined meta but in order to make characters fit it feels like overtime it started to make characters all operate in a more similar way. Old old champions like Teemo or Tryndamere or Kayle or TF or Morgana or Veigar even Anivia. There's something very different about them. Compared to newer champions who are designed to MUST have potent waveclear or w/e in their role. And it's not like... new champions AREN'T unique. Plenty are. But idk.

I also feel a large problem comes from itemization. I feel like itemization going forward is gonna need some serious work to keep from stagnating. AP champions in particular had a poor round of itemization changes with the mage rework in my opinion. In fact we already had to stomp out Rylias and Gunblade a bit. It feels "dumb" to me how generically Morellos provides nearly every mage with a perfect dose of stats and it's only offset by temporarily passing on powerful defensive stat options. And there's no significant risky "glass" build anymore and building that way is rarely rewarded fairly. Also tank item balance [and % pen] has been a significant issue too. With tanks dominating the competitive meta game constantly even against the will of certain professional top laners [unless something else is massively broken GP/Jayce/Kennen/Fiora], and the same gank heavy assassin like junglers building into bruiser/tank constantly. Ranged mids roleplaying ap bruisers in certain metas. Defensive powers generally underrated/nerfed later. Offensive powers immediately nerfed and restrained. That whole pattern has been so long it itself is becoming the expected experience. We have lethality again now but I'm curious how long it'll last and if it can even compete against the standard mage and tank and ranged carry gameplay that's so cookie cutter in high level play.

CrettJul 22, 20174 votes

whats your opinion on the upcoming rune changes http://na.leagueoflegends.com/en/news/game-updates/features/coming-preseason-runes-reforged http://na.leagueoflegends.com/en/news/riot-games/editorial/runes-reforged-world-around-runes

TheWoollyMammothJul 22, 20177 votes

I for one. Am fairly hyped about rune changes. BUT, and this BUT is the size of Kimmy k's. I feel like riot is setting itself up for failure. I remember the balance overhauls that happened with mastery changes, and do not look forward to this upset to one of the games core unchanging staples (till now).

Runes have been almost exactly the same for years. You have the ones that are considered "useless" (time dead, spell vamp etc) but are bought and built by people who try to experiment and tweak their champs. Adding to game value. For example. I at one point had 6 rune pages, 4 of which were set up for different malzahar playstyles;

Spellvamp/mana regen/mixed pen/cdr (the Im'mortal page- my most used page),

standard ap runes (cause sometimes being special is bad).

AD,CDR,ARMR ("When Voidlings Attack" Ad malz page).

And last but not least, Full Magic pen (Feminist- literally nothing but Anti-Mr ....cause f*&^ galio...)

Anyone willing to try and gain an edge in game could look into those builds and try to craft up something that would be unexpected and powerful. But not broken enough to cause a major balance issue. Rolling spellvamp Quints and malz royally screwed his early game damage back in the day, in exchange for a little unexpected survivability. Thus, they were balanced.

For casual players, I'd say the coming changes will be an improvement. They spend less time trying to test and flex things then people who actually like to crush hours on one champ. Trying to figure out how much of a difference one or 2 different runes will change make in practice, not just on paper. I would not consider a rune or mastery change tested will I got 30 games on it. Assuming that each rift game lasts an average 29 minutes, That means I put roughly 870 minutes into testing a page change. (~14.5 hours of gameplay). And this is just for my staple pages, not testing to stuff I deemed crappy, like gold over time in mid lane. No casual will do that.

For Hardcore players, well, 5 keystones, across 3? trees? doesn't add the same amount variability as the runes we have right now. And even then, I'm not factoring in how a most likely higher percentage of keystones will be unusable for a champ.

As for balance, like earlier, runes may have added variability, but they did not have such a massive amount of power that they would threaten to make or break a champ. Like masteries did. (remember release DFT? Warlords? The meta itself warped for those damn keystones). With this change they are going to do the same thing cause riot never gets balance right at the start, unexpected interactions, and front loaded keystones will abound, tossing the game into a pit of chaos. This period is sure to get on my nerves.

That being said, I want to see what new things my champs will be able to do. Though it will cost stability, and most likely break yasuo, vayne, ekko and kalista. As such, I feel like I'm going to be disappointed in the grand scheme of things.

ChompyWulfJul 22, 20174 votes

Going to argue a bit. ADCs by nature of their role are often similar on big ways. Many use similar builds with perhaps one different item than half the other adcs. There is a little variation in abilities, but often what separates adcs is if they have mobility or not. I don't see a way to really fix this problem.

Mages however, are a highly diverse crowd. There are a couple items which are near ubiquitous for builds, but there is enough variety for them that is viable. While yes, there is a clear short list of "god tier" mages, even among that group they play very differently.

The other groups such as fighters, tanks, assassins, and supports do share similar playstyles within their class, but often have their own unique identity.

Oh, and yeah, hybrid damage champs are largely stamped out and it sucks.

CytheGuyJul 22, 20171 votes

Yes, but in a general sense all the mages are "sit in the back line and shoot stuff at the enemy team." Fighters are "dive through the enemy front line and say "Hey! I'm here now! What'cha gonna do? Oh wait your adc is dead now." Tanks are "I don't even remember what I have to do because I just stand there and take hits for the team." Assassins are "Yay the mid/adc/jg is dead! Time to go!" Supports are really the only diverse class. Sometimes it's "And you don't get to die and you don't get to die and you don't get to die..." And other times it's "Oh hello person-who-has-stepped-out-of-position, would you like to meet my team?" And there's also, "Boop. Boop. Boop. Boop, okay ADC go have fun with the half hp bot lane."

EDIT: Oh, I almost forgot about itemization! The variety in the different items is usually just down to "what unique passives does it have?" If you look at a game like Dota 2, there are so many different items out there. You've got a sword that makes you invisible, a suicide gem, a proper Zed ult that works with your team, and even several kinds of crown control on staves.

I QJul 22, 20172 votes

In what way? I don't really agree with you on this one.

Fighters can choose between diving into the enemy team for kills, or peeling a little while dealing out a little damage. They cab sometimes also choose to split and look for TP ganks so they can make cross map plays.

Tanks are there to soak up damage and peel, the idea that a tank just stands there is misguided. There tanks need to not only soak up damage, but they also need to build for the games situation (Which can be hard at times), and peel for the entire team. Some tanks are like Gragas where they can make plays to initiate, others are like Naut (top) and can be used to just peel.

Assassins can do many things, some like Ekko are mostly used for splitting, while others like Katarina can be used to teamfight, but honestly they both could choose to do either. Some like Talon or Zed look to try and catch someone out before a fight, kill thme, and start a 4v5. Also most assassins need to outplay the enemy team to do their job and assassinate someone, because of Exhaust, the supports, and the tanks trying to peel them off.

Supports are by no means the most diverse role, midlaners are by far the most diverse, because every midlaner has a job to do in a fight, and all of them are different in some aspects.

CytheGuyJul 22, 20171 votes

However, if you've been playing this game as long as us, then you get used to everything. Nothing new and exciting comes along. Everything you said is true, but it all becomes the norm for us who've already seen it all.

ChompyWulfJul 22, 20172 votes

You may feel like you've seen it all, but that doesn't make you right. Yes, at their core a champion type has general way to be played, but the kits each champ has makes them do it differently. Illaoi and Yasuo are both fighters, but each plays differently. Xin is another fighter and is different from both.

You and OP are confusing individual champions with their archetype. Hell, you don't even fully understand what Tanks do.

BisaknospJul 22, 20174 votes

yasuos release made the game less fun for me

deadlychuckJul 23, 20172 votes

So i heard you like URF?

Well here's a champion who is basically URF in normals. I don't see how that champion would possibly be hated or cause problems for the game!

Really yasuo suffers from a problem of too much influence when he's in a match. Suddenly the whole lane becomes about being against yasuo, not about playing your champion. And the majority of the match becomes centered around shutting out/down yasuo.

Fondling GemsJul 23, 20174 votes

I miss my random mix of AP and AD scalings. I know the day will come when the flags I drop on people no longer chunk them and it saddens me.

JarvanIV item 3285 item 3302 item 3151 item 3089 item 3165 item 3020 I am already prepared to say goodbye, just like how I said goodbye to mid lane AP WW.

aspects1Jul 23, 20173 votes

In pursuit of competition all the fun has been stomped out.

this is riot's problem

I Main SwainJul 22, 20172 votes

in some ways i feel the same. i miss the days when i could go into a game with ap blitz and ad crit thresh duo bot or my old favorite tanky top annie. theres just so little diversity anymore, and it seems like every attempt riot makes to increase diversity only makes it less diverse by them making things more specific and complex, like a lot of the new items, the jungle changes they started making after s3, and likely the new rune system i think.

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